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Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone)

 
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Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (N... - 9/15/2016 7:09:55 AM   
Stelteck

 

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Hi.
Hello this is another AAR that i will try to make as i'am fighting Pelton for the survival of the mother land.

There are plenty of AAR already so it will probably not be very original, but i will try to puts some information if i have time.
"IF" is the right world, as i took more than 3h for my first turn. Fortunately i expect this time to shrink as i'am getting more familiar where all my stuff are.

Still a long time for a result that is far, far from perfect.

Let's discover the opening, which i cannot do anything about it and that is very, very optimized. For the german



My objective of the turn north is to man an heavy defense around Pskov, as Pelton usually try to cross the river on turn 2 and i'am not very fond of it.
The NW front, now manned by Zuikov and the 27th army, manned by an idiot (but PP are scarse) will do their best, using around 10 divisions railed from others part of the front.

Center formed a line at the first river available and will try to delay the ennemy advance.



And now south. South is a big problem as i do not have enough troops here after the others fronts done and i feared that south front could be cut of from SW front, so i tried to man the stalin line a little to allow south front to evacuate.
But i'am very close to german panzerhead and so it could be a bad idea. We will see next turn.

For encercled troops, i know pelton usually keep them alive to prevent them for returning, so i tried to stick them like glue to panzers in hope to got them some hasty attacks and maybe hamper supply.

My first batch of renforcements will only come turn 3 and i expect turn 2 to be very, very long.


< Message edited by Stelteck -- 9/15/2016 7:14:08 AM >
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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/15/2016 11:00:00 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 2: 26 june 1941

Next turn, i will get plenty of renforcement !!!

Good news and bad news this turn.

The good news is that Pelton did quite close of what i expected.
The bad news is that although i tried to stop it, my rifle divisions did not have the power to stop the panzers.

In the north, despite my best effort and heavy fighting, the panzer divisions manage to break though the Pskov line. I will have to retreat somewhat.
The armored reserves i positioned here did not commit to battle. How unfortunate. I need better generals.

I notice also that the german use a lot of bombing raid prior to assaut, often not escorted, and i need to increase quickly my fighter coverage.



In the south, as expected the Panzer go south to encircle the south front, as it was expected. Unfortunately my cover in the open was too weak, but still manage to slow the assaut a little. I hope to be able to save half the front, but an entire army have been isolated.
It looks like it is time to start maning the Dnepr.



In the center, probably the weakest front of the german currently, panzers tried to go around my defense line.



My turn is not finished but situation is looking good, as 2 heroes divisions managed to cut an entire panzer army !!!



I'am quite tented to send my entire western front in an all out assaut on minsk which is poorly defended, but it would probably not be wised as german infantery is only one turn behind the city.
Still a shame not to be able to exploit this encerclement more.

Lessons of the turn :
- Build fighter coverage ASAP, even with poor planes. Maybe use DCA support.
- I need to dig more before battle.
- My poor units use 5 points to enter ennemy territory. My best... 4.
- Ennemy panzers are red in fuel, but i'am not sûre what does it mean. If it is the value "BEFORE" ressuply by HQ, i can still have very mobile panzer against me for turn 3.

I will finish the turn tomorrow.








(in reply to Stelteck)
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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/17/2016 1:14:56 PM   
Stelteck

 

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quote:

Turn 3: 03 July 1941


A quiet turn with little actions.

I choose to run to new defensive positions, and my opponent choose to built up their panzer groups.
I expect massive panzer thrust next turn. It will be difficult.
My divisions did not yet had time to dig. So i try to use swamps. Hurra to swamps.

On the bright side, the first big batch of renforcement juste come and there was enought armement and manpower in my pool to fill most of the new divisions.

I'am also able to move industries and i will start in the south.

Here the situation at the starts of the turn and the expected ennemy movement :

North : Probability of full HQ built up : 200%.
There are plenty of ennemy panzers, he had the time to built them up all and i need renforcement especially south of lake limen.



Center : 80%. Ennemy group was cut off but he easily restore communication. But he do not have so much panzers here and its movements are easy to predict. I will put fresh divisions in the swamps north.



South : 60% : Lots of panzer but i do not think all corps will have built up. Some will. But he have so many offensive options, and i really do not want to send renforcements in this area. I expect the Dnept to be breached this turn and i then will have to run if i cannot counter attack the breached. (+1 soviet would have helped a lot here. Bad luck).




< Message edited by Stelteck -- 9/17/2016 1:17:10 PM >

(in reply to Stelteck)
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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/18/2016 4:04:29 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 4: 10 July

Hi. If you are reading this AAR do not hesitate to post a small word sometimes as i'am feeling a little alone

This turn was surprising. I expected major armored german attack and nothing happens, except a little in the south.

Maybe i overestimated german capability at the time. But it is good news !!

I received plenty of division renforcement (and the reserve front command) this turn and my manpower was able to fill them as soon as they appeared. Unfortunately i have now zero manpower stocks so i will only get the 300/400K that i receive each turn.
Still have plenty of armement points in stock.

As no russian units were harmed during this turn, my troops got a boost of 400K in number.

Ho yes and finland front is active now so i will run like chicken to get free units to use against germany.



North and center only see panzers coming to contact and staying there. According to fuel status they do not have a lots of fuel. It is surprising i was expected a HQBuilt up last turn.



In the center still my defensive line is weak because of this tons of clear terrain there. I cannot built a defensive line here it is annoying. I will built one on the dnepr with fresh division. So i'am not expecting to hold smolensk very long.



In the south, Elite german armored spearhead managed to cross the Dnepr, crushing 2 soviet divisions here with a well supported hasty attacks of 3 panzers divisions, tons of support and 2 big air raid, final CV 6 to 1. My entire line is in reserve mode but noone reacted.
Some firing squad are needed !!! (And i do not know what i'am doing wrong with reserve).



Ennemy troops are too strong to be pushed back, but i will try to make him fight for the bridge head at least one turn before running away.

See you next turn for the expected great german offensive.


< Message edited by Stelteck -- 9/18/2016 4:11:27 PM >

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/18/2016 4:39:48 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Reserve activation primarily depends on the initiative of the leaders. Most of the Southwest Front army commanders are initiative 4 which isn't much use. Also if units have high fatigue from a lot of marching, less likely they activate. STAVKA led units generally won't reserve activate and it's clear you have several divisions like that in the line. Similarly, the units in the Kharkov Military District will have a tough time activating, and since they can be reassigned at no AP cost, it makes sense to do so.

(in reply to Stelteck)
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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/18/2016 5:08:16 PM   
smokindave34


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There looks to be a panzer corps fueling up near Pskov. I'd expect a HQBU underway and Pelton's panzers will be pushing hard for Leningrad next turn. Pelton is a fan of the "right hook" but he may just grind straight through to Leningrad - do you have the city and river garrisoned?

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/18/2016 6:01:34 PM   
Stelteck

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

There looks to be a panzer corps fueling up near Pskov. I'd expect a HQBU underway and Pelton's panzers will be pushing hard for Leningrad next turn. Pelton is a fan of the "right hook" but he may just grind straight through to Leningrad - do you have the city and river garrisoned?


Ho yes

The defense is not as strong everywhere and yet the 11th army defending south of the lake limen did not had enough time to dig, but if i want to send more renforcement i will need to send the western front....

End of the turn :



< Message edited by Stelteck -- 9/18/2016 6:03:50 PM >

(in reply to smokindave34)
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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/19/2016 9:29:38 AM   
Stelteck

 

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Ok so i had a small look at turn 5 this morning. No time to take picture but i can use a public photo from my opponent.

In the north, Pelton choose the right hook by launching panzers south of lake limen. My army here put up a great fight in difficult conditions !
Still my army is now out of shape and will not hold the german anymore now so i have to be very carefull for next turn as its panzers still have fuel.

In the center, there is a minor encerclement of soviet forward units but they will escape and all my lines hold. He do not have many troops in the area whatsoever.

The problem is in the south :
I tried to hold him one turn at the river but it was not efficient.



Great move as i did not evacuated anything. Kharkov was garrisonned by a cavalry division but it did not hold. I just lost half T-34 production.
But who need tanks anyway ?

As the greatest marshall of soviet union Semyon Budyonny say, tanks will never replace a good horse.



I'am giving him the southern front right away !!

Still i have to leave with a crumbling south as i did not intend to make it priority in my renforcement list.





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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/19/2016 9:25:01 PM   
Stelteck

 

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So turn 5, 17 july 1941 with picture !!

North, the german go to the right hook. The army here put a decent fight, but will not hold anymore.
Renforcement are needed to counter this new threat !!



In the center, little tactical movements. Troops will be able to escape this turn, but maybe not the other one.



And in the south, panzers go wild !!!



This turn new units were filed at only 60% manpower, it looks like my stock begin to be depleted. I will also receive less new divisions in the future.

Situation in the south is alarming, as others fronts hold only because i always send new troops there. And i will keep this policy.
South will have to hold as he can !!

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/19/2016 10:52:16 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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You called the right hook, Dave. Not sure why he went that route though. Maybe he sees a big pocket opportunity, although with Dinglir he went straight up against a checkerboard setup.

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/20/2016 12:22:13 AM   
smokindave34


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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

You called the right hook, Dave. Not sure why he went that route though. Maybe he sees a big pocket opportunity, although with Dinglir he went straight up against a checkerboard setup.


I agree that he may have been better off punching straight through to Leningrad however Stelteck doesn't have a lot of troops in front of the "right hook" so Pelton may be able to bag a good portion of Northern Front. I'd say that you should transfer troops from the south to counter this move but you've got major problems in the south as well

Good to see you have a sense of humor regarding the loss of the T-34 factories!

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/20/2016 7:50:17 AM   
RKhan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

You called the right hook, Dave. Not sure why he went that route though. Maybe he sees a big pocket opportunity, although with Dinglir he went straight up against a checkerboard setup.


I suspect he is playing with his food.

_____________________________

RKhan

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/20/2016 9:04:48 AM   
Stelteck

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RKhan


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

You called the right hook, Dave. Not sure why he went that route though. Maybe he sees a big pocket opportunity, although with Dinglir he went straight up against a checkerboard setup.


I suspect he is playing with his food.


Probably lol. Situation south is really bad. I went panic mode trying to put some blocking troops in front of big industries centers, but i would need 3 times the current troops numbers to be effective.

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/20/2016 10:25:03 AM   
RKhan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck


quote:

ORIGINAL: RKhan


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

You called the right hook, Dave. Not sure why he went that route though. Maybe he sees a big pocket opportunity, although with Dinglir he went straight up against a checkerboard setup.


I suspect he is playing with his food.


Probably lol. Situation south is really bad. I went panic mode trying to put some blocking troops in front of big industries centers, but i would need 3 times the current troops numbers to be effective.




If it helps, this is what a strong northern defence looks like at the start of turn 5. All credit to my mentor, who pointed me in this direction, and wishes to remain anonymous.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

RKhan

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/20/2016 10:41:16 AM   
Stelteck

 

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Thanks. In my game the Pskov line was breached turn 2, i did not have so many units entrenched at the time unfortunately.

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/21/2016 8:03:53 AM   
ericv

 

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I have never seen Kharkov taken on turn 5. Amazing

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/21/2016 8:18:46 AM   
Stelteck

 

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Did not need this town anyway !!!

I'am beginning to think that there is no miracle. I cannot defend everything, shall i defended karkov more, something else would have fallen. Objective or encerclement.

I have no renforcement to send south so the front will collapse here anyway and i have to leave with it. I may even strip troops from there as i need a new army to leningrad front ASAP as enemy progress. I will post screens of turn 6 tonight.

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 9/21/2016 8:57:09 AM >

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/21/2016 9:46:32 AM   
ericv

 

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Yes, i see the problem. Too few units, too much objectives to defend! Playing against Pelton just isn't easy in any way

Good luck!!

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/21/2016 10:06:38 AM   
821Bobo


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You guys know the quote from Sun Tzu, right? - He who defends everything defends nothing.

After Pelton crossed Dneper at Kremenchug on T4 you should have retreated from Kiev to east. That could have prevented early loss of Kharkiv. Also from T4 screen it looks like you could have easily mustered 30+ CV for counter attack with 50% chance of throwing him back.

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/21/2016 3:09:44 PM   
ericv

 

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sounds quite intelligent and insightful, the quote from 孫子, also known as master Sun.

There are a lot of quotes to be found on the Internet! That thing is full of irrelevant information

Here is another one :
quote:

Even the finest sword plunged into salt water will eventually rust.
Everyone on this site knows what i am refering to.


More quotes here: here or here

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/21/2016 3:23:09 PM   
Stelteck

 

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I prefer the strategic military quotes from Murphy. I think they are really meaninfull for realife and game :

Example :

- No OPerational PLAN ever survives initial contact with the ennemy,
- There is always a way, and it usually doesn't work.


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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/21/2016 8:06:29 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 6 : 24 July 1941

Great runaway south as most of objective around Dnepr river has been taken or withdrawn for industries so i retreat as i can to the next cities i want to defend (a little), and will go on trying to shorten line to be able to free reserves for others front.



In the center, little tacticals operations as usual, but no real offensive as probably few troops are available.

Smolensk still hold. I may have to withdraw a little as german infanterie reached the front line.



Now currently the most important and heated sector, the north.
I'am very proud of the heroes of the motherland (And thanks Zuikov) who managed to repulse multiple panzers attacks this turn. But still some panzers managed to go though holes and gain a little ground.

West of the lake, german let only small regiments to garrison the line, and most german troops are in the offensive east of limen lake.

I intend to send renforcement from leningrad to block north route, but also to send at least one, may be two new reserves armies in the valadai hills to threaten the advance from the flank. I do not know where to find these divisions but i will find them. I'am fully commited to defend Leningrad at all cost. At least this year.



Total casualties : I only lost one million men !! Great success !! Nothing to worry comrade staline !!!
Still i have no manpower stock and consume everything each turn to fill new divisions.
Only 11 new divisions this turn, it is not enough !! I need hundreds !!! What can i do with such a small army !!!





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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/22/2016 2:23:57 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

You guys know the quote from Sun Tzu, right? - He who defends everything defends nothing.

After Pelton crossed Dneper at Kremenchug on T4 you should have retreated from Kiev to east. That could have prevented early loss of Kharkiv. Also from T4 screen it looks like you could have easily mustered 30+ CV for counter attack with 50% chance of throwing him back.


I concur 100% with you here on this one. His units are now easy pickings and "no" defense in depth at all. The downward spiral has already started, next will be mass unit cut offs.


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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/22/2016 9:42:31 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

You guys know the quote from Sun Tzu, right? - He who defends everything defends nothing.

After Pelton crossed Dneper at Kremenchug on T4 you should have retreated from Kiev to east. That could have prevented early loss of Kharkiv. Also from T4 screen it looks like you could have easily mustered 30+ CV for counter attack with 50% chance of throwing him back.


Given where you are this is excellent advice - in general you shouldn't defend to the west of a German breakthrough in 1941 .. unless you are sure you can stop them.

Look at your Leningrad line. Pelton is screening the Luga line with regiments because he doesn't care. SO you have a shortage of units and are holding a line composed of regiments with divisions and reserves. That worsens your problems on key sectors even if you weren't now badly out of position.

You are probably too late but pull back to a short line just outside Leningrad - the rough terrain will help as will the lack of a strong attacking force. That will free up what looks like 3 armies to challenge the offensive to the east of Lake Ilmen.

Your basic problem is Pelton exploits the rule set, likes to play people trying out their first game (who would probably struggle in any case), who then get badly caught out by his approach (people learn for a second game but he doesn't play them again).

All you can do now is to try and preserve your army - Leningrad is lost so don't compound it by losing 4+ extra armies. Just try and make it so he has to work at the final attacks up the mud season.

_____________________________

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WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/22/2016 10:56:22 AM   
Stelteck

 

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Pelton move troops in a very interesting way it is a pleasure to see him play. It is very elegant. He do not move a unit that is not needed to move.
Not an exploit for me.

I received turn 7. Will post pictures tonight.

The 2 new armies i sent north in the valadai hills fighted well, i did a little repositionning for troops and divisions switching between armies close to leningrad to free reserves too. The ground here is quite good for defense.

I'am not so sûre that Leningrad is lost in the short term. Making Pelton fight here for each swamp and forest may be worth it, as moving around like he did is not the easiest way to go to Leningrad.

Of course, it could be wrong if it force me to strip too much forces from elsewhere, especially moscow. But Pelton do not hesitate to concentrate force so i have to do it too.

I changed also my tactical doctrine. Previous i loved to spread divisions in depth but in fact, but there was 2 problem :
- First, a lone division do not dig fast enough.
- Second, a square that is not able to repulse a panzer division hasty attack is close to useless.

So now i make strong point and it looks more efficient.


< Message edited by Stelteck -- 9/22/2016 10:57:57 AM >

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/22/2016 6:26:27 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Now picture will be a .jpg format. I hope it will be easier to download

So turn 7, 31 july 1941. This terrible month is finally other.

In the south, an heroic cavalry division managed last turn to encercle the entire armored spearhead. She survive the experience !!

Of course my ennemy restore the situation during its turn, but the advance of ennemy come to halt one turn. It will help me evacuate industries from Stalino.
My priority for industries are armement. I often let the Heavy industries as they are more difficult to move, and last turn i had a shortage of ressources anyway to use all of them. If i need more supply, i can always cut plane production or things like that.



In the center, ennemy make slow advance. I will have to evacuate smolensk.



My defenses are quite weak, but german's force are weak too for now. But i will have to boost them before it is too late.

Finally the north :

My 2 armies renforcement were quite effective. Still the ennemy push a little and it will be dangerous as some of motorized divisions have a good stocks of fuel.

Need moar renforcement, ho yes moar

The ennemy also threaten with infantery a weak point of my line south of leningrad. I may retreat a little there. Or wait one more turn before.

I may began to evacuate leningrad factory too just in case. The railroad is close.








< Message edited by Stelteck -- 9/22/2016 6:30:51 PM >

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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/25/2016 8:10:04 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 8: 7 August 1941

So i exit this horrible july to enter... An horrible August.

August is the date of the TOE upgrade of my rifle divisions. Upgrade is a big word. Downgrade shall be the exact term.



So as you can see, we remove all the heavy equipment and now there is only cheap mortar and conscripts with rifle. But even the riflemen are ill-equiped as now half of them are a downgraded version of the normal rifleman squad, with cheap stuff.
This division will be less effective in combat.

The purpose of this change is to make a cheap division in term of armament points. Could be good news, if i had armament issue.



But as you can see, i have tons of armament points in reserve !!!!!

And this division will not at all solve my manpower current issue. I was expecting the reverse playing the soviet union. What can i do ? Maybe i will have to create tons of artillery support regiments.

Let's speak about the turn.

I SCREW UP IN THE NORTH


My current doctrine was to create strong points in swamp but it let a lot of hole and i was not expecting the german units to be able to move around my troops nearly without combat. But they did.
I have to review it. In the maintime german front guard reach and cut the train line to leningrad.

General panic order , i have now to evacuate as much troops as i can by foot before the german close the pocket.
Leningrad is lost.



In the center, little movement but i have to improve the defense here big time because it is the next big battle.

The german supply line is very close and i think big offensive will probably begin soon.



In the south, german advance looks stuck by the lack of refuel and supply. Only infantry move, at the speed they can. It is good news for my industries evacuation. It looks like the german was not able to sustain the rapid advance of the beginning.



Will i be able to save the one millions mens from northern and northwestern front that defend Leningrad !!! Next news next turn !!






(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 27
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/25/2016 9:05:23 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 1632
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
Playing against Pelton, you're Learning the hard way. Losing Kharkov on turn 5 is a harsh blow.

Try to save enough HI (200) and ARM (300) and fight for Moscow. Leningrad is doomed.

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 28
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/26/2016 6:46:22 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 882
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
Turn 9 : 14 August 1941.

Without brain, you have to walk !!!!

Glorious troops march on ... offensive retreat to move out the leningrad area, while fighting against the german advance at the same time.

As soon as they reach the railroad, they take the train to moscow !!

I will did it !!!!



In the center, the ennemy already use the "problems" of the north to open way in new directions. But soon the northwest front will be here front north to cover the area. Go Zuikov !!!
More an more troops rally the center.



The south is really quiet now as it looks like panzers were removed from the area. Maybe to moscow, maybe for others things.

Unfortunately, i managed the exploit to be out of recon plane in the area so i completely lost tracks of these panzers.




(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 29
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 9/27/2016 6:03:49 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 882
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
Turn 10 : 21 August 1941

Deterred by the glorious resistance of my troops, the invader give up trying to encercle the NW and northern front and now is moving toward moscow. My troops rush to the defense.



In the south, little action as the southern front defend stalino against a german army. Ennemy panzers ressuply far from the front.



So the battle for moscow have started !!! It will be a hard fight and i will send everything and the kitchen sink at it !!



(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 30
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