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RE: Four Seasons with Models

 
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RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/1/2017 3:50:37 PM   
lion_of_judah


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those look awesome. are they ready for public use

< Message edited by lion_of_judah -- 12/1/2017 3:51:06 PM >

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 181
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/2/2017 4:47:24 AM   
Ormand


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

those look awesome. are they ready for public use


Yes, feel free to go ahead and use them. Just add an acknowledgement where they came from.

I suspect that this will go on until at least the end of February, what with some travel and the holidays.

The plan is to complete, probably in this order:

Chinese
Arab
African
Italian
Spanish
Scandinavian
Indian
Indonesian

which will cover the peoples I have in the mods. The goal is to get some 15-25 distinct leaders, although several will have the same base; probably it will be (4 bases)x(5 faces)=20. Some of these get to be a bit tricky as photos are hard to come by, which, as I will explain in the next post, I use for the base. So, some will wind up being a bit more modern that ww2. For example, I am thinking of Iraqi for Arab, and Nigerian for African. Mostly, it will depend on what I can find.

After these, I will contemplate:

Israeli
Vietnam
Poland

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 182
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/2/2017 5:14:17 AM   
Ormand


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

quote:

BTW, if anyone wants to be immortalized within their own ATG games, or be part of the released crowd of generals (unidentified), that might be possible.


Now THAT sounds really interesting :)

How about if you made a rendering of someone as an avatar for the forums :)


Hmm, now what would make you think of that?

There are some limits. First, I am not that good with making props for 3D models. I could probably do it. I got to be pretty good with Blender with the airplane models. It is a lot of work, and making clothes is not something I have tried and I think it is a fair amount of work. If someone would like to help out with that great. But, I think the learning curve might be more than I want to put into it.

Instead, I have been using a still photo as the base, and dropping a face from FaceGen into it. This works reasonably well since FaceGen also allows for some movement, i.e., turning the head etc. If not, then I would be using Poser or something. I looked into iClone, which looks OK, but I didn't like its capability to make a model from a photo (Crazytalk); I concluded that I preferred FaceGen for the faces.

For the base, I am using a "patented" process to colorize it. That's a joke of course. I am not sure if it is the best, but generally, I use a greyscale picture, and use this to "burn" and "dodge" monocolors underneath it. I think this process can be richer than using overlay. I also use the G'MIC-QT cartoon filter (with no black lines, and 256 colors) to make it slightly less photoTo generate a "real" face.-realistic

I then use faces generated with FaceGen 3.15, position them, render them, and drop them into the base picture. I also "cartoonize" these to remove the photo realistic aspect of the face.

So, this gives some limits, like hair. FaceGen doesn't give very many hair options. Actually, just the "bald" hair looks any good. This means that the base has to have a "hat". Although, I guess bald could work for some. And, the faces have to fit into the base, which is not that hard to do.

To generate a "real" face, I need mug shots. At the minimum frontal, but at least one side is useful. I can also deal with just a B&W photo, I figured out how to make a detailed texture with this that works fine. In the picture, hair has to be pulled away from the face; so no long-haired hippy freaks. While, I might be sympathetic to them, I won't make generals that way.

This sort of works. It will generate a model that is not bad, even close. But, often there are some slight differences that in the end make you wonder if it is that person. This got me into thinking about facial recognition. While I can see a mathematical relationship between parts of the face that could be treated as a finger print, in the end, I think we recognize people at a deeper level that involves shape, hair, skin texture, etc. So, it can be a bit of hit an miss with the model. Plus, the side can be useful to define the shape a bit better. What is funny is that when looking at the faces, if I look at sub-segments, they can each look OK. But, together, the combined face can be off in ways that are very hard to describe.

So, front and side mugshots and which uniform base is what I need to give it a try.


(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 183
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/2/2017 8:12:27 AM   
Ormand


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Made some changes to Japanese generals. I added five new generals with a different cap, and modified some to be Marshals. See replaced jpg above. I didn't change the version number.

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 184
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/2/2017 8:44:59 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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Joined: 9/15/2009
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quote:

So, front and side mugshots and which uniform base is what I need to give it a try.


Oh I never imagined anything else :) But right after I posted, I remembered that you didn't do hair all that well. So I guess the same goes for a beard ;)

And thanks for the long but great explanation. I had a similar experience when using FaceGen for the faces in the 2nd Civil War...

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 185
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/2/2017 1:15:29 PM   
LJBurstyn

 

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Not sure which version I got...1.33 or mod 1.33?

Anyway German General 22 is missing.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 186
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/2/2017 1:50:59 PM   
lion_of_judah


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question: where can we download these from, just the officers.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 187
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/2/2017 4:24:33 PM   
Ormand


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UGH! The picture is there, but the stringlist has an error in that the dot between 22 and png is missing. I fixed this in the uploaded version v1.1.33.a. However, I don't have time to change the version number in each of the files, it will still say v1.1.33 for the at2 files and when you start. The atzip file should have 1.1.33.a (sorry, but I have to change it in three places in the at2 file, and I have four of them to do).

(in reply to LJBurstyn)
Post #: 188
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/2/2017 4:28:29 PM   
Ormand


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

question: where can we download these from, just the officers.


And here, I was trying to push my mod on everyone!

I created a separate scenario on the site called "Generals Project". This will expand the pictures into "ATG"/Graphics/GeneralsProject, where ATG is the standard ATG directory. Currently, there are pictures for six peoples: American, British, French, German, Japanese, and Russian.

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 189
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/2/2017 4:36:20 PM   
Ormand


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Joined: 2/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

quote:

So, front and side mugshots and which uniform base is what I need to give it a try.


Oh I never imagined anything else :) But right after I posted, I remembered that you didn't do hair all that well. So I guess the same goes for a beard ;)

And thanks for the long but great explanation. I had a similar experience when using FaceGen for the faces in the 2nd Civil War...


Hair is hard because the props in FaceGen are not that good. Which was a reason for thinking about iClone or Poser, but it will take longer, and I would have to spend much more time learning stuff that I don't need for this particular project. I haven't figured out how to make "model sets" for FaceGen, and I would probably have to buy the $1000 version, which is way more than I want to invest just to play around.

Same would go for long beards. Scruffy facial hair, like a mustache, goatee, could probably be done with FaceGen on a photo. It takes these features and puts it into a "detailed texture" file. These can be used to add and subtract from the "standard" face. Although, in the photo mode, it actually covers the face. I have figured out how to edit that file, but it is a bit tricky, and creating one from scratch is not so easy as it has to look good in the final product. But, I think facial hair that is on the face can be done. I long beard or a long mustache would require an object, which I don't know how to make, and is probably more work than I want to do just now.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 190
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/2/2017 5:10:02 PM   
Ormand


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For example, the mustache on Guderian is in the texture, not a prop.

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 191
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/2/2017 5:23:09 PM   
lion_of_judah


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looking forward to the Indian officers, and hoping you make Israeli and Arab officers as well.

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Post #: 192
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/15/2017 2:30:39 AM   
Ormand


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Made a new version v1.1.34 with Chinese officers. This required a reorganization that I didn't expect. The original file eclipsed the 25 MB limit with some 11 MB for the pictures of the generals. Since lion_of_judah wanted the pictures (without 4Seasons files), I had made a separate "mod" called the GeneralsProject. Given that there are about 1.3 MB per people, and this will grow still, I had to accept using this file as the core for the generals pictures. Therefore, in future updates for 4Seasons, there will likely be a parallel update to the GeneralsProject, and will be a required simultaneous installations. Currently, GeneralsProject-v1.7 is the latest, and is required. The portrait pictures will be moved to "ATG-DIRECTORY"/graphics/GeneralsProject/faces/"people"

Chinese portraits:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Ormand -- 12/15/2017 2:34:31 AM >

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 193
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/15/2017 2:40:12 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: online
Very nice picrures! Seems you chose the Nationalist officers over making any for the Communist Chinese. Probably a good choice, not for political reasons, but for the uniforms. Not sure how the Communist Chinese uniforms would look like, or indeed if they had any.

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 194
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/15/2017 5:10:39 AM   
Ormand


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Thanks!

These were harder than I thought they would be. The first 20 are based on the National Revolutionary Army, which is essentially the nationalists, although apparently, they did sort of share ranks, etc. The last ten are based on communist generals. Pictures 13-20 are based on a photo of Chaing Kai Shek. The other nationalists are from some screen captures from a Chinese movie on the battle of Changde. The communists are based on screen captures from a Chinese movie about the Eighth Route Army, which focused on Zhu De and Peng Dehuai. According to that completely reliable source Wikipedia, the Eighth Route Army was part of the National Revolutionary Army, and wore their uniforms. Whether these are entirely accurate uniforms, I am not sure. But, photos seem to indicate the communists had very simple uniforms, and not much in the way of insignia. I am not sure if they had the pin on the cap or not. They are in the movie, so I took them. I found the movies looking around the internet trying to find some Japanese pictures, although in the end, I didn't use any for that purpose. The Japanese and Chinese pictures were hard because there just aren't that many decent photos of either. I think most of the Japanese generals died in the field and their photographic records were lost. In China, well, there weren't that many journalists and just a few photos. In addition, it does seem that there was a uniform change after 1947 during the civil war.

So far, the two easiest have been the US and Germany.

< Message edited by Ormand -- 12/15/2017 6:19:17 AM >

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 195
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/15/2017 2:21:04 PM   
lion_of_judah


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Ormand
you did not have to go to all that trouble, but it is greatly appreciated that you did. I find the officers which you made fantastic. Stupid question, but I must ask. I'm assuming we assign names to these generals when we put them into our scenario, or just leave them as is. I ask because you made them and so we should ask if we are going to edit them in any way. Thanks

< Message edited by lion_of_judah -- 12/15/2017 2:24:33 PM >

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 196
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/15/2017 3:02:42 PM   
Ormand


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lion_of_judah:

Well, I wanted them to be used, and in the end, I was forced to split the faces off due to file size. This crept up on me unexpected, and it wasn't until it failed to upload twice that I noticed the 4Seasons at2 file was > 25 MB. So, it was a good way to move forward.

The main goal was to use them as replacements within random games, where they get a name assigned to them. But, I was also thinking of them as being used in scenarios. I was also trying to get some historical faces as well that you can pop in and use. But these tend to be more time consuming, and will be slow to make.

But, as for using them. Go ahead and use them as you like. It would be nice to have just a little line in the scenario description where they came from. But, go ahead and use them for your scenarios if you want and as you like.

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 197
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/16/2017 1:22:30 AM   
Ormand


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To be explicitly clear, feel free to copy them into your scenario file instead of forcing a required link or anything. Just put a line in your scenario description saying where they came from.

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 198
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/18/2017 6:49:12 AM   
Ormand


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I uploaded v1.1.35 for Four Seasons and v1.8 for Generals Project.

I added pictures for Arab generals. Again, I am surprised by the lack of quality photos.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 199
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/19/2017 4:46:58 AM   
Ormand


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Created a small Graphics Patch for Four Seasons. Thanks to ernieschwitz for pointing out an issue with one edge graphics for high mountain terrains. I didn't notice this before because in most random games, high mountain terrains are surrounded by low mountains, and it is less visible in that case. It doesn't fix a critical problem, just an aesthetic problem for all high mountain edge graphics with the three edges. Instead of including it in the at2 files, which doesn't make sense as there are no changes to the at2 files, I made it a separate patch, will can also serve for any future graphics patches to the main package, which I can't update as it is much larger than the usual update. The fix is for a problem illustrated in this graphic. (edit) Note that he used DC graphics for the roads/rail. I thought about this, but it is not mine, so I didn't feel comfortable using them.







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Ormand -- 12/19/2017 4:52:58 AM >

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Post #: 200
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/19/2017 5:02:13 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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From: Denmark
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Thanks for that Ormand. If I might add the DC road graphics, and rail are available to all ATG players, in an official patch to ATG (meaning if you are fully updated you have them). They are located in the alt graphics folder.

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 201
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/22/2017 3:31:04 PM   
lion_of_judah


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any plans on making Indian, Israeli and other nations generals

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Post #: 202
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/24/2017 8:58:42 AM   
Ormand


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Yes. I am planning to create generals for all the peoples I introduced in the mods, plus some. It will take a little while. It is about 1 week/people. I am on vacation until 1/9 when I'll start again. I had trouble finding decent photos for Israeli generals as well. I am surprised how difficult it is to find good pictures. If you have access to some, that would help. Mostly, I need photos of reasonable resolution, wearing headgear, and hopefully a closed neck, but I could try an open shirt for once. The trick would be in matching the head and the skin up. But, I do plan to continue with generals for African, Indian, Italian, Spanish, Scandinavian, and Indonesia. And, as a bonus, Israel. The timeline for completion is probably around the end of February or early March, and I don't know what order yet.

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 203
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 12/24/2017 1:27:37 PM   
lion_of_judah


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I have Israeli officers but they do not have headgear. It is very hard to find them with any. I do have Indian officers and they do have headgear. Shoot me an email and I'll send them to you. You can send it to fparrish64 at outlook.com

< Message edited by lion_of_judah -- 12/30/2017 1:41:25 AM >

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Post #: 204
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 1/3/2018 3:55:02 PM   
LJBurstyn

 

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Not sure this is the place to mention this:

Have officers getting promotions but name is missing. Same officer's names are missing when they activate a feature.
Most Officers who are injured are not listed as wounded (only 1 of 7 had message saying officer was wounded).

Some of my units that are in full supply and are in clear weather hexes are grayed out for movement??

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 205
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 1/4/2018 10:48:23 AM   
Ormand


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Joined: 2/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LJBurstyn

Have officers getting promotions but name is missing. Same officer's names are missing when they activate a feature.
Most Officers who are injured are not listed as wounded (only 1 of 7 had message saying officer was wounded).


This will probably take some research on my part. I am not sure what could be going on here. In principle, I have taken this all from ANewdawn, and should be identical unless I made a change of some sort. Could you send the game? Can it perchance be edited?

quote:



Some of my units that are in full supply and are in clear weather hexes are grayed out for movement??


This is likely due to a sub formation in the unit not having enough action points to move a single hex. I saw this in a game I had except the unit was out of supply, and most likely had lost sufficient readiness to not be able to move a mountain hex. The same could be going on here, for example, an artillery unit that got moved into a "forbidden" hex because it had transport, which then was a casualty. Again, it would be good to see the game.

I am also in the midst of some tweaks. I am aware that the regiments at2 file has a problem with the heavy artillery (which was fixed and got broken again). I am tweaking some movements and some SFT values based on some play testing. I should have an updated version next week. I am still sort of on vacation actually.

(in reply to LJBurstyn)
Post #: 206
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 1/5/2018 1:34:31 PM   
LJBurstyn

 

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I sent you a copy via email. I don't want to interrupt your vacation so I can wait. Again I am having problems uploading stuff....very aggravating. Thinking seriously about going to another ISP but have no idea as to whom services this remote area with fast ISP.

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 207
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