Hitler and the First World War
Moderator: maddog986
Hitler and the First World War
Right, there has been an interesting debate in the Program/Film/Documentary thread about a new 3-part history on Adolf Hitler.
Could I ask someone who knows about the German Army in WWI to comment on the following. There is debate over Hitler's rank following his one and only promotion during the war.
- Was he promoted to Corporal (or the German Army equivalent)
- Was he promoted to Private First Class?
- Are either of the two ranks named above NCO positions?
Thanks.
Could I ask someone who knows about the German Army in WWI to comment on the following. There is debate over Hitler's rank following his one and only promotion during the war.
- Was he promoted to Corporal (or the German Army equivalent)
- Was he promoted to Private First Class?
- Are either of the two ranks named above NCO positions?
Thanks.
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
RE: Hitler and the First World War
There is no Private First Class rank in the German Army. The rank above a private is Lance Corporal then we have Corporal and then Sergeant. As for Hitler's rank I'm not sure. During WW2 he was called "Corporal" behind closed doors in a derogatory way by Generals when they thought he was interfering. So I always thought he was a Corporal though he may well have just been a Lance Corporal.
Just read he was promoted to Gefreiter which is a Lance Corporal. Makes sense.
It was considered an NCO rank.
LINK
"One of the best-known holders of the rank of Gefreiter was Adolf Hitler, who held the rank in the Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment 16 of the Royal Bavarian Army during World War I."
Just read he was promoted to Gefreiter which is a Lance Corporal. Makes sense.
It was considered an NCO rank.
LINK
"One of the best-known holders of the rank of Gefreiter was Adolf Hitler, who held the rank in the Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment 16 of the Royal Bavarian Army during World War I."
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RE: Hitler and the First World War
The answer may be in the pictures.
wearing the Iron Cross, nothing on collar. OR is there if you look close enough up the collar.
wearing the Iron Cross, nothing on collar. OR is there if you look close enough up the collar.
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RE: Hitler and the First World War
Hitler or Alec Guinness...
no rank.
no rank.
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RE: Hitler and the First World War
Is that a rank disc on his collar
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RE: Hitler and the First World War
I don't think Gefreiter was an NCO rank. From ...ORIGINAL: wodin
There is no Private First Class rank in the German Army. The rank above a private is Lance Corporal then we have Corporal and then Sergeant. As for Hitler's rank I'm not sure. During WW2 he was called "Corporal" behind closed doors in a derogatory way by Generals when they thought he was interfering. So I always thought he was a Corporal though he may well have just been a Lance Corporal.
Just read he was promoted to Gefreiter which is a Lance Corporal. Makes sense.
It was considered an NCO rank.
LINK
"One of the best-known holders of the rank of Gefreiter was Adolf Hitler, who held the rank in the Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment 16 of the Royal Bavarian Army during World War I."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Ar ... erman_Army
Enlisted (Mannschaften/Gemeine) ranks
Musketeer (Musketier, Prussian army infantry regiments), Infantryman (Infanterist, Bavarian army infantry regiments), Soldier (Soldat, Saxon army infantry regiments), Gunner (Kanonier, foot artillery), Pioneer (Pionier, pioneer branch). Other unit-specific enlisted ranks were: Fusilier (Füsilier), Grenadier (Grenadier), Huntsman otherwise Light-Infantryman (Jäger), Dragoon (Dragoner), Hussar (Husar), Cuirassier (Kürassier), Uhlan (Ulan), Fusilier Guard (Garde-Füsilier), Grenadier Guard (Garde-Grenadier), etc.
Lance Corporal (Gefreiter); up until 1918 the only rank (with exception of Obergefreiter in the foot artillery) to which an enlisted soldier could be promoted, the rank was a deputy rank to the Corporal (Unteroffizier)[13] rank.[14]
Senior Lance Corporal (Obergefreiter); established in the Prussian Army from 1846 to 1853, reestablished in 1859, then in foot artillery only, replacing the artillery Bombardier rank that had been introduced in 1730.[14]
Additionally, the following voluntary enlistees were distinguished:
One-Year Volunteer Enlistee (Einjährig-Freiwilliger): despite the name, one-year volunteers were actually conscripts who served a short-term form of active military service, open for enlistees up to the age of 25. Such enlisted soldiers were usually high school graduates (Matura, Abitur), who would opt to serve a one-year term rather than the regular two or three-year conscription term, with free selection of their chosen military service branch and unit, but throughout were obligated to equip and subsist themselves at entirely their own cost. In today's monetary value this could at bare minimum cost some 10,000 euro, which purposely reserved this path open to officer-material sons from mostly affluent social class families wishing to pursue the Reserve-Officer path; it was the specific intention of Wilhelm II that such Reserve-Officer career path should only be open to members of so-called "officer-material" social classes.[15] On absolving their primary recruit training and shorter military service term, those aspiring to become Reserve-Officers would have to qualify and achieve suitability for promotion to the Gefreiter rank and then would continue to receive further specialized instruction until the end of their one-year term, usually attaining and leaving as surplus Corporals (überzählige Unteroffiziere) (Reservists), with the opportunity to advance further as reservists. Enlistees who did not aspire to officer grade would leave at the end of their one-year term as Gemeine[16] (Ordinary soldier) enlisted rank (for example Musketier or Infanterist) and a six-year reserve duty obligation.[15] Eligibility for this specific one-year path of military service was a privilege approved upon examining the enlistee's suitability and academic qualifications.
Long-Term Volunteer Enlistee "Capitulant" (Kapitulant): enlisted soldiers who had already absolved their regular two or three-year military conscription term and had now volunteered to continue serving for further terms, minimum was 4 years, generally up to 12 years.[17][18]
Note: Einjährig-Freiwilliger and Kapitulant were not ranks as such during this specific period of use, but voluntary military enlistee designations. They however, wore a specific uniform distinction (twisted wool piping along their shoulder epaulette edging for Einjährig-Freiwilliger, the Kapitulant a narrow band across their lower shoulder epaulette) in the colours of their respective nation state. This distinction was never removed throughout their military service nor during any rank grade advancements.
Non-commissioned officers and warrant officers / Unteroffiziere
Junior NCOs (NCOs without the lanyard) / Unteroffizier ohne Portepee
Corporal/Sub-Officer (Unteroffizier)
Sergeant
It does, however, appear that...
"At the Nuremberg Trials, two of his former superiors testified that Hitler had refused to be considered for promotion."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_ ... olf_Hitler
Cheers, Neilster
Cheers, Neilster
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RE: Hitler and the First World War
From what I researched the NCO button/disk on this soldier's collar may indicate what region or regiment the soldier is in.ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
German NCO WWI
http://www.worldwar1.com/sfgrank.htm
and one flew over the Cuckoos nest
RE: Hitler and the First World War
Attn: Neilster..my first thought was no, yet it seems different websites say different things. The website I linked to puts Lance Corporal as an NCO.
Even mentioned the NCO buttons where smaller on the Lance Corporal uniform..(scroll down halfway)
LINK
"Gefreiter
(Lance Corporal) Same as for Obergefreiter, but the NCO buttons were smaller."
Even mentioned the NCO buttons where smaller on the Lance Corporal uniform..(scroll down halfway)
LINK
"Gefreiter
(Lance Corporal) Same as for Obergefreiter, but the NCO buttons were smaller."
RE: Hitler and the First World War
I've done some more digging in places like axishistory.com and this site...ORIGINAL: wodin
Attn: Neilster..my first thought was no, yet it seems different websites say different things. The website I linked to puts Lance Corporal as an NCO.
Even mentioned the NCO buttons where smaller on the Lance Corporal uniform..(scroll down halfway)
LINK
"Gefreiter
(Lance Corporal) Same as for Obergefreiter, but the NCO buttons were smaller."
http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Ranks ... ed_WW2.htm
...and every one says Gefreiter is not a non-commissioned officer.
Additionally, Lance Corporal is not a non-commissioned rank in today's militaries.
Cheers, Neilster
Cheers, Neilster
RE: Hitler and the First World War
Cool..as I said my first thought was No until I came across this website and I think another one aswell..
RE: Hitler and the First World War
don't forget this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPWGnfTrvJI
RE: Hitler and the First World War
While we're on the subject of Hitler in WWI...What's the verdict on this photo - is it real or fake?
Last I heard it was believed to be fake.
Last I heard it was believed to be fake.
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RE: Hitler and the First World War
warspite1ORIGINAL: Zorch
While we're on the subject of Hitler in WWI...What's the verdict on this photo - is it real or fake?
Last I heard it was believed to be fake.
No, its definitely a photo, I mean just look at it.
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
RE: Hitler and the First World War
It was allegedly taken August 2, 1914, but may be a later Nazi forgery.ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1ORIGINAL: Zorch
While we're on the subject of Hitler in WWI...What's the verdict on this photo - is it real or fake?
Last I heard it was believed to be fake.
No, its definitely a photo, I mean just look at it.
RE: Hitler and the First World War
I wouldn't be surprised if the final verdict is that it is a fake.ORIGINAL: Zorch
While we're on the subject of Hitler in WWI...What's the verdict on this photo - is it real or fake?
Last I heard it was believed to be fake.
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett
RE: Hitler and the First World War
ORIGINAL: Zorch
While we're on the subject of Hitler in WWI...What's the verdict on this photo - is it real or fake?
Last I heard it was believed to be fake.
It was one of the first biographical photos in saw in the late 1960's...
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RE: Hitler and the First World War
Yes there is. Or used to be.ORIGINAL: wodin
There is no Private First Class rank in the German Army.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.
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RE: Hitler and the First World War
I have studied this for over 40 years. Recently, it has come to light that this picture might be a forgery. Of course we will never know for sure. However, I have seen videotape of this exact moment and it does correspond with this picture in 1914. The individual in the film from far away does look like a young Hitler. The film was taken on the podium, near the lion at the Feldernahalle.
It's a tough call on this one but I believe it's genuine. Just my opinion.
It's a tough call on this one but I believe it's genuine. Just my opinion.
RE: Hitler and the First World War
You convinced me.ORIGINAL: demjansk
I have studied this for over 40 years. Recently, it has come to light that this picture might be a forgery. Of course we will never know for sure. However, I have seen videotape of this exact moment and it does correspond with this picture in 1914. The individual in the film from far away does look like a young Hitler. The film was taken on the podium, near the lion at the Feldernahalle.
It's a tough call on this one but I believe it's genuine. Just my opinion.
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett