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B17 for air superiority missions ?

 
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B17 for air superiority missions ? - 4/11/2016 7:11:49 PM   
LastBreath


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Dear Admirals,

I kindly request your great wisdom to deal with B17 used for air superiority purpose.

My enemy uses a mix of P40 (sometimes) and B17 (every turn) to attack my airfield at Guadal. My skilled Zero pilots can deal with the P40 but when I use CAP they attack the B17 and die.
It s an unfair situation cause B17 is not a threat, their pilots are not good enough.
They simply attack my airfield to provoke my CAP. Finaly it s like a B17 sweep.

How can i deal with that ... Any idea ?
Tks in advance

< Message edited by LastBreath -- 4/12/2016 5:26:35 AM >
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RE: B17 for air sup. missions ? - 4/11/2016 7:36:21 PM   
AW1Steve

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LastBreath

Dear Admirals,

I kindly request your great wisdom to deal with B17 used for air superiority purpose.

My enemy uses a mix of P40 (sometimes) and B17 (every turn) to attack my airfield at Guadal. My skilled Zero pilots can deal with the P40 but when I use CAP they attack the B17 and die.
It s an unfair situation cause B17 is not a threat, their pilots are not good enough.
They simply attack my airfield to provoke my CAP. Finaly it s like a B17 sweep.

How can i deal with that ... Any idea ?
Tks in advance

B-17's were called "the best four motor fighter in the war". Subrou Saki, Japan's highest scoring surviving ace describes in his book Samurai repeated passes a large number of zeros he was part of making run after run on a B-17c , using all their ammunition before finally, it caught fire (This was the B-17c of Colin Kelly fame). B-17's required very heavy firepower to bring down. You will need lots and lots of Zeros. Heavy AAA will also help. But keep in mind that just because you didn't bring it down doesn't mean you haven't hurt it. Many damaged B-17's become "ops losses". Others will be down for days repairing battle damage. But early in the war the Japanese have a very hard time bringing down American heavy bombers. .Later in the war it becomes somewhat easier, but never easy. While this may seem unfair to you, it's also very realistic. And it's about the only advantage in the war that the allies have.

< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 4/11/2016 7:38:27 PM >

(in reply to LastBreath)
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RE: B17 for air sup. missions ? - 4/11/2016 7:40:41 PM   
LastBreath


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a clear explanation. Thanks a lot Steve !

(in reply to AW1Steve)
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RE: B17 for air sup. missions ? - 4/11/2016 8:22:41 PM   
Lowpe

 

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You want canons, and high defense fighter pilots. So early on you can have success with Rufe, Zeroes, Nicks.

Georges are great at killing them, Jacks although the J2M3 is much better than the J2M2 -- as is the A6M5c as it bristles with guns and has armor. The Tony 61D and better models are very good.

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RE: B17 for air sup. missions ? - 4/12/2016 3:00:20 AM   
Rusty1961

 

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Don't do it. The B17 is a heavy bomber, not a transport.
Maybe later in the game when you have a lot of bombers.

It's like using a screw-driver when you need a hammer.

(in reply to Lowpe)
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RE: B17 for air sup. missions ? - 4/12/2016 4:57:34 AM   
Yaab


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LastBreath, consider changing the thread title. "Air sup. mission" = my first guess was "air supply mission", but you meant "air superiority".


If you use B-17s for air superiority missions, then use B-26 Marauder for air supply mission. Loads 2 supply points per plane (load capacity 4000), has 10 points durability more than transport aircraft (40 vs 30) and service rating 2.

(in reply to Rusty1961)
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RE: B17 for air sup. missions ? - 4/12/2016 6:05:03 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


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I think the OP is more concerned about his own fighter losses than about downing bombers. Even cannot-armed and armoured Japanese fighters take heavy losses against 4E bombers - day and night.

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RE: B17 for air sup. missions ? - 4/12/2016 6:47:50 AM   
LastBreath


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quote:

You want canons, and high defense fighter pilots

Tks Lowpe, I copy-past your answer in my air tactics book


quote:

consider changing the thread title

My bad Yaab, it's done.
Tks Rusty i note that B17 used like that it s a heavy cost tactic.


quote:

the OP is more concerned about his own fighter losses than about downing bombers.

Yes, absolutely but it seems there is no other option than fight back. Firstly I try to avoid combat by CAP altitude 100m but that doesn t work.

< Message edited by LastBreath -- 4/12/2016 6:59:19 AM >

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RE: B17 for air sup. missions ? - 4/12/2016 4:15:11 PM   
Skygge


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quote:


Yes, absolutely but it seems there is no other option than fight back. Firstly I try to avoid combat by CAP altitude 100m but that doesn t work


I would say you must fight back and the more opportunities you get to fight unescorted or poorly escorted bombers the better.

How hard it may seem as the Japanese to see ones fighter´s go red again and again in the combat animation, then one must see the whole picture
which includes op losses - as pointed out.

All the time you need have in mind that the allied 4E´s bombers is a limited asset. Their force pool is limited and the allied
cannot sustain a prolonged bomber offensive against a determined defense, whereas the Japanese can control production to keep
the Datai´s flying.

Later in the war you will get to combat allied fighter sweeps as well, where some of them - especially the P-47´s sweeps can be hard to watch.
Again you need wait and see the whole picture -which includes op losses. You loss of pilots will also be much less than loss of planes as you fight over you own bases.
A good pilots can easily become more valuable than an airframe more or less.

I recommend you read some of the very good posts on air combat like Obverts Low CAP vs High SWEEP : http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4047529
Or John B´s P-47 Hammer of God? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4035467

Again remember the allied air asserts are limited.
I would say they struggle all up through 1943 and most of 1944 with their force pool eroding against a determined Japanese defense.


< Message edited by Skygge -- 4/12/2016 4:17:40 PM >

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RE: B17 for air sup. missions ? - 4/12/2016 8:32:37 PM   
GetAssista

 

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Be thankful that your opponent is willing to attrite Allies' best weapon doing minor damage and shooting down some Zeros, and encourage this practice so that he won't be able to amass 4E pools for later usage. Massed 4E can be utterly devastating when bombing airfields and LCUs

Also check Air losses in intelligence screen for the real number of beasts you destroyed and feel better about yourself

(in reply to Skygge)
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RE: B17 for air sup. missions ? - 4/13/2016 3:12:44 AM   
General Patton


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Ah. Don't listen to these guys. The B-17 is there to help you manage your air frames by keeping your number of backup aircraft low.....GP

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RE: B17 for air sup. missions ? - 4/13/2016 7:37:59 PM   
LastBreath


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Got it !!!

Tks men

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Post #: 12
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