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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 6/26/2016 11:01:21 PM   
cpdeyoung


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Political consideration of the new war.

Prepared for the President by the State Department

The isolationists in the United States are in a frenzy only exceeded by the German-American Bund and the Italian-Americans. Any sympathy for the British and French has been expended. There is no chance the nation will stand for entry into Chamberlin's war.

The American people will support a defense of the western hemisphere, but not much more. It is recommended the submarines in European waters leave the war zone.

There is a considerable feeling that Italy has been shamefully attacked, but less feeling that Germany has been wronged. Germany is expected to defend itself vigorously, but Italy is seen as a weaker nation bullied by powers who were her allies in the Great War. In general most Americans want a rapid return to peace. An offer of Presidential intervention in brokerage of a ceasefire and peace would be welcomed.


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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 6/27/2016 5:21:23 PM   
ironduke1955


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December 1938 the new German IXB U-Boat's were on their way to the Atlantic to commence sea trials with a small escort of destroyers, the British have attacked the German vessels in international waters destroying several submarines and all of the escorting destroyers, With great loss of life. No warning was received. A state of war now exists between Germany and the United Kingdom the Italians and French have followed their respective allies into this war.

Germany did not start this war but we will pursue our enemy to the bitter end.




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< Message edited by ironduke1955 -- 6/27/2016 5:24:41 PM >

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 6/28/2016 4:03:05 AM   
baloo7777


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After the sneak attack against Italian soldiers by the French, the Italian Air Force made sorties and began to degrade the enemies troop concentrations. That and concentrated artillery fire has the Rumanian troops in French uniforms stopped cold outside of Belgrade. Elsewhere, the Port of Djibouti was taken and Malta bombed in retaliation for the unprovoked British submarine attacks that sank a Heavy Cruiser in the Eastern Med. Those submariners responsible for that attack have been hunted down and dispatched to the bottom by the Regia Marina. The Spanish are very concerned by the aggressive French Fleet in the Eastern Med.

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/1/2016 6:09:05 AM   
cpdeyoung


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The US Navy has withdrawn from European waters as our submarines were in grave danger of accidental attack.

Gentlemen, can we stop this war before it becomes too terrible. Losses are minimal at this point and reparations could be arranged.

FDR

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/2/2016 12:26:23 PM   
ironduke1955


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January 1939

Germany took revenge for the unprovoked attack on the Kriegsmarine in December of 1938 with the loss of life of so many German mariners and submariners.

Austria joined the Reich willingly, Holland not so willingly. Denmark was invaded to allow a route to Germany's enemies in the North. The western front is quite for now, this is not expected to continue.

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/5/2016 9:03:57 AM   
ironduke1955


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February 1939

The 4th and 7th Panzer Armies are engaged in Sweden and Norway a British stronghold on the continent.

The Dutch East Indies was given to the Japanese as the Germans are unable to protect these precious assets.

The Germans are assisting the Italians in Romania with air and ground forces.






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< Message edited by ironduke1955 -- 7/5/2016 9:07:48 AM >

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/6/2016 3:25:54 AM   
baloo7777


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The Italian Army makes a victorious attack against the French supplied Rumanians as they drive them from the mountainous region that they had occupied to threaten Belgrade. We thank our German Allies who have joined the battle for Rumania.






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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/8/2016 6:45:02 AM   
cpdeyoung


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The United States Congress has made it clear that the administration must not continue to interfere in Finnish politics.

As soon as the USA gains influence in Finland we will disband the whole of the Finnish armed forces. Realizing that this will create a power vacuum there we announce that Finland throws itself on the first protector to enter the country. Finland has parties in sympathy with Great Britain, Germany and the Soviet Union. No matter which of these nations enters Finland the administration has been ordered to accept any peace offer forthcoming. If any party enters Finland before the disbanding the United States will still accept a peace offer, but the Finnish troops will defend themselves till they are disbanded.

We realize that the Soviet Union may have no concern with Germany on the border of Leningrad. Germany may have no issue with the British and Soviets sharing a border in the North. If no one enters Finland then the Finns will happily watch the war from the sidelines.

The administration would not mind guiding the Finns to victory over all comers, but the Congress dictates otherwise.

The diplomatic control of Finland is perhaps 1-3 months away.

FDR

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/8/2016 11:48:12 PM   
ironduke1955


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March 1939

The British have committed considerable force to Norway and Sweden looks like they mean to stay.


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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/9/2016 2:23:36 PM   
LJBurstyn

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ironduke1955

March 1939

The British have committed considerable force to Norway and Sweden looks like they mean to stay.



The Soviet Union would like a control of Finland to protect our borders.

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/9/2016 4:29:20 PM   
cpdeyoung


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The United States understands the Soviet concern. Since Germany will get a phase before the USSR in the month the Finnish Army is disbanded Stavka may decide to enter Finland as soon as possible. There is no time to waste.

FDR

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/9/2016 8:08:59 PM   
baloo7777


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The Italian Regia Marina has engaged the Franco-English Naval Forces blockading Italian Ports and hhas had some success, sinking 12 subs, a destroyer II, a light cruiser and a French Battlecruiser, while losing only 2 subs. However, the blockade continues as the enemy has an unmatched advantage in numbers.

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/12/2016 6:21:20 AM   
cpdeyoung


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As promised President Roosevelt advised the Finns to disband all their military. The USA has a liaison mission there to support trade with the Finns.

The Finns are in an uncomfortable position, however, so far, there has been no trespass on their borders.

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/13/2016 9:04:33 AM   
ironduke1955


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The Swedish and Norwegian fronts have loosened due to amphibious landings at Stockholm and further North near the Nickel and Tungsten mining area's, Oslo is within range of the guns of 4th and 7th Panzer armies.

The Germans have moved 3 Armies to Italy including the 1st SS Panzer one additional Infantry army is on standby if needed.

Again the US causes head scratching in Berlin telling the world that their has been no trespass on Finnish territory, why would there be any trespass Germany is delighted that the Finns are now protected by the US, Germany is currently not in a position to help them, and equally the Soviets must be delighted that the US now sits on their Northern Border.




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< Message edited by ironduke1955 -- 7/13/2016 9:07:38 AM >

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/13/2016 11:18:06 PM   
cpdeyoung


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The reason the United is concerned with trespass is that the entire Finnish armed forces are disbanded. The Finnish Border Guard posts have been turned into tourist literature stands. The only people in uniform in Finland are the municipal police.

The United States has zero concern with Finnish military affairs. The Soviet Union has but to look across the border to realize the US does not sit on their border. Only Finnish citizens on picnics.

The only deterrent to another nation entering Finland is that it would end American isolationism. The United States has stated that they will not defend Finland, and will make peace if any incident occurs.

It may well be that no one wants to enter Finland, but a few trucks and some infantry could take the country in a month. If the Italians wanted a northern vacation area they could ship some troops and borrow a vessel from Germany and have Finland. It is there for the taking. Perhaps Japan would be interested ... or maybe the USSR?

FDR

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/13/2016 11:19:19 PM   
cpdeyoung


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Oops, it has been pointed out that many Finnish musical bands wear uniforms also.

FDR

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/14/2016 3:06:50 PM   
LJBurstyn

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

The reason the United is concerned with trespass is that the entire Finnish armed forces are disbanded. The Finnish Border Guard posts have been turned into tourist literature stands. The only people in uniform in Finland are the municipal police.

The United States has zero concern with Finnish military affairs. The Soviet Union has but to look across the border to realize the US does not sit on their border. Only Finnish citizens on picnics.

The only deterrent to another nation entering Finland is that it would end American isolationism. The United States has stated that they will not defend Finland, and will make peace if any incident occurs.

It may well be that no one wants to enter Finland, but a few trucks and some infantry could take the country in a month. If the Italians wanted a northern vacation area they could ship some troops and borrow a vessel from Germany and have Finland. It is there for the taking. Perhaps Japan would be interested ... or maybe the USSR?

FDR


The USSR takes the USA at it's word. But we cannot take the chance that some "unfriendly" major power will take over land so close to our Leningrad. So we will be
sending in some troops to maintain the safety of our borders.

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/14/2016 3:51:09 PM   
cpdeyoung


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The United States understands the Soviet concerns.

We welcome an offer to establish normal relations with the Soviet Union after the friction of your operation.

FDR

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/14/2016 3:55:59 PM   
ironduke1955


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I am afraid there may be a little to do if the Neutrality of the US is broken in such a way, one the arguments are flawed all players will be aware that a attack on the USA will break neutrality, therefore it is highly unlikely that a "Unfriendly" Major Power will do the US this enormous favour, and if as it seems that this is being done between friendly powers, we have I would say a manipulation of the mods rules similar to the house rules on attacking minor nations friendly to a Major Powers allies. If the Soviet Union and the USA can guarantee to remain enemies for the remainder of the game then this Declaration of war may proceed, any quick peace agreements will smell fishy.

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/14/2016 4:35:46 PM   
Bombur

 

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It seems not fair to me too....but we didn´t implement this house rule in this game

< Message edited by Bombur -- 7/14/2016 4:39:07 PM >

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/14/2016 4:45:49 PM   
cpdeyoung


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These are not the old victory conditions.

Frankly I am surprised the Axis was formed at all. We know of no powers friendly to the United States, or any unfriendly either. The United States has no idea where we will go with isolation defeated.

The Soviet Union and the United States have no predisposition be allies. We may or may not.

The United States offered a prompt peace to anyone who would enter Finland, and this will be executed. Germany missed an incredible chance to gain a back door to British positions, and a front doorstep to Leningrad. The Soviets would be very foolish to allow an empty Finland to exist next door. Any Soviet action in Finland is driven by this imperative. There is no quid pro quo of an alliance to follow.

However the USA reserves the right to make any diplomatic arrangements it wishes, without consultation with the German Foreign Office. If the USSR, or any other power, enters Finland we will accept an offer of peace from them, or will offer peace if they do not. We would have done the same for Germany, Italy or Japan.

The USA engineered a situation in Finland where we believed isolationism would be breeched. This was our intention and the nation which entered Finland only a tool.

In another "world" FDR might have put incredible pressure on Japan with sanctions and embargoes, leading to an attack. In this world FDR decided to put the pressure point in Finland.

FDR

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/14/2016 5:24:09 PM   
ironduke1955


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So the precedent for future games is that US Isolationism can be ended by "Diplomatic Arrangements" something I would not have considered. Makes you wonder why it has not been used before

< Message edited by ironduke1955 -- 7/14/2016 5:27:16 PM >

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/14/2016 5:40:55 PM   
cpdeyoung


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It was used by Roosevelt - no stinking 60 PP per turn for him!

FDR

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/14/2016 6:11:49 PM   
ironduke1955


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Can't say I blame him, however I doubt FDR will be winning any popularity races in Finland, a bullet proof vest may be in order if he visits Finland.

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/14/2016 6:42:09 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

It was used by Roosevelt - no stinking 60 PP per turn for him!

FDR


In truth, it can be construed that way. However there was an amount of lobbying too. However if the analog is to be made for FDR and Japan, I must mention that USA defended that piece of land with vigour, and that they might well have fought Japan alone, and never attacked Germany, had it not been for the fact that Hitler DOW'ed USA a few days later. ...

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/14/2016 8:14:43 PM   
cpdeyoung


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I just read a book "1941 : Fighting the Shadow War." by Marc Wortman which deals with this period. He makes clear how much Roosevelt wanted America to throw its weight upon the scales, but he knew it was going to be very difficult. The tide was turning against isolationism however. The disbanding of all Finnish forces was intended to force someone, anyone, to release us from isolationism. I have no idea who the "bad guys" are yet.

I really do not have a chance of defending Finland proper, and, frankly, the USA is still not strong enough to deter the three power Axis. I am not kidding when I say I have no plans for my future. The USSR has a very valid chance at victory, but the formation this early of an Axis surprises the USA. We thought Italy and Japan might join the USA in the wait and see camp. Just now we want to become strong enough to matter.

FDR

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/16/2016 4:29:37 PM   
baloo7777


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Italy detests the use of the poor people of Finland as pawns in a political game. We do however, understand why the Soviet Union would want to protect itself and make commerce and military agreements with Finland and offer its well respected armed forces as protection, As to the President of the United States surprise that Italy would join with its likeminded neighbors in trade and alliances, it is a good thing we did as the Franco-English surprise attack has brought our nation to the brink of disaster both economically and militarily. We thank our great ally, Germany, for rushing troops and air units to our borders without reservation, or we would no longer be a free people.

Musolini

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/18/2016 6:29:51 AM   
cpdeyoung


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The State Department wishes to clarify the US position regarding Finland.

The Finns approached the United States seeking a protector. The US Congress refused the Executive's request to engage in the defense of Finland. The existing Finnish troops could not be reinforced, as no permission could be obtained from a Great Power in Scandinavia or the Baltic area, to allow US troops to join the Finns. This was forbidden by the isolationist Congress anyway.

Not being able to defend the Finns the US advised the Finns to do away with their military and become a pacifist nation. It was widely predicted that the Finns would have a "protectorship" imposed upon them by Germany, Great Britain or the USSR, but such has not been the case. The Finns, far from being pawns are now out of the war, and her troops will not be in battle. If a power does enter Finland and seek volunteers they may enlist, but her current military will not have shed their blood.

----------

As Italy has joined this open forum on diplomacy the State Department wants to point out that the Franco-British declaration of war on Italy may have occurred because of their alliance with Germany. Perhaps if Italy had joined the USA in "wait and see" they would not be in the current conflict. On the other hand perhaps the Franco-British would have chosen war with Italy in either case. We respect all the nations in the current conflict and the multi-cultural USA has deep connections on both sides of this war. We would be pleased to act as brokers in a peace. If we are seen as biased perhaps direct negotiations could be initiated between the warring powers. If this war continues it may expand, and no one wants a Second World War.

FDR

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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/18/2016 4:25:08 PM   
ironduke1955


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Germany cannot blame the Finns for seeking a protector, Germany also believes that the best power to offer some degree of neutrality to Finland would be the USA. So Germany appeals to the US Congress to reconsider the presidents request to make Finland a US protectorate, after all we are dealing with the democratic expression of a desire for freedom from the Finish people, a thing to cherish not leave to be crushed. And of course it is not for Germany to meddle with internal US politics but it feels as if the international nature of the Finnish request effects the the World and Europe as a whole.

In Norway and Sweden the British are gradually losing their foothold in Scandinavia, the German presence in Northern Italy has been increased.

Germany is heartened that peace in the far east holds, with China and Japan enjoying the fruits of the recent peace treaty, long may the treaty hold.




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RE: GD1938 Game 23 - 7/19/2016 4:26:33 AM   
baloo7777


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Italy wishes to point out to any country that will listen, that the Franco-British Empire initiated the present war with a surprise attack on the peace loving people of Italy. If a sovereign nation makes trade agreements and has a similar ideology with its neighbor nations, what then gives another nation that may not like that alliance of commerce and ideology the right to attack said nation?
It should be noted that other nations have seen the Franco-British Empires aggression and have decided to throw their lot in with the Italians...most notably the recent alliance of Spain and Italy, or even Portugal turning to the USA to become a protectorate. It is interesting that the US Congress had no problem with Portugal turning to the US for protection, but the same did not hold true for the Finns. Perhaps is time for the US to make good on whatever promises it gave to Finland, as it has in Portugal.

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