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RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/6/2017 10:04:42 PM   
John 3rd


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On the case. Give me a few minutes to pull up the Mod.


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(in reply to offenseman)
Post #: 811
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/6/2017 10:17:57 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: offenseman


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Nope. Which Mod and Version?


BTS 4.7 Have to port my Takaos until that gets fixed. :)


That number is correct. Jentschura lists the Takao class having Belt: 3-4", Deck 2", Turrets 6", and Barbettes 3" No tower listed.

Atago has slightly thicker Belt.

That is reality unless someone has something else.


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Post #: 812
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/6/2017 10:30:45 PM   
offenseman


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Amazing. Even some of the old CLs have 50mm. Thanks for checking.

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Post #: 813
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/6/2017 10:43:54 PM   
John 3rd


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Had to check. Was pretty sure of the answer but also wanted to make sure I was not wrong.


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Post #: 814
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/8/2017 1:42:39 AM   
John 3rd


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OK. I re-tooled the SS Force in Between the Storms Lite.

Exact changes are deleting 15 of the Transport SS and total deletion of the I-400 Class. Replacing them are nine additional KD8 boats that come in during 1944-5. While not major changes, it follows the precedence of what BTSL is all about so it now is congruent with other decisions made in the Mod.

Will publish this as BTSL 5.0.

This is not a major change for any games already going. Wish I'd thought of it earlier but c'est la vie.



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 12/8/2017 1:43:55 AM >


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Post #: 815
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/8/2017 11:28:57 AM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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FYI - You can upgrade to the latest version of the mod and have any changes to your ships take effect when they have their next upgrades. Long ago when they first changed the number of slots a sub had for torpedo tubes took effect when you upgraded your subs. I've always remembered this since then.

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Post #: 816
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/8/2017 2:15:14 PM   
Kitakami


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
OK. I re-tooled the SS Force in Between the Storms Lite.

Exact changes are deleting 15 of the Transport SS and total deletion of the I-400 Class. Replacing them are nine additional KD8 boats that come in during 1944-5. While not major changes, it follows the precedence of what BTSL is all about so it now is congruent with other decisions made in the Mod.

Will publish this as BTSL 5.0.

This is not a major change for any games already going. Wish I'd thought of it earlier but c'est la vie.


I like the changes.

One thing some players do not see, and I am finding out by playing the Allied side, is that this mod is NOT just adding toys to the Japanese side. True, Japan gets many new toys to play with, but the Allies get:

- 10 to 7 advantage in added naval tonnage BOTH to the USN and RN in the treaties. That means more than I thought it would.

- Slightly increased Chinese replacements. I am seeing the difference in my current game.

- Better state of readiness both in the Central Pacific and Alaska. The Central Pacific does not do much, but the difference in Alaska IS important.

- USN ships shifted to the Philippines. It may not look like much on paper, but ask any JFB what CL Boise or CA Houston can do if not checked. Well... add CA Chicago to the mix.

- A second BC to sail with HMS PoW. Yes, those BCs are fragile, but she is nothing to sneeze at.

If you add all that, plus a few changes on how to play the game as the Allies, you will find this a very enjoyable Mod. One that is definitely not a JFB fantasy. In fact, it may be just the opposite. Ask my esteemed opponent.

Just my 2 cents, as usual :)


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Post #: 817
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/8/2017 3:28:17 PM   
John 3rd


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Thanks. REALLY appreciate the insight!

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Post #: 818
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/8/2017 9:45:50 PM   
Falken


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Hey John,

Was going to run another turn tonight? should I wait, or will 5.0 take an additional few days? No rush, just need to know if I should wait or just keep going w/ 4.7.....

Thanks..

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Post #: 819
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/8/2017 10:38:58 PM   
John 3rd


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Run your turn. Am thinking on some things before I Post 5.0.


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Post #: 820
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/15/2017 3:31:50 PM   
John 3rd


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I just stole a copy of Friedman's US Cruisers on Ebay. YES! Now have the full set and a fantastic addition to the research/Modding library.

BANZAI!


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Post #: 821
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/15/2017 6:49:09 PM   
Kitakami


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Excellent!

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RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/16/2017 3:33:29 PM   
Dirtnap86


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


quote:

ORIGINAL: offenseman


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Nope. Which Mod and Version?


BTS 4.7 Have to port my Takaos until that gets fixed. :)


That number is correct. Jentschura lists the Takao class having Belt: 3-4", Deck 2", Turrets 6", and Barbettes 3" No tower listed.

Atago has slightly thicker Belt.

That is reality unless someone has something else.


I'm curious as to where you got those armor numbers on the Takaos...Patton's book on IJN Cruisers gives 5" (127mm) for the belt (over the magazines), 4" (100mm) over machinery with turret faces having only 25mm (O.O) and the barbettes have 3". Deck listed as 35mm. Interior bulk heads were up to 100mm thick (~4") I'd figure the conning tower would be similar to the bulkheads.

Japanese Heavy Cruisers of World War Two, pp. 36-48 - the book and pages in question. Author is Wayne Patton

< Message edited by Dirtnap86 -- 12/16/2017 3:36:40 PM >

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RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/17/2017 10:15:58 AM   
Edward75


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What's difference between this mod created by John 3rd and by Symon? Is it same mod or different with same of name?

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Post #: 824
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/17/2017 1:45:52 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward75

What's difference between this mod created by John 3rd and by Symon? Is it same mod or different with same of name?

This mod is based on one of the Babes mods made by Symon (aka JWE) and others.

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Post #: 825
BTSL 5.0 - 12/21/2017 12:42:10 AM   
John 3rd


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I've tweaked a new introduction to Between the Storms and wanted to Post it here before I upload it to the site:

Between the Storms (12/20/17)
ALTNAV 1922-1937


The Treaty Mod for AE has been created to reflect a slightly different outcome of the historic Washington and London Naval Conferences to cover the time of 1922-1937. With little changes and tweaks to the Treaty System, a slightly a-historic outcome is produced. The Treaty Years give way to the ramping up of World War Two. Japan grapples with the consequences of exiting the Treaty System and works to create a more balanced Fleet under the able leadership and foresight of Naval Minister Yamamoto Isoroku.

The Washington Conference
Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes blueprint for naval disarmament gets out and the Japanese stonewall a Naval Conference for a full year. After considerable bickering and pressure being brought to bear, the Conference does take place in 1922 and disarmament is agreed upon, however, there are additions allowed due to the added time to get the meeting going. The whole Mutsu debate is scrapped due to Mutsu actually being ready and deployed at that point. A slightly higher 10:10:7 ratio between Great Britain, the United States, and Japan is agreed upon, allowing for several new outcomes:

1. The Ratio Change to 10:10:7:
a. The Japanese argue to keep the nearly complete battleship Tosa and the Amagi-Class battlecruiser Ishitaka. The Americans gain the fourth Colorado-Class USS Washington and the Battlecruiser USS Constellation (while scrapping the old battleships Florida and Utah and making the Wyoming into a gunnery training ship to maintain balance), Great Britain gets the option to build a pair of Super-Hoods.
b. Tonnages are left open for the British to build two 35,000 Ton battleships (Rodney and Nelson), the United States has 28,000 Ton available, and the Japanese have 18,000 Ton open for new Capital Ships. These warships are designed through the late-20s and are authorized for building at the time of the London Naval Conference. The United States builds a fast Battlecruiser (USS Chesapeake) armed with 4x3 12" Guns while the Japanese build a Light Battlecruiser named Chichibu (2x2 16.1" Guns).

2. The whole subject of CVs is reworked:
a. Two 'experimental' CVs (two Hosho's and two Langley's) are allowed to be built for further carrier experimentation. The Americans convert USS Langley and USS Ely to CVEs and they begin the war at the Panama Canal. Japan has IJN Hosho and Ibuki.
b. Two BC to CV conversions are still allowed. The Americans use all their Treaty tonnage to make Wasp a 4th Yorktown-Class CV. The Japanese back off the failed Ryujo design to build IJN Ryukaku and Karasu while Soryu enters as a Hiryu-Class CV.

3. The Big 3 allow for more research into 'Cruiser' Submarines. Since no one had any real idea of where submarines were headed, this allows for further experimentation. The Americans build an additional Argonaut, Narwhal, and three Seaplane carrying subs. The Japanese add three Mine Layers and four large ocean-going Glen SS, and the French add another Surcouf.

The London Conference
Moving on to the London Conference (1930), the subject of Cruisers is re-worked:
1. Japan--at all costs--sticks to its goal of 70% for CAs (instead of 60%). Japan is authorized to build a total of 14 CAs.

2. Great Britain--who nearly scrapped the treaty due to the issue of CAs and CLs--stands firm over its argument and forces a larger tonnage for CLs. This brings no change to the Treaty since Japan was already at 70% in this category.

3. Both Japan and the United States were looking at hybrid Cruiser—CVs and they force Great Britain, following the example set with the Washington BC—CV Conversions, to allow for two hybrids each to be built in the early-30s. The nations are allowed with ONLY these two vessels to place up to 8" guns on them. USA builds CLV Charlotte and Jacksonville (3x3 6" and 18 Planes), GB builds CAV Melbourne and Wellington (sold/given to those respective navies with 2x2 8" and 15 Planes), and Japan finishes up with CAV Kushiro and Tokachi (3x2 8" and 27 Planes). These hybrids are not true, useful CVLs nor are they true, useful cruisers but they have a unique niche in 1941 and ALL of them can be converted into carriers later in 1942.

***It should be noted that to take maximum advantage of the revised Treaty tonnages, Japan converts several of the oldest CLs into fast ML, builds additional Myoko-Class CAs and keeps the last four Mogami-Class as 6” CLs.


Warship Construction AFTER the Treaty Years
Battleship Question and Decision
Staying historical the Japanese decide to build the super-battleships of the Yamato-Class. All four are represented in this Mod. Shinano and Aki are built as BBs and they will use BUCKETS of shipyard points but they are Japan's for the asking.

Command Cruisers
In the 3rd Circle Plan a new class of heavy cruiser is initiated. The proposed Tone-Class floatplane CA is discarded for a balanced, more capable cruiser. These large cruisers are better called command cruisers. The Niitaka-Class grows to over 15,000 tons and carries 4x3 8" guns, heavy torpedo armament, impressive secondaries, and strong floatplane complements. These fast, rugged cruisers are planned to be a six ship class. The initial two are complete at war's start, a second pair coming in late-1942, and a final pair in 1944.


The Rise of Admiral Yamamoto
As the Treaty Period ends, history takes another turn as Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku makes a greater contribution to the development of the Kaigun from 1936-1941. Yamamoto exerts a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister itself. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicate himself to preparing Japan for the war he didn't want. He adds two new slipways (Shanghai and Port Arthur) for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost for the Japanese economy as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war. In so choosing to do this Yamamoto then changes the 4th Circle Building Plan stopping the 3rd and 4th Yamato-Class Battleships, adding two improved Shokaku-Class CVs, a pair of Kawachi-Class fast Battlecruisers, an accelerated Light Cruiser deployment, and additional destroyers. Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. The highly unrealistic 5th Circle Plan is added in late-1941 and adds the 3rd and 4th Yamato-Class BB back into building que. Despite Yamamoto's arguments this allocation of resources goes ahead with completion dates set in 1943-1944. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.

The Japan Naval Air Arm deploys its magnificent A6M2 with research complete for its successors of the M3 and M5. These airframes are nearly ready in December 1941 and the Japanese wisely look at advanced prototypes elsewhere and decide to explore several second-generation fighter concepts. The Zero Team moves on to the Jack and Sam, while private contractors work on the George. Yamamoto fosters a sense of competition between the two teams to see who will win out as having a worthy successor to the A6M2 line. Additional streamlining and encouragement brings forward second-generation aircraft of other fields--Dive-Bombing, Torpedo-Bombing, and the creation of a small heavy bomber line.

On the ground Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and—knowing it will be a war of attrition—converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery (using guns taken from refitted warships) for a stronger defensive unit. Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs. While all these units are small and not in great number they promise to help the Japanese war effort.

The foresight of the Admiral pays off during late-1942 and 1943 as new ships, aircraft, and ground units enter into the Japanese Order-of-Battle, however, the cost is steep. Though expanded and using modern aircraft many Japanese Naval Air units start with their experience lowered to reflect the dilution of the experienced pilots into new units that start in Japan or arrive during 1942-1943.

Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!
Once war begins BTSL postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. Four more improved Shokaku-Class CVs are ordered, and the conversion of several CLs into CVLs is added. First class destroyers continue to be accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumo’s. Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense forces.

Allied Response
It should be noted that not all the changes are for the Japanese. Between the Storms brings major additions and more choice for the Allied Player. The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, the addition of Training Squadrons on mainland USA to allow for an American pilot training program, enhanced aircraft production numbers, additional Allied FP groups, several ground units, additional New Zealand and Australian ships, a French Squadron at Tahiti, the CL Eendract for the DEI, a stronger Force Z, a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-CL, an additional pair of CVLs, and optional conversion of the Kittyhawk Class AKV and Tangier Class AV into CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.

Additionally, the Hepburn Board's recommendation to augmenting and expanding many Pacific Bases is heeded and work is sped up at Wake, Midway, the Aleutians, and in the South Pacific. While work has just begun in many ways, these advances pose a tougher problem for Japan if she moves east or southeast.

As war clouds gather on the horizon, the United States makes several important decisions (1) to slightly reinforce the Asiatic Fleet with an additional CA and 4 modern DDs, (2) Admiral Hart also decides to follow his inner thoughts and begin development of Cebu as an alternate anchorage, and (3) the Scouting Force, commanded by Vc-Adm Wilson, is sent south to protect the ships helping to develop Pago Pago into a forward operating base. This powerful Task Force serves to aid the convoy going to the Philippines (The Pensacola TF) and the empty TF returning from the Philippines (The Chester TF).

In a major development Winston Churchill decides, at the last minute, to add HMS Renown to Force Z to better demonstrate British 'resolve' reflecting the seriousness of Japan's overt aggression. Repairs on HMS Indomitable are rushed and this valuable carrier and her escorts are just days away from assisting Force Z by providing invaluable air cover. A Gurkha Brigade is rushed into Singapore along with supplies and two dozen crated Hurricane Fighters. Is it too little, too late?

How well can YOU do to use these new tools OR how well can you stop the Japanese Navy in its tracks as the Allies?

Scenario Notes
In addition to its own special modifications, Between the Storms has been made fully compatible with DaBabes and thus has more ship classes than stock, and many more of the smaller vessels comprising these classes for both sides: yard oilers, coastal minesweepers, auxiliary subchasers, patrol boats, minefield tenders, and many others designed to give a more robust and realistic feel to the development, population, capabilities, and logistical support of bases and rear and operational areas. Database elements have been modified to provide more realistic results for AAA (flak) combat, ASW combat, and certain minor, but nevertheless fun, aspects of naval combat, like land bombardment and coastal defense fire and new modifications to ATA combat. The modifications include lining-up and unifying data elements within certain fields, so that things interface more smoothly, as well as substantial changes to the data elements themselves.

Garrison requirements have been raised in China as well as India to, hopefully, better reflect the political environment of the regions.

If using the special road movement pwhexe.dat file this serves to slow movement in the CBI Theatre.




< Message edited by John 3rd -- 12/21/2017 12:44:15 AM >


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Post #: 826
RE: BTSL 5.0 - 12/21/2017 12:55:27 AM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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You mentioned with the raising of the ratio to 10:10:7 that Britain can build Super-Hoods. What extra ships would Britain have built that would be available in Pacific at some point. I’ve seen existing Brit ships but nothing new (just the hybrid CLV).

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Post #: 827
RE: BTSL 5.0 - 12/21/2017 3:15:27 AM   
John 3rd


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See new thread...


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Post #: 828
RE: BTSL 5.0 - 12/23/2017 8:43:38 AM   
Edward75


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Explain me how to properly install BtS mod. My new ships and planes without a picture.
And another question, here is version 4.7. https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/home/between-the-storms-scen-55
In Scenario slot I see only version 4.6

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Post #: 829
RE: BTSL 5.0 - 12/23/2017 10:48:36 PM   
John 3rd


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We are actually on 5.0 for BTSL. I need to upload it but we've been tinkering with the Royal Navy some.

Will bump the 'how to install' thread forward.


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Post #: 830
RE: BTSL 5.0 - 12/23/2017 11:01:11 PM   
John 3rd


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It is in the War Room.


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Post #: 831
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/24/2017 3:36:03 PM   
John 3rd


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Have sent BTSL 5.0 to Michael for a look.


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Post #: 832
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/24/2017 7:57:59 PM   
John 3rd


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British Redeployment

OK. Done a ton of thinking and debating. Here is a revamped deployment for Great Britain and the Royal Navy.

We shall start in Singapore.

CHANGES:
1. As detailed in the earlier Modwork, Force Z is augmented with BC Renown. To that addition we tinker with DDs a bit to help provide a bit better of screen for the TF. Still needs more DDs but it is better then normal start.

2. We have a TF departing Singapore heading for Ceylon. This TF has a CL, 2 AP and 3 AK. It has just dropped off the 48th Gurhka Brigade, about 10,000 supply, and 24 crated Hurricane Fighters.

3. Several of the small INF Bn have been placed at bases that had had no AV prior. This should prevent easy Para drops by Japan.

4. In several locations there have been changes done to Forts reflecting slightly greater preparedness.

5. As has been there--forever--in the Mod, there is a full strength Fighter Squadron of Hurricanes starting here.

Hong Kong

CHANGES:
1. The DD TF that always starts at Hong Kong has been moved and redeployed.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 12/24/2017 9:04:17 PM >


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Post #: 833
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 5.0 - 12/24/2017 8:10:02 PM   
John 3rd


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British Redeployment

Here comes the big stuff. WE have, in the Mod ALTHIST, two Super-Hoods built as well as the Rodney and Nelson. This frees up two BB to redeploy after Bismarck is sunk. In the summer of 1941, BBs Queen Elizabeth and Valiant plus escorts arrive to form the initial core of the Eastern Fleet.

Colombo

CHANGES:
1. CV Indomitable is rushed forward and makes it to Colombo on Dec 7th. Her screen is also thin but she does have the nice addition of the two Dido-Class CLAA. Her aircraft complement starts full at 45 planes (21 F--12 Fumar and 9 Sea Hurricanes as well as 24 Albacores.

2. We have the Queen Elizabeth TF (shown on the next Posting).

3. Ships in Colombo's Port include Hermes (SYS 10), CA Cornwall, CL Capetown (SYS 20), CL Enterprise (SYS 10), DD Javelin (SYS 10), and DD Jervis (SYS 10).

4. There is more shipping clustered here as two Indian Brigades have just arrived with supplies. They can be left or forward deployed. Player's choice.

5. Initial troops are shifted to meet minimum garrison requirements.

Rangoon

CHANGES:
1. A full strength squadron of Hurricanes protect this Port.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 12/24/2017 8:15:19 PM >


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Post #: 834
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 5.0 - 12/24/2017 8:12:13 PM   
John 3rd


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British Redeployment

Eastern Fleet Task Force:





Attachment (1)

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(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 835
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 5.0 - 12/24/2017 8:12:51 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 15512
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
Please note that each of the Colombo TFs have a GOOD British Admiral in charge...


_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 836
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 5.0 - 12/24/2017 8:13:32 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 15512
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
How is that for a bolstering of the Indian Ocean Forces??!!

_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 837
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/24/2017 10:08:26 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


Posts: 9335
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online
Looks good John. Should make the first few months very interesting. DEI could be full of new coral reefs for both sides. I’ve recommended before and will say again that any player of this mod needs to look at what forces his opponent has before playing.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 838
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/24/2017 11:11:08 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 15512
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
I've tackled the other stuff we were talking about Michael. Will send the newest file to you and then Post it on the website.


_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to ny59giants_MatrixForum)
Post #: 839
RE: OFFICIAL Release BTS/BTSL 4.5 - 12/25/2017 11:31:54 AM   
traskott

 

Posts: 1363
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline
Sound interesting.....

Have u considered adding some SS? Placed at Singa at 7th december they should give the japanese player some headaches...

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 840
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