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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/6/2018 8:38:27 AM   
wdolson

 

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We don't have cockroaches here. My SO has lived most of her life in the Northwest and never saw a cockroach until she was in Louisiana. I found rosemary deters deer too. Deer are legion around here. Cheeky buggers too. They just stand and look at you until you get about an arm's length from them. I hit one with a rock once and it just looked at me. A few days ago I found a deer must have climbed in the window of the greenhouse to eat the strawberry plants. The scallions I had growing in there didn't deter the deer, though they didn't eat the scallions.

We already had some rosemary planted when I put in some blueberry bushes. The blueberries next to the rosemary are never bothered by the deer, they chomp the other blueberries. I did catch a racoon picking berries last year. I thought it was neighborhood kids because only the ripest berries were picked and they were taken from spots too high for rabbits and too deep in the bush for birds. Damn critters with opposable thumbs!

Lots of wild mammals around here.


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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/6/2018 2:04:43 PM   
Lecivius


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Something to ponder








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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/6/2018 2:35:44 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Something to ponder









Where is this cold-and-dirty looking beach?

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/6/2018 2:43:33 PM   
patrickl


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It is 6 Jun. That is Normandy.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/6/2018 3:22:18 PM   
Lecivius


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Omaha Beach, to be precise. Looking at this picture, imagining a stormy sea, that enormous expanse of sand, and the bluffs to the left manned by veteran troops with heavy and automatic weapons...


Jesus wept.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/6/2018 5:55:37 PM   
joey


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I had a great uncle that was there on June 6, 1944. He never spoke of that day.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/6/2018 7:57:54 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Omaha Beach, to be precise. Looking at this picture, imagining a stormy sea, that enormous expanse of sand, and the bluffs to the left manned by veteran troops with heavy and automatic weapons...


Jesus wept.

Indeed.

xxxxx


Can it be classified as stormy sea that morning? And the defenders as veteran troops?

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/6/2018 8:54:46 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Omaha Beach, to be precise. Looking at this picture, imagining a stormy sea, that enormous expanse of sand, and the bluffs to the left manned by veteran troops with heavy and automatic weapons...


Jesus wept.

Indeed.

xxxxx


Can it be classified as stormy sea that morning? And the defenders as veteran troops?


Yes- the landing took place in the one-day lull between two very strong storms and the sea was still choppy from the first one. Almost all the troops were seasick.
Yes - worn-out veterans of the war against the Russians were often sent to quiet fronts to rest up and to share their expertise with non-veteran troops.


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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/6/2018 8:58:16 PM   
Lecivius


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Oh, it was stormy. The waves swamped & sank the tanks with skirts, and the LCT's. So there goes your close in support.

Defenders were the 352 Infantry division, made up of survivors from various units from the Eastern front, mingled with fresh troops straight out of training.

Imagine trying to run across all that sand, with a full pack, in the rain, seasick, green as grass, cold as all get out, confused and terrified, into a good half dozen machine gun nests, rifle trenches, mortar fire, direct artillery, and gawd knows what else. This particular attack almost failed. There was serious thought of abandoning the beach. The guys that finally went past the one sea wall & fanned out...almost defies the imagination.

< Message edited by Lecivius -- 6/11/2018 3:23:02 PM >


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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/7/2018 1:58:25 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius
The waves swamped & sank the tanks with skits


The reenactment of 'Who's on First' must have been disastrous to behold.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/7/2018 5:28:05 AM   
Kursk1943

 

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Recently I read a really interesting alternative history book about it:






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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/7/2018 3:29:17 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kursk1943

Recently I read a really interesting alternative history book about it:






Can you at least give us an idea if he came up with a plausible plot and had good writing? How long after D-Day does the book cover?

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/7/2018 5:37:38 PM   
rsallen64


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I grew up next to a neighbor that was at Omaha that day. He told me that the officers had a white bar painted on their helmets to identify them to their men (you can see this in Saving Private Ryan, I believe). The Germans caught on quickly, and began picking off the officers. He said you never saw guys grab mud and sand so quick to smear on their helmets. I actually convinced him to come to my High School history class in the very early 1980's and talk about his experiences. He was very nervous, but did a great job. He brought some stuff from the war with him, including a map he saved from the invasion. It was a very moving experience for me, especially after his wife told me he never talked about the war to her, but he liked me a lot (he was a civil engineer and was teaching me things, and used to take me along on jobs he did after he officially retired, so I could earn some money in my early teens), and agreed to come to my school because he liked and respected me. He served in Italy, Normandy and the Bulge, and they offered him a commission to go to the Pacific after VE Day, He told them to go to hell.

He passed a few years ago.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/7/2018 6:57:43 PM   
Kursk1943

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kursk1943

Recently I read a really interesting alternative history book about it:






Can you at least give us an idea if he came up with a plausible plot and had good writing? How long after D-Day does the book cover?

Well, I'm no native speaker, so I don't dare judging the writing style, but it was good reading for me. The description at Amazon characterizes it quite well:

"Tsouras firmly bases his narrative on facts but introduces minor adjustments at the opening of the campaign-the repositioning of a unit, bad weather and misjudged orders-and examines their effect as they gather momentum and impact on all subsequent events. Without deviating from the genuine possibilities of the situation, he presents a scenario that keeps the reader guessing and changes the course of history."

The story finishes end of June 1944.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/7/2018 9:33:39 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

I did catch a racoon picking berries last year.


I've heard mint will keep them away. Don't know if its true though.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/7/2018 9:35:47 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

green as grass,


IIRC for the 29th ID, yes. Not so for the 'Big Red One' behind them though.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/11/2018 10:44:02 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rsallen64

I grew up next to a neighbor that was at Omaha that day. He told me that the officers had a white bar painted on their helmets to identify them to their men (you can see this in Saving Private Ryan, I believe). The Germans caught on quickly, and began picking off the officers. He said you never saw guys grab mud and sand so quick to smear on their helmets. I actually convinced him to come to my High School history class in the very early 1980's and talk about his experiences. He was very nervous, but did a great job. He brought some stuff from the war with him, including a map he saved from the invasion. It was a very moving experience for me, especially after his wife told me he never talked about the war to her, but he liked me a lot (he was a civil engineer and was teaching me things, and used to take me along on jobs he did after he officially retired, so I could earn some money in my early teens), and agreed to come to my school because he liked and respected me. He served in Italy, Normandy and the Bulge, and they offered him a commission to go to the Pacific after VE Day, He told them to go to hell.

He passed a few years ago.


I thought the white bar was on the back of the helmet, though a sniper might catch a glimpse now and then.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/12/2018 1:16:04 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
I thought the white bar was on the back of the helmet, though a sniper might catch a glimpse now and then.


I am almost positive the bar was on the front. I'll have to go looking.

<edit>

And once again I am proven wrong. Hard to find a pic, a lot of them must have ditched the target helmets straight away, but I did find this one.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lecivius -- 6/12/2018 1:28:59 PM >


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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/12/2018 1:30:03 PM   
tarkalak

 

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It is on this page somewhere 2/3rds down.

http://www.101airborneww2.com/equipment2.html

White bar makes you more manly I guess.

An officer would have to maintain situational awareness and I think he would need to look in all directions at times, so snipers might still see his stripe.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/12/2018 3:53:05 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
I thought the white bar was on the back of the helmet, though a sniper might catch a glimpse now and then.


I am almost positive the bar was on the front. I'll have to go looking.

<edit>

And once again I am proven wrong. Hard to find a pic, a lot of them must have ditched the target helmets straight away, but I did find this one.




The white arc on the front of the helmet must indicate the unit or perhaps medics. I can't see that many officers assisting one wounded man when there must be orders to give. So that means one of the other guys has a white vertical strip that looks like medical tape on the front/top of his helmet and the guy on the right has it on the back of his.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 6/12/2018 3:54:08 PM >


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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/12/2018 4:47:31 PM   
Lecivius


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I have seen multiple pics of the forward white arc on helmets. But this is the only pic I can find of actual Normandy troops with the white vertical, and it's on the back.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/12/2018 5:15:50 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I have seen multiple pics of the forward white arc on helmets. But this is the only pic I can find of actual Normandy troops with the white vertical, and it's on the back.

What is the white arc? I don't recall seeing that before.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/12/2018 7:18:36 PM   
rsallen64


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If the white bar was on the back, and my understanding is it was so the troops following behind could see you clearly, the officer would still expose it when he turned around to motion to his troops or to check on the position of those following, and that's when the Germans would see it. That's how my former neighbor explained it.

On an aside, he said he sent back some souvenirs to his wife. One was a giant Nazi banner that was large enough to stretch across a street. She liked the red in it, and cut it up to make a bedspread, curtains, and pillow cases! It was quite large.

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/12/2018 7:37:35 PM   
MakeeLearn

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I have seen multiple pics of the forward white arc on helmets. But this is the only pic I can find of actual Normandy troops with the white vertical, and it's on the back.

What is the white arc? I don't recall seeing that before.



SEB-Special Engineer Brigade and NBB-Navy Beach Battalion








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< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 6/12/2018 7:47:57 PM >

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/12/2018 7:42:11 PM   
MakeeLearn

 

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A site dedicated to the soldiers of the six Army Engineer Special Brigades

http://ebsr.net/ESBhistory.htm




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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/12/2018 7:45:44 PM   
MakeeLearn

 

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WWII M-1 Helmet NBB Navy Beach Battalion. Normandy D-Day








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< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 6/12/2018 7:49:39 PM >

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/12/2018 7:54:32 PM   
witpqs


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Thanks guys!

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/14/2018 1:13:42 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Omaha Beach, to be precise. Looking at this picture, imagining a stormy sea, that enormous expanse of sand, and the bluffs to the left manned by veteran troops with heavy and automatic weapons...


Jesus wept.

Indeed.

xxxxx


Can it be classified as stormy sea that morning? And the defenders as veteran troops?


Yes- the landing took place in the one-day lull between two very strong storms and the sea was still choppy from the first one. Almost all the troops were seasick.
Yes - worn-out veterans of the war against the Russians were often sent to quiet fronts to rest up and to share their expertise with non-veteran troops.


I suppose I must translate stormy seas wrongly then.

And calling a combination of worn-out veterans, new recruits, and 'Ost volunteers', for veteran troops seems somewhat wrong to me as well. By that definition you could equally well call them for green troops.




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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/14/2018 1:23:43 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I do not think I have a favourite critter.

Although once I had a favourite T-shirt with a picture of a blood filled mosquito on the back.


Cool! Where can I get one?

It had a picture of a mosquito filled with blood on the back. The text on the front was "Kiruna is best". And the text on the back (along with the picture) was "10 billion mosquitos can't be wrong".

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RE: OT Things to ponder - 6/14/2018 8:50:59 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn


A site dedicated to the soldiers of the six Army Engineer Special Brigades

http://ebsr.net/ESBhistory.htm





This one is a lieutenant's bar on the front (and on the shoulders) not the big fat white bar on the back of any Looey or Cap'n on D-Day, and D-Day only, I believe.

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