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USN Fighter & Carrier Squadrons in AE

 
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USN Fighter & Carrier Squadrons in AE - 7/29/2016 7:10:56 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16424
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
Playtesting and player reports indicated a problem with many kinds
of air squadrons appearing (reappearing actually) in 1942 with late
war types. Investigating this and testing revealed that it is a rather
general but intermittent issue: it depends if, and when, a squadron
is destroyed, disbanded or withdrawn. It also depends if the squadron
has been assigned a 'reappear as' record. IF it has the latter, it
will reappear in one day (not on the date of entry in the indicated
record, which I think is what was expected by whoever did stock data
entry).

Working on that problem, with is generally fairly easy to address, I
finally got down to USN carrier squadrons. These have other problems.
One of those is that they often are set to resize to values so great that,
if this occurs, the carrier can no longer carry all its squadrons. [This
is worse in RHS because we use the design hanger capacity of the carrier,
not allowing a deck park as part of capacity - since code does not force
the carrier to lose deck park aircraft in a storm nor force the carrier to
avoid heavy weather. But it is a problem whatever capacity value is used.]

Beyond that US carrier squadrons in many cases are not assigned to their
historical carriers. Now this is not as easy to address as one might think:
a squadron might serve on more than one carrier, or ashore and on a carrier,
at different times. And a squadron might be reborn as well (and, post war,
at least, many have been reformed). To that add that a carrier name may
also be "recycled" - so a sunk carrier reappears with the same name but it
isn't the same ship. [In RHS, we build carriers with their originally planned
name, because, just because the ship renamed does not mean that in a game the
carrier it was named after is going to be sunk. Thus you need to look at the
hull number to know which carrier it is for an Essex class - it will have its
first name - not its rename.] Still - even start of war carriers (e.g. Lexington
and Saratoga) do NOT have their historical squadrons.

A guide to the fighter squadrons of various carriers at various times (which isn't
quite complete, but is close) is here below:

http://acepilots.com/usn_sqns.html

Squadron # "Nickname"

Start

End

A/C

Carrier/Base

Top Ace (kills w/ sqn)

CO (kills w/ sqn)

Kills

#
Aces

VF-1 "High Hatters" Nov-43 Aug-44 F6F Yorktown CV-10 Richard Eastmond (9) B.M. Strean 100 3
VF-2 "Rippers" Mar-44 Sep-44 F6F Hornet CV-12 Cdr. William A. Dean (10) 240 28
VF-3 "Felix the Cat" Dec-41 May-42 F4F Lexington CV-2 Butch O'Hare (5) Jimmy Thach 18 1
May-42 Jun-42 F4F Yorktown CV-5 Elbert McCuskey (5) Jimmy Thach 34.5 1
VF-5 Aug-42 Oct-42 F4F Saratoga CV-3 H. M. Jensen (7) Leroy Simpler 78 4
Oct-43 Apr-44 F6F Yorktown CV-10 Robert Duncan (7) Ed Owens (5) 93.5 7
VF-6 "Shooting Stars" Dec-41 Oct-42 F4F Enterprise CV-6 Donald E. Runyon (8) James S. Gray 63 1
VF-6 Aug-43 Feb-44 F6F various CV's Alexander Vraciu (9) H.W. Harrison 37.5 0
VF-7 Sep-44 Jan-45 F6F Hancock CV-19 Lt. Cdr. L. J. Check (10) 72 2
VF-8 Dec-41 Jun-42 F4F Hornet CV-8 Merrill Cook (2) Sam Mitchell 5 0
Mar-44 Oct-44 F6F Bunker Hill CV-17 Cdr. William Collins (9) 156 13
VF-9 "Cat o' Nines" Oct-43 Mar-44 F6F Essex CV-9 Hamilton McWhorter (10) Phil Torrey 116 10 est.
Mar-45 Jun-45 F6F Yorktown CV-10 Eugene Valencia (23) John S. Kitten 129 10 est.
VF-10 "Grim Reapers" Oct-42 May-43 F4F Enterprise CV-6 Swede Vejtasa (7.25) J.H. Flatley 43 1
Jan-44 Jun-44 F6F Enterprise CV-6 Richard Devine (8) William Kane 88 5
Feb-45 Apr-45 F4U Intrepid CV-11 P. L. Kirkwood (8) Walter E. Clarke 87 7
VF-11 "Sundowners" May-43 Jul-43 F4F Guadalcanal Charles Stimpson (6) Charles White 52 2
Oct-44 Jan-45 F6F Hornet CV-12 Charles Stimpson (10) E. G. Fairfax 106 5
VF-12 Sep-43 Jun-44 F6F Saratoga CV-3 John Magda (4)? R.G. Dose 20 0
Jan-45 Jun-45 F6F Randolph CV-15 Lt. Cdr. Frederick H. Michaelis (5) 51 2
VF-13 "Black Cats" Jul-44 Nov-44 F6F Franklin CV-13 Albert Pope (7) Wilson Coleman (6) 86 3
VF-14 "Iron Angels" May-44 Nov-44 F6F Wasp CV-18 William Knight (7.5) R. Gray 146 8
VF-15 "Fighting Aces" May-44 Nov-44 F6F Essex CV-9 McCampbell, Duncan, Rushing, Strane, Twelves James Rigg (11) 310 26
VF-16 "Fighting Airedales" Oct-43 Jun-44 F6F Lexington CV-16 Alexander Vraciu (10) Paul D. Buie (9) 136.5 7
VF-17 "Jolly Rogers" Oct-43 Mar-44 F4U Solomons Ike Kepford (16) Tom Blackburn (11) 152 11
VF-18 Oct-43 Mar-44 F6F Bunker Hill CV-17 Lt. Cdr. Sam Silber (6) 74 1
Aug-44 Nov-44 F6F Intrepid CV-11 Cecil Harris (22) Ed Murphy 176.5 13
VF-19 "Satan's Kittens" Jul-44 Nov-44 F6F Lexington CV-16 William Masoner Jr. (10) T. Hugh Winters (8) 155 11
VF-20 Aug-44 Jan-45 F6F Enterprise CV-6/etc. Douglas Baker (16.33) Fred Bakutis (7.5) 158 9
VF-21 Feb-43 Jul-43 F4F Guadalcanal Ross Torkelson (6) John Hulme 69 3
Jul-44 Oct-44 F6F Belleau Wood CVL-24 Bob Thomas (5) V. F. Casey 40 1
VF-22 Sep-44 Jan-45 F6F Cowpens CVL-25 Clement Craig (12) Thomas Jenkins 49.5 3
VF-23 Aug-43 May-44 F6F Princeton CVL-23 L.H. Kerr (4.83) H.L. Miller 35 0
VF-26 Apr-44 Oct-44 FM2 Santee CVE-29 Kenneth Hippe (6) Harold Funk 31 1
VC-27 Oct-44 Jan-45 FM2 Savo Island Ralph Elliott (9) P. W. Jackson 61 1
VF-27 May-44 Oct-44 F6F Princeton CVL-23 James Shirley (12) Fred Bardshar (7.5) 134 10
VF-28 May-44 Dec-44 F6F Monterey CVL-26 Oscar Bailey (5) Roger Mehle 55 2
VF-29 Oct-44 Apr-45 F6F Cabot CVL-28 Robert Murray (10.3) William Eder (6.5) 113 12
VF-30 Jan-45 Jun-45 F6F Belleau Wood CVL-24 James Reber (11) Douglas A. Clark 110 7
VF-31 "Meataxers" Jan-44 Sep-44 F6F Cabot CVL-28 Cornelius Nooy (19) Bob Winston 165.5 14
VF-32 "Outlaw's Bandits" Mar-44 Oct-44 F6F Langley CVL-27 Lt. Cdr. Eddie Outlaw (6) 44 2
VF-33 Aug-43 Jan-44 F6F Solomons Frank Schneider (7) Hawley Russell 74.5 3
VF(N)-41 Aug-44 Jan-45 F6F Independence CVL-23 William Henry (9.5) T. F. Caldwell 46 2
VF-42 Dec-41 May-42 F4F Yorktown CV-5 Art Brassfield (4.83) Oscar Pedersen 25 0
VF-44 "Crusaders" Oct-44 Feb-45 F6F Langley CVL-27 Cdr. Malcolm T. Wordell (7) 47 3
VF-45 Nov-44 May-45 F6F San Jacinto CVL-30 James B. Cain (8) Gordon Schechter 81.5 6
VF-47 "Fighting Cocks" Mar-45 Aug-45 F6F Bataan CVL-29 Samuel Hibbard (7.33) Albert Clancy 67.5 1
VF-50 "Devil Cats" Apr-44 Jul-44 F6F Bataan CVL-29 Daniel Rehm (6) J.C. Strange 61 4
VF-51 Apr-44 Nov-44 F6F San Jacinto CVL-30 William Maxwell (7) C. L. Moore 50.5 1
VF-60 Nov-43 Oct-44 F6F Suwanee CVE-27 R. Singleton (3.25) H.O. Feilbach 25 0
VF-72 Jul-42 Oct-42 F4F Hornet CV-8 George Wrenn (5.25) Henry Sanchez 38 1
VF-80 "Vorse's Vipers" Nov-44 Jan-45 F6F Ticonderoga CV-14 Patrick Fleming (19) Leroy Keith 159.5 10
VF-82 Jan-45 Jun-45 F6F Bennington CV-20 Robert Jennings (7) Edward Hassell 85 5
VF-83 "Kangaroos" Mar-45 Sep-45 F6F Essex CV-9 Thaddeus Coleman (8) H.A. Sampson 137 11
VBF-83 Mar-45 Sep-45 F4U Essex CV-9 Thomas Reidy (10) Frank Patriarca 91 3
VF-84 "Wolf Gang" Jan-45 Jun-45 F4U Bunker Hill CV-17 Doris Freeman (7) Roger R. Hedrick 137 4



< Message edited by el cid again -- 7/29/2016 7:42:38 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: USN Fighter & Carrier Squadrons in AE - 7/30/2016 12:03:33 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10370
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
The Osprey books on USN carrier units gives a good rundown on the tours for each squadron. The USN air groups in game are not historically accurate. It's something the AI couldn't manage very well as well as the AE team ran out of time.

I don't know about late war aircraft appearing in 1942. The only mechanism I know of where that can happen is database errors.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 2
RE: USN Fighter & Carrier Squadrons in AE - 7/30/2016 5:33:46 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 414
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
That is a nice recap of internet/Wiki data.

The actual constitution of USN airgroups, their organization and assignment, over time, can be found at the USN Historical Center. It has the weekly reports of every squadron in service. Some scenario designers use these as sources. Of course, using Wiki Wonka may well be valid for you purposes. Just providing a cautionary note to people who think this internet stuff is dispositive.

Matt

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 3
RE: USN Fighter & Carrier Squadrons in AE - 8/23/2016 4:42:12 AM   
Stele


Posts: 85
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline
Just a side note about this list; I ran into the grand-daughter of one of the pilots from VF-19. I ran the game to see if the squad was mentioned as well as the pilot. I didn't see either, but after reading the response here I can see why it would be difficult to implement into the game based on the period of a squad's activated tour (short for VF-19) and the game mechanics for a scenario.

_____________________________


(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 4
RE: USN Fighter & Carrier Squadrons in AE - 8/23/2016 2:03:06 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The Osprey books on USN carrier units gives a good rundown on the tours for each squadron. The USN air groups in game are not historically accurate. It's something the AI couldn't manage very well as well as the AE team ran out of time.

I don't know about late war aircraft appearing in 1942. The only mechanism I know of where that can happen is database errors.

Bill



Osprey also has a book on just carrier operations itself..

Just a suggestion...If some carriers have an issue with taking on "too many planes to function", don't forget American carriers carried spares which were "hung" inside the carrier bay areas..Perhaps giving the carrier a larger capacity on those larger ships might suffice?
At any rate, where WITP gives an option to take on "extra" planes, even those "extras" count against the ships' capacity, so I don't think my suggestion lacks merit at all.

_____________________________




(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 5
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