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AT-5 Spandrel

 
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AT-5 Spandrel - 11/10/2016 7:24:10 PM   
MTTODD

 

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Hi,

Been playing 'Time to dance' as US forces and really enjoying it.

But sometimes myy M1(HA) get destroyed by AT-5 missiles, don't know if I was just unlucky but I expected them to be more resitant to this missile, as I thought it was an older type.

What is the percentage chance of an AT-5 destroying a M1(HA) frontally ?

Many thanks.

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RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/10/2016 7:38:12 PM   
CapnDarwin


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What range was the engagement and was it a fall out or a hard kill. My guess is that it's a fall out with a wrench on the M1. I bet a hard kill is possible, but very low odds. I can look closer this evening when I get home from work.

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We are at Origins 2019 this week with new Command Post Exercises.

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RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/10/2016 7:51:45 PM   
MTTODD

 

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It was 3 or 4 hexes, sorry did not check if hard kill or fallout.

I did not think range would matter for a heat warhead ?

Thanks for quick reply, appreciate your effort with this game.

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RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/10/2016 8:52:49 PM   
CapnDarwin


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Range at 1 hex or less could go flank and be a better kill shot. The ATGM is rated 44 (~660mm pen) versus the M1A1(HA) with PF of 41 (~615mm vs kinetic and 1100-1200mm versus HEAT). So a very small, couple percent, at best to kill 10-15% to fall out (rough guess).

_____________________________

We are at Origins 2019 this week with new Command Post Exercises.

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On Target Simulations LLC

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RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/10/2016 10:14:18 PM   
MTTODD

 

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I intend to play the senario again, will take note of what actually happens and send save file if it happens again.

Thanks for your help.

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RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/10/2016 10:32:29 PM   
CapnDarwin


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I have played that scenario a couple hundred times. One of my go to scenarios for testing or running demos. I've seen the AT-5 take out tanks but most are fall outs with the rare brew up.

_____________________________

We are at Origins 2019 this week with new Command Post Exercises.

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

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RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/10/2016 11:25:32 PM   
Stimpak


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An AT-5 is most likely to cause fall-outs on the M1A1 HA.

Mission kills can be scored by taking out the optics, treads, gun, and others.

Hard kills can be achieved simply by striking the side of the Abrams, at which point you can either kill the crew, strike the engine, or detonate the ammo which leaves the tank as little more than a rolling box.

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RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/11/2016 4:50:21 PM   
MTTODD

 

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So your definitely the person to ask regarding this scenario.

I also had an instance when 4 M1(HA) were destroyed or fallen at a range of 3 hexes in quick succession, by T80U using cannon fire.

I only question this, because previoulsy during the game the T80Us had struggled to destroy any M1(HA)s, so it came a a bit of a shock!

Do you think I was just very unlucky or it was to be expected.

Again it would be good to know the percentage chance of a kill in that engagement.








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RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/11/2016 5:36:29 PM   
CapnDarwin


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Expected. There was a bug the was tanking the shot accuracy of direct fire outside of effective range. Once you get inside 2000m both tanks can be taken out if hit by AP rounds. The 80u does get some AP reduction benefit from the ERA it has.

_____________________________

We are at Origins 2019 this week with new Command Post Exercises.

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On Target Simulations LLC

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RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/13/2016 4:08:45 PM   
MTTODD

 

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I assume that most of those kills would be against the hull, and not the turret (which is 600+ v kinetic ) ?

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RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/13/2016 4:41:04 PM   
CapnDarwin


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With the abstractions used we do not get into hull and turret hits and that's why we use a PF rating that is a combination of the frontal protections of the platform biased toward the turret being the most exposed item in general fighting and then we deal with adjustments based on the conditions of the moment (movement/cover/etc).

_____________________________

We are at Origins 2019 this week with new Command Post Exercises.

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to MTTODD)
Post #: 11
RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/13/2016 6:17:20 PM   
MTTODD

 

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So if I understand you correctly, then if it's the turret rating being used, then I am surprised that there would be kills between say 1500 to 2000 metres ?

I say this, because I did not think the 125mm gun could penetrate that much at that range ? (650mm for M1(HA) )

Thanks as always for your quick reply.




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Post #: 12
RE: AT-5 Spandrel - 11/13/2016 6:38:30 PM   
Stimpak


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It's dependent on the ammunition fired by the 125mm gun. A T-80U in 1989 for example would most likely be armed with 3BM-32 rounds, which have certified penetration of 500mm RHA. Since the Soviets prefer VF80 to VF50 however, this figure may be closer to 560mm. There are a number of areas on the M1A1HA that can be penetrated by this round, namely the turret ring, lower glacis, and gun mantle.

Even then, the T-80U can still achieve a soft kill by knocking out the optics, tracks, gun, etc. which have less protection than the frontal armor.

Likewise, the M829A1 equipping high-end US tanks in the late 80's could not defeat the Kontakt-5 armor found on the T-80U and T-72B obr. 1989 (T-72BM ingame), but the optics, tracks, etc. are still exposed on those tanks.

< Message edited by Stimpak -- 11/13/2016 11:59:21 PM >

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