Tojo's

[geoffreyg]

When I come to it, is it a good idea to upgrade from the Tojo IIb to the IIc?
One gains armour but the two cannon change to machine guns.
Many thanks in advance for views.

[PaxMondo]

The cannons are lousy ... c model is the best one by far ...

[geofflambert]

Cannons are generally lousy unless you're trying to shoot down B-17s or strafing tanks. The role of the Tojo is defeating enemy fighters. Just wish they had the range of an Oscar.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: geoffreyg

When I come to it, is it a good idea to upgrade from the Tojo IIb to the IIc?
One gains armour but the two cannon change to machine guns.
Many thanks in advance for views.

Hi Geoffrey. Hope you're well.

Actually many IJ players try to not use the IIb version at all due to the poor accuracy of the cannons, and just go from the IIa to the IIc. The Iic is good right through until about late 44 as a service 1 defensive fighter.

[geoffreyg]

Very well thanks, Erik.
Thanks also for all the above replies.
The aircraft weapons database gives range, penetration and effectiveness for each weapon.
Is there anywhere that gives accuracy both for the weapon and the position on the plane (CL, F etc).
Many thanks in advance.

[PaxMondo]

There is a field = accuracy. for the 40mm Ho-301 cannon, the accuracy is 2%. Terrible. This is mostly due to its ROF. CL double the accuracy numbers.

[Lowpe]

I can confirm first hand that Tojo IIb are tough to get to work well.[:(]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I can confirm first hand that Tojo IIb are tough to get to work well.[:(]

I think we all can. [:(]

Essentially, they are just armed with 2x12.7mm CL. Ok, the 12.7 isn't bad, but only 2 of them against the allied standard 6 is really not good. The 40mm will fire maybe once per combat, if it hits sure you get a good outcome, but that is just so rare. otherwise you are just out gunned in most fights.

The Tojo c puts you on even footing. 2x12.7 CL and 2x12.7 F is equal to 6x50 cal F ...

[oaltinyay]

I always wondered about the choice of 40mm in that plane whereas most other IJA fighters were armed with at most 12.7s. why tojo why 40 mm and why only that one and why not an intermediary 20mm or 30mm which they must have had.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: oaltinyay

I always wondered about the choice of 40mm in that plane whereas most other IJA fighters were armed with at most 12.7s. why tojo why 40 mm and why only that one and why not an intermediary 20mm or 30mm which they must have had.

Sounds like an experiment in trying to create a bomber killer. The Zero line already had 20mm cannons and they just were not shooting down heavy bombers often enough.

[PaxMondo]

Yeah, by the time it came out, I'm sure they were reacting to B-24's ... but that gun was not the solution. Way too slow, too big of recoil, just wrong. The IJA Ho-5 20mm was their best effort ... but not until '44 ...

[MakeeLearn]

Interesting design, ...


The 40mm Ho-301 cannon used caseless ammunition, the specially designed projectile was in effect a small gunpowder rocket.

The low muzzle velocity (245 meters/second or about 804 ft/sec - equivalent to a moderately powerful air rifle.


760 fps according to some sources.

[Alpha77]

Only few build in reality no good plane, plane too light for such a gun - therefore gun had to be as light as possible but it never will be as good as a real full size gun. The German solution was to create some heavy fighters with 30mm etc. and 2E fighters problem with that was they fell prey to P51,P47s and Spits (much less speed and manvr due to heavy load). Japanese solution was light fighter with big gun, but these would not hit. Both solutions failed.

[rustysi]

Is there anywhere that gives accuracy both for the weapon and the position on the plane (CL, F etc).

To answer your question, yes.

Oh, wait you want to know where that is, eh?[:D]

Top menu bar, several icons from the left, you will see one that is an A/C database I believe. If you select it and drill down on the A/C of you choice you will see a bunch of data, including what you seek.

[SheperdN7]

The 40mm cannons on the Tojo are a tempting thing in concept, at least for a bomber-killer. Unfortunately they don't hit much and as others have pointed out, they are very slow firing. I'd upgrade the IIb to the IIc in a heartbeat if I had a Tojo line going but frankly, I'd rather have Ki-61 Tony's instead. Better durability and it has armour at the cost of a little slower max speed. Better armed as well (at least the later models).

[Grfin Zeppelin]

ORIGINAL: SheperdN7

The 40mm cannons on the Tojo are a tempting thing in concept, at least for a bomber-killer. Unfortunately they don't hit much and as others have pointed out, they are very slow firing. I'd upgrade the IIb to the IIc in a heartbeat if I had a Tojo line going but frankly, I'd rather have Ki-61 Tony's instead. Better durability and it has armour at the cost of a little slower max speed. Better armed as well (at least the later models).

There is a little more to it.
The Tojo comes much earlier.
It has a lower service rating.
Range more range.
The first variant of the Tony is a lemon.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: SheperdN7

The 40mm cannons on the Tojo are a tempting thing in concept, at least for a bomber-killer. Unfortunately they don't hit much and as others have pointed out, they are very slow firing. I'd upgrade the IIb to the IIc in a heartbeat if I had a Tojo line going but frankly, I'd rather have Ki-61 Tony's instead. Better durability and it has armour at the cost of a little slower max speed. Better armed as well (at least the later models).

My experience with the Tony was it was only useful doing CAP except its performance doing that totally blew. Better to sweep than be swept and for that you need Tojos and/or Oscars.

[Marshall]

I fly the Tojo IIA.
They keep up to par with the allied fighters up to Jan 1944.

As Japan you will have to switch to Franks by that time.

My Tojo II A squadrons at Truk shredded Corsairs and Hellcats in Dec 1943! (PBEM)

But as a main fighter it will be in need of replacement, the Franks will do the Job for you for the rest of the war as Army fighter.
Even with a service rating of 3.
You can keep some Tojo IIC as supporting fighters with good service rating, but i like to close the HA 35 engine production when i can and focus on 2 to 3 models of fighters, and mass produce.
I prefer the N1K1 as a land based naval fighter, they wreak havoc to the british airforce, and hold their own against Jugs and are good enough bomber killers.
The Frank however is the backbone for the Army untill the end of the game, or when you get your wondertoys [:D]

I never fly Tony's, they suck, and eat up your pilots.

[Anthropoid]

How do Oscars fair?

I'm only now digging in to the plethora of 'Toms, Dicks and Harries' that is the Japanese 'tech tree' and must say it is bewildering.

Trying to decide: what R&D to leave on/ turn on/ build up as part of a "accumulate oil/resource but with a modicum of engines/aircraft/arms/ships being produced at the outset and then upscale and diversity the production outuputs from there moderated by stockpile growth/decline.

Seems like: Tokyo making Nakajima Ha-35 are just about the best choice if you want to restrict yourself to ONE engine for the first few months? -> Nate -> Oscar . . . A6M2->3->4->5, etc.

[Marshall]

Oscars for the early war months,
Switch to Tojos when available.
Push the NJK1 and the Franks early on.

Look at the engines you need when the newer models dive bombers and torpedo bombers come availalbe.
Make a plan and calculation on your industry needs, and stick to it.
Make your plane choices early in the game, changing later will destroy the upgrade factory lines, and you will have to rebuild to get capacity in.
Also keep an eye on ship production, and tank production.
Be flexible in mid game, if you are Lucky you do not need to produce as many if the war is calm, and use the capacity to get extra supply.

But the Industry monster needs resources, and that is the key to your strategy of the war.
How to get that oil and fuel in, and ship these resources back home.

Who needs Guadalcanal when you are hauling in the Fuel and resources that lasts you 2 years of warfare.
Get to the oil fast, create a safe route by sea or land, and start hording the stuff!