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RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/7/2017 8:10:12 AM   
Dabrion


Posts: 725
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From: Berlin, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: quiritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aranthus

Where have you found map images? I don't see them in the downloads section.

now the draft version is online on ADG

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0714/3419/files/WiF8_World_150_45_percent.jpg?8482247284812448819

The changes to Belgium and the Netherlands have a major effect on game play.


The change is not as dramatic as is it seems. It only affects a FR first, because FR cannot garrison the Ardennes while Belgium is neutral. I would even say the weakness in that part of the Front is historical.

For the usualy Ne -> Be -> FR steam roller this change is rather irrelevant, given GE unit density and quality.

< Message edited by Dabrion -- 9/7/2017 8:17:23 AM >


_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 61
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/7/2017 8:13:38 AM   
Dabrion


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Berlin, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio


quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: quiritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aranthus

Where have you found map images? I don't see them in the downloads section.

now the draft version is online on ADG

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0714/3419/files/WiF8_World_150_45_percent.jpg?8482247284812448819

The changes to Belgium and the Netherlands have a major effect on game play.

Yes, they will, and I don't like the change of that hex at all. Makes things much too easy for the Germans.


I have not seen it and the link isn't working (for me at least) but anyway, I cannot understand how can this be a problem for the GE, they almost always take Holland in one impulse, so...


Earlier CW was able to disembark units to Rotterdam, but not in the future. There is a new hex though west of Rotterdam.


Rotterdam is a port, you can always disembark units there if you control the hex. All of Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Antwerp also have an all-sea hexside in the last version I have seen.

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Mayhemizer)
Post #: 62
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/7/2017 8:16:02 AM   
Dabrion


Posts: 725
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quote:

ORIGINAL: quiritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Two other things: 1. For the fans of the Bulgarian gambit, Bulgaria is changed, and also will have an extra unit I hear. 2. The Azores hex to the west of Gibraltar.

Looks like I will have to seriously consider Euro-WiFcon this year, and maybe Oktoberfest

they have yet an extra unit with Khaki in flames.

on the other side Singapore became worst (from Japan prospective) only 1 full land hex to attack: i think that this lead to a no choice for Japan than DOW before CW reinforce pacific option. Singapore with two white print and a fort hexiside is Hard in Fine, with monson/rain AND Malaya full garrisoned is impossible for Japan.


Singapore is an Asia map territory and not concerned by USE36.

p.s.: I guess the distinction of where the map edges are located get lost on the MWiF maps; the Asia<->Pacific map edge is roughly running through Harbin/Shanghai/Manila/Timor/East-Australia. USE36 usually determines Hong Kongs and RAbauls fate though.

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to quiritus)
Post #: 63
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/8/2017 12:08:57 AM   
paulderynck


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Yeah, reinforcing Singapore is not controlled by USE 36 because Singapore is not included in "the Pacific". The change in the new rules excludes putting units in Malaya, but Singapore is also changed to be a separate territory, so the CW can reinforce it as soon as the CW player thinks he can spare the units.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 64
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/10/2017 6:03:08 PM   
warspite1


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Surprised at the lack of response to this question. Is no one else interested in the Collectors Edition?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 65
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/10/2017 7:33:00 PM   
Timian


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You beat / Already ordered it . . . Like the Sicilian map changes . . . Don.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 66
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/11/2017 3:53:34 PM   
davidachamberlain

 

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I think many are in the similar position of not being able to setup and run the large tabletop game anymore. Constraints such as real estate, spouse time and space limitations, and time from those available to actually play the game that were not a concern 10 years (or more) ago.

It might be nice to own it (for collectability sake), but even better if you could leave it set up and play it.

I am afraid that those days are gone.

The closest I can get is with MWIF, TeamViewer and TeamSpeak across 2 countries (3 provinces/states) a couple afternoons each month. The cardboard and paper version will not help with that.

Dave

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 67
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/11/2017 5:03:38 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Surprised at the lack of response to this question. Is no one else interested in the Collectors Edition?

Interested. Just need to secure funds. Negotiations has begun.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 68
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/13/2017 6:57:40 PM   
CrusssDaddy

 

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Does the Collector's Edition integrate some of the more exotic special weapons, like this one: https://i.redd.it/jrc2q9qnsmlz.gif

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 69
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/13/2017 9:12:39 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Does the Collector's Edition integrate some of the more exotic special weapons, like this one: https://i.redd.it/jrc2q9qnsmlz.gif
warspite1

The MK V Winston was truly devastating


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 70
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/14/2017 1:44:51 PM   
Courtenay


Posts: 3142
Joined: 11/12/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Does the Collector's Edition integrate some of the more exotic special weapons, like this one: https://i.redd.it/jrc2q9qnsmlz.gif
warspite1

The MK V Winston was truly devastating



Here's a WW II weapon. I defy anyone to watch this video without laughing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJQqXXENYsI

< Message edited by Courtenay -- 9/14/2017 1:46:11 PM >


_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

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Post #: 71
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/14/2017 2:13:58 PM   
brian brian

 

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I plan to set up a game of it this winter. Will dive into a solitaire game immediately upon receiving a copy, for sure. Whether I will be able to expand it out to a real game with my usual ftf opponent remains to be seen. We live 2.5 hours apart...but I have another out-of-state bid due this Friday.

(in reply to Courtenay)
Post #: 72
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/14/2017 4:11:44 PM   
Joseignacio


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Does the Collector's Edition integrate some of the more exotic special weapons, like this one: https://i.redd.it/jrc2q9qnsmlz.gif
warspite1

The MK V Winston was truly devastating



Here's a WW II weapon. I defy anyone to watch this video without laughing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJQqXXENYsI




(in reply to Courtenay)
Post #: 73
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/14/2017 4:19:16 PM   
flipperwasirish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Does the Collector's Edition integrate some of the more exotic special weapons, like this one: https://i.redd.it/jrc2q9qnsmlz.gif
warspite1

The MK V Winston was truly devastating



Here's a WW II weapon. I defy anyone to watch this video without laughing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJQqXXENYsI

I made it until the dog when I burst out laughing.

_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to Courtenay)
Post #: 74
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/15/2017 5:56:19 AM   
warspite1


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First of the Stretched targets has been met - I believe that means that ADG will be printing the Scandinavian Map on hard board in due course. Hussah!

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 75
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/16/2017 2:03:12 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: quiritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aranthus

Where have you found map images? I don't see them in the downloads section.

now the draft version is online on ADG

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0714/3419/files/WiF8_World_150_45_percent.jpg?8482247284812448819

The changes to Belgium and the Netherlands have a major effect on game play.


The change is not as dramatic as is it seems. It only affects a FR first, because FR cannot garrison the Ardennes while Belgium is neutral. I would even say the weakness in that part of the Front is historical.

For the usualy Ne -> Be -> FR steam roller this change is rather irrelevant, given GE unit density and quality.

The Belgian hex that has been given to the Netherlands means that the Germans can take out the Netherlands (both ports) in Rain or Snow with certainty and zero losses. Then they are set up to take out Belgium without needing the Para unit. That can be done in Rain and Snow too. Come the first turn of Fine weather in Mar/Apr (or May/June) the French are under serious attack in the Belgian Clear terrain.

That is a substantial change.

Using the old map, the Germans have to either wait for the Para to take out both Amsterdam and Rotterdam, or risk a naval invasion by a division, or be lucky with the turn ending before the Brits can land units in Rotterdam. Without Rotterdam, the Germans have to wait for the Para to arrive in Mar/Apr to take out Belgium with confidence - otherwise they risk the Allies holding Brussels and 4 Allied Corps supporting Belgium.

This looks to my eye like the the changes in the Lowlands lets the Axis gain at least an impulse, and possibly a full turn for their attack on France.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 9/16/2017 2:07:04 AM >


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 76
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/16/2017 1:42:23 PM   
Courtenay


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I agree completely. I will not be playing on the new map.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 77
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/16/2017 3:40:03 PM   
Dabrion


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True, you cannot zoc-block Rotterdam anymore by sitting in Amsterdam. I haven't heard anyone complain about that yet.

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Courtenay)
Post #: 78
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/16/2017 3:48:13 PM   
Courtenay


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Joined: 11/12/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

True, you cannot zoc-block Rotterdam anymore by sitting in Amsterdam. I haven't heard anyone complain about that yet.

Now you have!

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 79
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/16/2017 3:53:27 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

True, you cannot zoc-block Rotterdam anymore by sitting in Amsterdam. I haven't heard anyone complain about that yet.
warspite1

Presumably this is just one rule change of many so maybe too early to judge the impact in the round? Not to mention the fact it must have been play-tested to death?


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 9/16/2017 3:58:52 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 80
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/16/2017 4:20:16 PM   
Dabrion


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Are you disembarking a full stack into Rotterdam? What are the chances for the BEF to link u with the French from there? Could potentially save the part of the Dutch Fleet that is hit by the surprise port strike.

Guess I just don't see that happen a lot.

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 81
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/17/2017 2:06:50 AM   
brian brian

 

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The Germans can just skip the Netherlands attack altogether. If they wait till their 3rd impulse they can hit Antwerp with the 9-4 INF, the 4-2 ART, the Rundstedt HQ, and 2 Stukas for a 40 : 9 attack, probably with more plus mods from surprise Ground Strikes and HQ Support and maybe some Shore Bombardment on a Combined to really maximize it maybe at +16. Of course, a "magic 14" result takes a huge bite out of the nascent German War Machine and puts them in quite an operational pickle that will likely require an Offensive Chit to dig out of and that might not happen until 4 turns later. But that is a very low probability.

The new map does make the 1 impulse Holland, 1 impulse Belgium, now welcome to France strategy very inviting. I thought there would be some sort of minor rules brake applied to it but there doesn't seem to be from what I have read. I know it was all playtested heavily and perhaps one of the new rules will serve to limit it in a way I haven't discovered yet. Maybe the minor force pools will change.

But I have never thought the historical Germans would have been able to conquer Holland and then ten days later attack Belgium and achieve "surprise," for starters - there would have been a decent chance Belgium would have finally allowed those "Allied Staff Talks" and they surely would have at least mobilized and gone to 100% operational readiness.

And then there would be the reaction of the German General Staff to the idea of launching a new war with their western enemies via their nightmare scenario - a "Two Front War". No one, including the Germans, knew how effective Blitzkrieg would be, the way we do, playing the game 78 years later. I have never been sure that Hitler might have had the political capital to pull off this common WiF idea. I like that the game allows it to be explored but I think it should be handled very, very carefully.

A minor note on all this is that the new rules don't obviate the Germans to use a few units to conquer Denmark on the first turn. A single ZoC generating unit on the Danish border should keep an adventurous Churchill player from reaching Copenhagen and instead the Germans can secure this flank at their leisure, probably in 1940 when US entry chits are lowest, as in history.

And if I recall correctly the newest Global War set-ups won't deliver the Queens to the CW until Mar/Apr 40 though I'm not sure if they might still have 4 regular TRS anyway.

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 82
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/17/2017 2:17:57 AM   
brian brian

 

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As for Rotterdam the Germans in WiF7 can also "deke" the Allies (as they say in American baseball then the outfielder pretends to have trouble fielding the ball hoping a base runner will advance when they can be easily thrown out). The Germans can attack Holland before the BEF has landed on the Continent, take Amsterdam and then bemoan the fact that they didn't set up right to get into Rotterdam before the British. The British move their excellent infantry into the strong point and then the Germans just make the partially risky one hex attack on Antwerp as described above.

The Brits then have 2, maybe 3, probably pretty good units sitting with little relevance in Rotterdam, where maybe German ART strikes can just keep them there for awhile, doing nothing.

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 83
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/17/2017 10:20:04 AM   
warspite1


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Here is what Harry has to say about the map changes:

Notable changes in Maps from previous editions.

Americas

Mexico and the USA have more hexes, Canada less, all 4 major US cities on the west coast are now shown, Dutch Guiana added allowing a new home country, some sea boundaries changed and coloured dots to show the only locations you can go to and from the other maps. The chart that records the impulse’s weather is also on the Americas map.

West Europe

France and Netherlands are a bit bigger, Belgium and Switzerland a bit smaller. Netherlands beak has been added making it harder for Germany to invade Belgium without declaring war on the Netherlands (as historical). Scheldt Estuary also added making the strategic outflanking of Belgium easier.

Scandinavia has been substantially changed. Its now possible to invade Oslo. Many new off map hexes have been added (including Iceland and the Faeroes islands), and Stockholm made more Stockholmy. The Mediterranean’s sea borders have been changed dramatically and a lot more western African off map boxes added.

Finally Great Britain has been pivoted 1 hex further away from Scandinavia, one sea area removed up north and the Azores added on the south west of the map along with one of the two cadre boxes just so you don’t have to remember how many bonus build points you are going to get.

East Europe

Many changes, again a lot more off map hexes both up in Finland and the Kola peninsular, and down south in Southern Africa. Some changes in the Balkans but the biggest changes are in Russia which has been substantially altered. The Dnieper line at its shortest point was 20 hexes wide now its 22 which makes the battle in the south much more fluid.

The soviets need to rely on manouver more to survive but on the other hand when they are coming back, the Germans will find it more difficult to defend the Dniepr line too. And then there is the Gibraltars’ of the east, Leningrad and Rostov to provide perfect shoulders to a shrinking Soviet defence.

Furthermore, the rail network is now the 1942 network not the 1934 previously used and just checking the two maps is one example of the vast endeavour that was the industrialisation of the Soviet Union in the 1930s that gave them the ability to resist the Germans in the 40s.

Finally if you notice the east, its not the prairie steps that it used to be. Our previous maps were only partially equal areas projection (as opposed to almost completely now) and when we got to the north eastern end of the eastern Europe map our artist ran out of cities and terrain and the distances between Kazan and Kubyshev became ridiculous. This has now all been fixed, the cities and rails put in which gives the Soviets much more resistance in this part of the map.

Asia

Probably the biggest changes are on this map. First to make the distances between Kazan and Sverdlovsk reasonable (much less than they used to be) we only have two choices, move the terrain to the map edge or move the map edge to the terrain. Doing the latter not only takes into account the shorter distance in the higher latitudes, but also turns the Asia pacific map into a globe which is intuitively right.

The rail network has again been improved here, more cities added in Siberia, the rail network extended through connecting Iran and Iraq via the Persian corridor to the Soviet Union making this a viable route for invasion and counter invasion. Also the connections between Europe and Asia are spot on now (their was a 200 km discontinuity in some sections of the old maps).

But the biggest changes are in East Africa, India and the Dutch East Indies with the latter two being much more accurate in their terrain, resources and coastlines and the former being dramatically increased in size to allow the entire east African campaign to be fought out without the requirement of the African map (which is why the African map is now only available in the Superdeluxe games set).

We now also include all Madagascar and East Africa going all the way down to South Africa and we also now allow you to cut inland at the vital rail junctions of Port Franqui and Elizabethville. Nothing quite so disconcerting than watching your enemy apparently fly across the map in one impulse and all of a sudden be deep behind your lines. With Territories in Flames and vastly expanded territorials for all major powers including potential freebies when you conquer them, Africa should see a lot more action in future.

Pacific

Biggest changes here are in the pacific itself where it is now 4 sea areas from Pearl to Tokyo allowing a bit more strategic depth on both sides. Again the distances have been calibrated much more accurately, and more islands added where necessary. It really displays the rich chain of islands in the south Pacific as opposed to the almost open ocean of the North.

On the mainland the biggest change is the addition of all the roads in Siberia to connect up to their Pacific ports so reflagging US ships to Soviet ownership and bringing in lend lease via the east is now a very viable proposition. We have also included two famous roads, the Silk road(s) potentially allowing Soviet support for China and also the Road of Bones which allows the Japanese or Russians to potentially outflank each other.

I’m looking forward to my first game where the Road of Bones is the road to victory.




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 84
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/17/2017 12:43:46 PM   
brian brian

 

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cool deal, thanks for posting. quite looking forward to late November now when I hope to be moving into an empty building. Hmm, what will I place in the building first?


I just hope the "American Map" is a tad bigger in terms of the physical size of it, to be a little more functionally useful with counters.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 85
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/17/2017 1:01:16 PM   
Dabrion


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Be+Ne forcepools don't change. Some planes have their dates changes.. think Ne sets up the Fokker now. I don't think the America Mini map changed in size.

adding to Harry's list: Italy has no major port on the WMed/EMed, Malta not on the Italian Coast, Sicily has invadeable coast line on the WMed/EMed, Tunisian ports not invadable.

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 86
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 9/29/2017 9:01:22 PM   
Orm


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The kickstarter campaign ends this weekend. Join now and get the game that is the greatest game ever made according to the legendary gamer Warspite1.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/489244166/world-in-flames-collectors-edition

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 87
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 10/2/2017 6:06:23 PM   
rotorhead10

 

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I have followed this thread and decided to try the world of WIF so have ordered the Kickstarter. Looking forward to giving it a try, a FTF opponent in the West Midlands would be helpful.

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Post #: 88
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 10/2/2017 6:14:10 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulinda1212

I have followed this thread and decided to try the world of WIF so have ordered the Kickstarter. Looking forward to giving it a try, a FTF opponent in the West Midlands would be helpful.
warspite1

Which one of the three have you gone for?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to rotorhead10)
Post #: 89
RE: In case someone is interested on how WIF (no MWIF) ... - 10/2/2017 6:25:56 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulinda1212

I have followed this thread and decided to try the world of WIF so have ordered the Kickstarter. Looking forward to giving it a try, a FTF opponent in the West Midlands would be helpful.

Welcome to the club paulinda1212. I hope you will enjoy the game. And I hope that you find a FTF opponent nearby.


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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to rotorhead10)
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