In Old Grudges Never Die, there are the 'USA' and 'Coalition' Intervenes triggers - how are they different from what the USA/Coalition does already (when the human is Turkey)? It looks like the triggers activate strike/AAW missions, but these countries already strike targets in Syria and fight with the Russians.
I've just finished a game, and the vast majority of the fighting was done by the USA/Coalition, but I don't think they ever intervened 'officially' (I didn't receive a message).
I was just wondering because every game so far has ended with the USA and Coalition going full gung-ho, while I try to keep things under control - I wondered what it looked like when they really intervened!
Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
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ColonelMolerat
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:36 am
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
Morning Colonel!
I am away from the game for the next couple weeks but from what I recall:
-USA & Coalition are two different sides and will act independently but they are allies so share info and threats etc
-Both are conducting Strike missions against various insurgent targets from scenario start and its designed so the Russian player has to watch what he is doing very closely or they will feel 'threatened' and could go hostile.
-As the situation heats up (tracked on a separate counter, cannot recall the details) they will 'Intervene' by setting up more aggressive CAP and recalling any ongoing strike missions. That should be it, they don't go hostile unless they already are at that posture.
-When/if they go hostile there are no additional strike missions, they will just start shooting Russians.
The Turks on the other hand have several mechanisms to go hostile.
-When the 'Russian Strategic' side launches the cruise missiles which violate Turkish airspace
-At several points based on the escalation counter there is a chance that they will go hostile
-There are a series of messages indicating the level of the escalation counter and when it reaches a certain point - they will go hostile.
-There is a separate strike mission which initiates when the Turks go hostile I think.
Hope that helps.
B
I am away from the game for the next couple weeks but from what I recall:
-USA & Coalition are two different sides and will act independently but they are allies so share info and threats etc
-Both are conducting Strike missions against various insurgent targets from scenario start and its designed so the Russian player has to watch what he is doing very closely or they will feel 'threatened' and could go hostile.
-As the situation heats up (tracked on a separate counter, cannot recall the details) they will 'Intervene' by setting up more aggressive CAP and recalling any ongoing strike missions. That should be it, they don't go hostile unless they already are at that posture.
-When/if they go hostile there are no additional strike missions, they will just start shooting Russians.
The Turks on the other hand have several mechanisms to go hostile.
-When the 'Russian Strategic' side launches the cruise missiles which violate Turkish airspace
-At several points based on the escalation counter there is a chance that they will go hostile
-There are a series of messages indicating the level of the escalation counter and when it reaches a certain point - they will go hostile.
-There is a separate strike mission which initiates when the Turks go hostile I think.
Hope that helps.
B
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ColonelMolerat
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RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
Morning!
Interesting - I had assumed it would be something like that, but I've run this mission about six or seven times so far and this has happened all but once:
If I just run the mission without doing anything (playing as the Turks), a Russian jet takes off, flies to the Azaz crossing and fires at it. This makes the Russians hostile, and an American jet in the area opens fire on the Russians. From here it is open season - US and Coalition forces fight with the Russians for the rest of the mission.
Basically, the US/Coalition and the Russians always fight from within the first ten minutes.
Here's a link to a mission recording if you want to see what I mean when you're back to the game:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-bkd ... i1jT2d6blE
Interesting - I had assumed it would be something like that, but I've run this mission about six or seven times so far and this has happened all but once:
If I just run the mission without doing anything (playing as the Turks), a Russian jet takes off, flies to the Azaz crossing and fires at it. This makes the Russians hostile, and an American jet in the area opens fire on the Russians. From here it is open season - US and Coalition forces fight with the Russians for the rest of the mission.
Basically, the US/Coalition and the Russians always fight from within the first ten minutes.
Here's a link to a mission recording if you want to see what I mean when you're back to the game:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-bkd ... i1jT2d6blE
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
How did it go when you played as the Russians regarding when the US/Turks/Coalition turned hostile?ORIGINAL: ColonelMolerat
Morning!
Interesting - I had assumed it would be something like that, but I've run this mission about six or seven times so far and this has happened all but once:
If I just run the mission without doing anything (playing as the Turks), a Russian jet takes off, flies to the Azaz crossing and fires at it. This makes the Russians hostile, and an American jet in the area opens fire on the Russians. From here it is open season - US and Coalition forces fight with the Russians for the rest of the mission.
Basically, the US/Coalition and the Russians always fight from within the first ten minutes.
Here's a link to a mission recording if you want to see what I mean when you're back to the game:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-bkd ... i1jT2d6blE
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ColonelMolerat
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:36 am
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
I can't remember my last full playthrough, but I just ran the first few minutes of Russia the same way as the AI does:
Launched a Fencer D with an AS-10 Karen from Khmeimim Airbase.
Told it to attack the Azaz Crossing, at afterburner speed (so it would get there and fire in full view of the US jet).
As soon as my (Russian) jet fired on the Azaz Crossing, the US Jet attacked it. (Also, a Harpoon destroyed my AGI Ship, but I wasn't paying attention to the sea).
Edit:
Actually, the other US forces have remained neutral (only the jet that shot me down became 'hostile'.
The Coalition have remained netural. The Turks have remained unfriendly.
2nd Edit:
I just repeated that, and the US jet fired upon the Russian jet that attacked the Azaz crossing (it was then automatically marked hostile and destroyed by my S400). They then launched two more planes from Incirlik that were automatically marked hostile and shot down by the S400. Some more US jets in the East of Syria have just opened fire on me and are also hostile.
The only action I took was to destroy the Azaz crossing, then fly in circles in Syria, though my S400 automatically fired on any hostile planes.
Oh! And now the Coalition have turned hostile. This is at 1h20mins into the mission.
A third and fourth repetition have the same thing happening - jet that attacks the Azaz crossing is shot down by the US, my AGI is sunk by something firing missiles (a sub or ship?). The rest of the US forces remain neutral, however (and start shadowing my jets, flying right behind them).
Out of these three playthroughs, it seems like playing as the Russians escalates pretty normally (apart from maybe the US firing as soon as I attack the Azaz crossing? But they back down again after that).
Last edit, I promise:
Just ran it again twice as Turkey.
I took no action - the Russians attacked Azaz, the US shot them down, then anything US was attacked by the Russians. The Coalition remained neutral a bit longer, but became hostile after about an hour. This seems to happen practically every time.
Launched a Fencer D with an AS-10 Karen from Khmeimim Airbase.
Told it to attack the Azaz Crossing, at afterburner speed (so it would get there and fire in full view of the US jet).
As soon as my (Russian) jet fired on the Azaz Crossing, the US Jet attacked it. (Also, a Harpoon destroyed my AGI Ship, but I wasn't paying attention to the sea).
Edit:
Actually, the other US forces have remained neutral (only the jet that shot me down became 'hostile'.
The Coalition have remained netural. The Turks have remained unfriendly.
2nd Edit:
I just repeated that, and the US jet fired upon the Russian jet that attacked the Azaz crossing (it was then automatically marked hostile and destroyed by my S400). They then launched two more planes from Incirlik that were automatically marked hostile and shot down by the S400. Some more US jets in the East of Syria have just opened fire on me and are also hostile.
The only action I took was to destroy the Azaz crossing, then fly in circles in Syria, though my S400 automatically fired on any hostile planes.
Oh! And now the Coalition have turned hostile. This is at 1h20mins into the mission.
A third and fourth repetition have the same thing happening - jet that attacks the Azaz crossing is shot down by the US, my AGI is sunk by something firing missiles (a sub or ship?). The rest of the US forces remain neutral, however (and start shadowing my jets, flying right behind them).
Out of these three playthroughs, it seems like playing as the Russians escalates pretty normally (apart from maybe the US firing as soon as I attack the Azaz crossing? But they back down again after that).
Last edit, I promise:
Just ran it again twice as Turkey.
I took no action - the Russians attacked Azaz, the US shot them down, then anything US was attacked by the Russians. The Coalition remained neutral a bit longer, but became hostile after about an hour. This seems to happen practically every time.
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
It played out differently for me. I didnt attack the Azaz crossing at first, those two Fencers with AS-10's i used to strike the ISIS oil wells East of Aleppo. I wanted to strike the targets that would come with the least chance of an escalation with any of the other players. Striking the Azaz crossing would most likely get reaction from Turkey as they're supporting the Army Of Conquest. Striking the FSA oil wells would most likely get a reaction from any of the players as they're all supporting them. Striking the ISIS oil wells in the SE (Deir ez-Zor) would likely get a reaction from the US as they are their prime targets (states this in the briefing). Also the Manjib Refinery and nearby oil wells were near the Turkish border, so i decided to strike the targets in order of least likely to antagonize the other players.
It seemed to work at least for about the first 4 hours of the scenario, and now we're hostile with everyone. I think its inevitable that hostilities will break out with them, it just seems way too hard in avoiding it...but the thing is the other players do strike the same targets you have, and when they do you get points so really you wouldnt even need to strike anything, which defeats of the object of the game imo. Maybe Gunner98 should have it so only points are awarded for targets struck by your side?
Last update on my scenario and one my subs sunk a French frigate South of Cyprus, i lost my other sub to a torpedo from the HMS Ambush but torpedoes fired from my sub managed to sink it too. My ASW chopper from the cruiser sunk a Turkish SSK which i was awared 100 points for. So it seems no points are awarded for taking out US/Coalition forces but you do get points for hitting the Turks. Makes sense seeing as they're the main enemy that start as unfriendly (although became hostile last out of all the players). So now i'm planning a night time SEAD patrol with ARM missiles on Su-25s at a Turkish radar site close to the border, just a quick shoot and scoot before F-16's intercept them, should get me a few points.
Btw the most likely ship that sunk your AGI was either the Turkish perry class (upgraded) frigate that is patrolling around North of Cyprus, or a RN Type 45 destroyer patrolling around same area. Both have Harpoons.
It seemed to work at least for about the first 4 hours of the scenario, and now we're hostile with everyone. I think its inevitable that hostilities will break out with them, it just seems way too hard in avoiding it...but the thing is the other players do strike the same targets you have, and when they do you get points so really you wouldnt even need to strike anything, which defeats of the object of the game imo. Maybe Gunner98 should have it so only points are awarded for targets struck by your side?
Last update on my scenario and one my subs sunk a French frigate South of Cyprus, i lost my other sub to a torpedo from the HMS Ambush but torpedoes fired from my sub managed to sink it too. My ASW chopper from the cruiser sunk a Turkish SSK which i was awared 100 points for. So it seems no points are awarded for taking out US/Coalition forces but you do get points for hitting the Turks. Makes sense seeing as they're the main enemy that start as unfriendly (although became hostile last out of all the players). So now i'm planning a night time SEAD patrol with ARM missiles on Su-25s at a Turkish radar site close to the border, just a quick shoot and scoot before F-16's intercept them, should get me a few points.
Btw the most likely ship that sunk your AGI was either the Turkish perry class (upgraded) frigate that is patrolling around North of Cyprus, or a RN Type 45 destroyer patrolling around same area. Both have Harpoons.
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ColonelMolerat
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- Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:36 am
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
Yeah, I probably would have done things differently, but I wanted to do the same as the AI does when it plays Russia, to see if things escalate differently (as it happens, they seem to - when a human plays as Russia, it seems less likely that full-scale Russia/US/Coalition conflict will break out so early. A couple of US jets go hostile, but the rest of the US side remains neutral. When Turkey is played by a human, the US goes hostile as soon as the Azaz crossing is destroyed, then the Coalition join in shortly after.)
I'm tempted to try a playthrough as Russia, doing things my way, but I've put a lot of time into this scenario over the last couple of days and fancy a change!
Didn't your scenario end as soon as you sunk the frigate? I thought a big ship sinking was the cue for the 'International Community Steps In' event.
Does night-time make much of a difference to a SEAD attack? I'd assumed that since most detection was done by radars, it wouldn't help out much.
I'm tempted to try a playthrough as Russia, doing things my way, but I've put a lot of time into this scenario over the last couple of days and fancy a change!
Didn't your scenario end as soon as you sunk the frigate? I thought a big ship sinking was the cue for the 'International Community Steps In' event.
Does night-time make much of a difference to a SEAD attack? I'd assumed that since most detection was done by radars, it wouldn't help out much.
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
Scenario is still running and in terms of naval losses i lost a sub and the AGI, the Coalition lost a sub and so did the Turks plus the Coalition also lost a frigate but the Turks/Coalition and US combined naval power is still much greater.
Yea you're right night time doesnt make a difference for SEAD i just said a night time raid as thats when my a/c will be ready with their ARM's.
Yea you're right night time doesnt make a difference for SEAD i just said a night time raid as thats when my a/c will be ready with their ARM's.
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ColonelMolerat
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:36 am
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
Was just running through a quick test again as Turkey and found something interesting - if I don't get involved, Russia and the US get into a mighty scrap, and because the US/Turkey share information Russia gets marked hostile to me.
This means that my units automatically fire on the Russians. However, if I set WRA to hold, the Russians aren't actually hostile to me - they won't fire on my units. They're just marked hostile because of the Americans.
This puts an interesting spin on things I hadn't realised. The US/Russians always get into a huge fight that ends with someone sinking another's ship, and the mission ending. However, I can avoid joining in and sneak around the sidelines if I don't want to help the Americans out (at least, until I do something to annoy the Russians). Every time a Russian unit fires on an American one, they'll be marked hostile, so I've got to pay attention not to accidentally allow one of my units to fire on them, but it's possible.
This makes this scenario a choice between playing as Russia, and managing the escalation between yoursef and the US, and playing as Turkey, and navigating your way around a war that is escalating separately between the US/Russia (and maybe escalating it yourself!). It's a more asymmetric setup than I realised, very interesting!
Now, I've dissected this mission so much I need a break from Syria! I'm going to find a small mission I can play slowly and with research - try and teach myself some patience!
This means that my units automatically fire on the Russians. However, if I set WRA to hold, the Russians aren't actually hostile to me - they won't fire on my units. They're just marked hostile because of the Americans.
This puts an interesting spin on things I hadn't realised. The US/Russians always get into a huge fight that ends with someone sinking another's ship, and the mission ending. However, I can avoid joining in and sneak around the sidelines if I don't want to help the Americans out (at least, until I do something to annoy the Russians). Every time a Russian unit fires on an American one, they'll be marked hostile, so I've got to pay attention not to accidentally allow one of my units to fire on them, but it's possible.
This makes this scenario a choice between playing as Russia, and managing the escalation between yoursef and the US, and playing as Turkey, and navigating your way around a war that is escalating separately between the US/Russia (and maybe escalating it yourself!). It's a more asymmetric setup than I realised, very interesting!
Now, I've dissected this mission so much I need a break from Syria! I'm going to find a small mission I can play slowly and with research - try and teach myself some patience!
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
Just finished as the Russians and got a score of 128- Average. Each a/c i lost, i was deducted a point and got deducted 25 points for losing a sub but dont think i was deducted any points for losing the AGI. No points for US/Coalition units destroyed only for ISIS/FSA and Turkish units/targets. Only Turkish unit destroyed was a sub but that got me 100 points, so that was a very good kill being awarded that much. Thing is if i hadnt got that sub i would have finished on 28 points and thats still classed as average. Will be coming back to this scenario again at some point.
Scenario finished with the international community stepping in with 19 hours of the scenario still to go.
Scenario finished with the international community stepping in with 19 hours of the scenario still to go.
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ColonelMolerat
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:36 am
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
Well done! Shame you didn't get points for the US/Coalition units.
I'm about to try 'The Shark' as India. It's a 1971 Pakistan vs India sub vs ships mission that, so far, has had me polishing up on my geopolitics on Wikipedia!
I've also read the Wikipedia entries for the units, but am not sure how much I should get to know in preparation. I've read about the armaments and top speeds of the units involved, but not sure if I should go into more detail...
I'm about to try 'The Shark' as India. It's a 1971 Pakistan vs India sub vs ships mission that, so far, has had me polishing up on my geopolitics on Wikipedia!
I've also read the Wikipedia entries for the units, but am not sure how much I should get to know in preparation. I've read about the armaments and top speeds of the units involved, but not sure if I should go into more detail...
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
Interesting i didnt know about this war. I just looked it up myself on Wikipedia and read about the INS Khukri that was sunk by the Pakistani sub Hangor. I've decided to now play this scenario myself! a much less complex scenario than the last one i done with only having to command just a sub. I'm going to play as Pakistan, see if i can defy history by sinking both Indian Frigates.ORIGINAL: ColonelMolerat
Well done! Shame you didn't get points for the US/Coalition units.
I'm about to try 'The Shark' as India. It's a 1971 Pakistan vs India sub vs ships mission that, so far, has had me polishing up on my geopolitics on Wikipedia!
I've also read the Wikipedia entries for the units, but am not sure how much I should get to know in preparation. I've read about the armaments and top speeds of the units involved, but not sure if I should go into more detail...
Playing the scenario now and the Indians have Sea King Mk42 ASW choppers. It doesnt mention the Indians having these during the battle which sunk the INS Khukri on Wikipedia. I can understand though why these have been included, the two Indian Frigates dont stand much chance against the Pakistani sub, although they do have a much quicker top speed.
Just completed the scenario and sunk both Frigates but had some scary moments where my sub just managed to evade two torpedoes from the Sea Kings. The first Frigate i sunk was the Kirpan i initially picked it up as SKUNK #10 with my acoustic intercept as it was active with its sonar so i started to close on it. I was at periscope depth tracking it after it went passive with its sonar (which i thought was odd) wanting to get closer before firing my torps and just after i fired them it must have seen me as it then turned and run, switching its sonar back to active though it kept changing course. This slowed it down, it could have easily outrun my torps but i think its sonar being so old and bad couldnt get a fix on where exactly they were or their heading. Soon after the Frigate turned and ran an ASW chopper came flying over which i spotted and it must have seen my periscope...out dropped from it a torpedo and i thought, oh well...but it lost track of me. Lucky escape it seemed and one of my torps hit and sunk the Kirpan.
Not long after this i lost contact with the active sonars of the ASW choppers so came back up to periscope depth to recharge my batteries but bad mistake, one chopper was lurking and spotted me. Thought i couldnt shake off another torpedo surely, but when it dropped it, it lost me again. This time decided to stay as deep as possible till my battery ran out and changed course to head for the active sonar of another skunk (had to be and was the Khukri) that was picked up to the NW. No more bogeys picked up so thought those choppers must have RTB'd...the Khukri was now a sitting duck, pretty much. Roughly 3nm out came up to pericope depth and spotted it, got to 1.1nm away creep speed (it still hadnt spotted me) and fired four torps. I had positively ID's it and it never spotted me, its sonar active the whole time never heard my torps. First one missed, second hit home and scenario concluded.
After this i saved and loaded back up in the editor, switching to Indian side. Sure enough i was right, those two choppers had RTB'd with another two on their way to the patrol area replacing them. I wondered why the first Frigate spotted me and the second one didnt and i thought it must have been my speed. For the first one i was going at flank speed so my periscope would have caused more of a wake on the sea- so easier to spot. The second one i was going at creep and it never spotted me.
Good fun this small scenario, glad you brought it up Colonel. Should be more of a challenge playing as the Indians.
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ColonelMolerat
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:36 am
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
I've just finished my second run-through of this campaign myself!
I first played as India. I can' remember it exactly, but I had one ship run slowly through the patrol area with sonar on, while the other zig-zagged across its path at a higher speed.
Meanwhile, the helos used their sonar ahead of the ships, with occasional trips further out into the patrol area.
While the helos were refuelling, the fast ship got hit and went down. The slow one sped up to the location and started a patrol around the area. At this point the new helos had arrived, and they started using their sonar at the edges of where I expected the sub to be.
The last remaining ship then picked up the sub on active sonar to the starboard, and very quickly discovered it was practically sitting on it! It fired the ASW mortars and destroyed the sub, but suffered from minor (20%) damage itself, they were so close! I'm not sure why the sub didn't open fire - perhaps I just got lucky?
I've also just now finished playing as Pakistan. It was a fairly uneventful mission - I patrolled the area at maximum depth, 2kts, until I detected a helicopter's sonar. At this point I slowed to 1kt and headed straight at the helo, to minimise my sonar return. This seemed to work, and I kept heading towards each new helicopter detection I picked up.
Eventually, I got a return for a ship and headed straight for it (again, 1kt, max depth - scraping the sea floor). When more than close enough to fire I fired three torpedos on a spread bearing-only-launch. and sneaked off at an angle, still going slow and deep, since I didn't think I'd been detected. At this point, I got distracted reading about subs and missed the result, but I sank the first Indian ship.
The second went down exactly the same way, but I watched the torps hit - the spread was perfect, each torpedo's sonar slightly overlapping the one next to it. The middle and right torpedo both locked on to the ship, and the first missed, but the second was a hit, and got me the victory.
A nice, relaxing mission - good for a break from too much planning, and with just a couple of assets to read about and an interesting geopolitical situation to learn about.
I first played as India. I can' remember it exactly, but I had one ship run slowly through the patrol area with sonar on, while the other zig-zagged across its path at a higher speed.
Meanwhile, the helos used their sonar ahead of the ships, with occasional trips further out into the patrol area.
While the helos were refuelling, the fast ship got hit and went down. The slow one sped up to the location and started a patrol around the area. At this point the new helos had arrived, and they started using their sonar at the edges of where I expected the sub to be.
The last remaining ship then picked up the sub on active sonar to the starboard, and very quickly discovered it was practically sitting on it! It fired the ASW mortars and destroyed the sub, but suffered from minor (20%) damage itself, they were so close! I'm not sure why the sub didn't open fire - perhaps I just got lucky?
I've also just now finished playing as Pakistan. It was a fairly uneventful mission - I patrolled the area at maximum depth, 2kts, until I detected a helicopter's sonar. At this point I slowed to 1kt and headed straight at the helo, to minimise my sonar return. This seemed to work, and I kept heading towards each new helicopter detection I picked up.
Eventually, I got a return for a ship and headed straight for it (again, 1kt, max depth - scraping the sea floor). When more than close enough to fire I fired three torpedos on a spread bearing-only-launch. and sneaked off at an angle, still going slow and deep, since I didn't think I'd been detected. At this point, I got distracted reading about subs and missed the result, but I sank the first Indian ship.
The second went down exactly the same way, but I watched the torps hit - the spread was perfect, each torpedo's sonar slightly overlapping the one next to it. The middle and right torpedo both locked on to the ship, and the first missed, but the second was a hit, and got me the victory.
A nice, relaxing mission - good for a break from too much planning, and with just a couple of assets to read about and an interesting geopolitical situation to learn about.
RE: Question about Old Grudges Never Die triggers (minor spoilers)
Yep i wasnt aware of an Indo-Pakistani war. I had actually spoke to some Indians that i work with and they said something about how Bangladesh came to be but couldnt recall them mentioning a war.ORIGINAL: ColonelMolerat
I've just finished my second run-through of this campaign myself!
I first played as India. I can' remember it exactly, but I had one ship run slowly through the patrol area with sonar on, while the other zig-zagged across its path at a higher speed.
Meanwhile, the helos used their sonar ahead of the ships, with occasional trips further out into the patrol area.
While the helos were refuelling, the fast ship got hit and went down. The slow one sped up to the location and started a patrol around the area. At this point the new helos had arrived, and they started using their sonar at the edges of where I expected the sub to be.
The last remaining ship then picked up the sub on active sonar to the starboard, and very quickly discovered it was practically sitting on it! It fired the ASW mortars and destroyed the sub, but suffered from minor (20%) damage itself, they were so close! I'm not sure why the sub didn't open fire - perhaps I just got lucky?
I've also just now finished playing as Pakistan. It was a fairly uneventful mission - I patrolled the area at maximum depth, 2kts, until I detected a helicopter's sonar. At this point I slowed to 1kt and headed straight at the helo, to minimise my sonar return. This seemed to work, and I kept heading towards each new helicopter detection I picked up.
Eventually, I got a return for a ship and headed straight for it (again, 1kt, max depth - scraping the sea floor). When more than close enough to fire I fired three torpedos on a spread bearing-only-launch. and sneaked off at an angle, still going slow and deep, since I didn't think I'd been detected. At this point, I got distracted reading about subs and missed the result, but I sank the first Indian ship.
The second went down exactly the same way, but I watched the torps hit - the spread was perfect, each torpedo's sonar slightly overlapping the one next to it. The middle and right torpedo both locked on to the ship, and the first missed, but the second was a hit, and got me the victory.
A nice, relaxing mission - good for a break from too much planning, and with just a couple of assets to read about and an interesting geopolitical situation to learn about.