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Needs for improvement - 3/22/2016 10:23:47 PM   
Micke II


Posts: 218
Joined: 9/15/2007
From: Paris France
Status: offline
i have bought this game 2 weeks ago and I have great fun with it. The new scenarios designed from the ASL scenarios are particularly
valuable.
This game has all ingredients to become a must, nevertheless a lot of improvemenents need to be implemented.
1/ pick up of several units in the same hex: why there is no double click system with the mouse instead of use
the ctrl key which is really boaring.
2/ why there is no hidden system for units which has not yet fired ?
3/ there is no possibility to tow guns with vehicles or to carry infantry on AFV. It's really a pity.
4/ the off board artillery effects are sometimes not visible on the map because there is no scrolling system to follow actions on the map.
5/ there is no mines, neither wires.
6/ No human wawes.
7/ No beserk units or snipers or commissars.
8/ the system of demolition charges is broken.
9/ and the most worrying: there is no possibility to play human versus human on line.



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RE: Needs for improvement - 3/22/2016 10:34:36 PM   
Paullus

 

Posts: 894
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: Sweden
Status: offline
There is a way for your point 9. Check out this thread http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4042900

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For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus

(in reply to Micke II)
Post #: 2
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/22/2016 11:07:07 PM   
idjester

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Micke II

i have bought this game 2 weeks ago and I have great fun with it. The new scenarios designed from the ASL scenarios are particularly
valuable.
This game has all ingredients to become a must, nevertheless a lot of improvemenents need to be implemented.
1/ pick up of several units in the same hex: why there is no double click system with the mouse instead of use
the ctrl key which is really boaring.
2/ why there is no hidden system for units which has not yet fired ?
3/ there is no possibility to tow guns with vehicles or to carry infantry on AFV. It's really a pity.
4/ the off board artillery effects are sometimes not visible on the map because there is no scrolling system to follow actions on the map.
5/ there is no mines, neither wires.
6/ No human wawes.
7/ No beserk units or snipers or commissars.
8/ the system of demolition charges is broken.
9/ and the most worrying: there is no possibility to play human versus human on line.




I hate to say this again but I will.... "sigh"...

Tigers on the Hunt isn't an exact copy of ASL, this game is just "strongly inspired" by ASL. Therefore some of the rules for ASL will not be incorporated into the game. Players coming to these forums and constantly posting what "needs" to be added to the game just don't get it.

The ASL rulebook is over 400 pages long and do we really, really, need to add in all of those options into the game? No. Snipers- not needed. By-pass movement -not needed. Human wave -not needed. And the list goes on an on. The reason people don't want to get into and play ASL is because they spend 3/4 of their time in the rule book and looking up rules. And the rules that are added to ASL just make it more complex for NO real purpose. Memorize 4 more pages of rules just to add in one more feature. There comes a line that needs to be drawn where "complexity" overshadows "playability".

This game isn't going to be an exact copy of ASL, even if Peter spends all of his time working on it, It would take a team of programmers to try and incorporate all of the silly rules from ASL. For players to not appreciate what is "IN" the game is a darn shame. At least players can get in and play the game and have fun and not have to lookup every rule they aren't sure about.

I guess I just need to copy and paste this post for the next 20 people that come here telling us "what is missing" from the game.





< Message edited by idjester -- 3/22/2016 11:21:00 PM >

(in reply to Micke II)
Post #: 3
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 12:00:27 AM   
Gerry4321

 

Posts: 858
Joined: 3/24/2003
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We don't have to think about copying ASL but rather what features are common in tactical games. The beauty of TotH is that it automates rules for us. So features like walls, wire etc. could be added. Of course it will take programming but that is what Peter and expansions can do. Looks like the community is already providing content with more to come from Jorgen.

(in reply to idjester)
Post #: 4
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 1:04:32 AM   
idjester

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gerry

We don't have to think about copying ASL but rather what features are common in tactical games. The beauty of TotH is that it automates rules for us. So features like walls, wire etc. could be added. Of course it will take programming but that is what Peter and expansions can do. Looks like the community is already providing content with more to come from Jorgen.


Sure adding in some features to the game would be great and we all would look forward to that but trying to change TOTH to be an exact copy of ASL would be unrealistic at best.

There are certain things I am sure can be added but TOTH but its not going to end up being an exact copy of ASL.


< Message edited by idjester -- 3/23/2016 1:06:30 AM >

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 5
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 2:35:09 PM   
Gerry4321

 

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I don't think I have ever seen you request a feature?

(in reply to idjester)
Post #: 6
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 2:45:27 PM   
kylania

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 1/2/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: idjester

I guess I just need to copy and paste this post for the next 20 people that come here telling us "what is missing" from the game.



Nope. You can just let them express what they want from this game just like you have. Constantly coming down on new customers because they want something different than you is not helpful.

Peter is free to add or not add any feature he wants just as he's free to ignore or incorporate any feedback or suggestions as he wants.

(in reply to idjester)
Post #: 7
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 2:49:13 PM   
Gerry4321

 

Posts: 858
Joined: 3/24/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kylania


quote:

ORIGINAL: idjester

I guess I just need to copy and paste this post for the next 20 people that come here telling us "what is missing" from the game.



Nope. You can just let them express what they want from this game just like you have. Constantly coming down on new customers because they want something different than you is not helpful.

Peter is free to add or not add any feature he wants just as he's free to ignore or incorporate any feedback or suggestions as he wants.


+1

(in reply to kylania)
Post #: 8
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 2:58:18 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 833
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline
+100. The original poster in this thread said nothing about making this game exactly like ASL.

Micke II simply listed a bunch of stuff that would be great to have in the game. Most of the items suggested don't necessarily have to add complexity and pages of rules to the game. Simplify them and let us play with them.

Sure, some of it is not necessary. But, there is still a ton of stuff missing from this game that a tactical game of this scale needs. And, it has all been mentioned in this forum in one thread or another.

If you're going to be a bully and silence everyone's suggestions, then this game will stagnate, and I will have no interest in this community.


(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 9
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 3:59:17 PM   
wodin


Posts: 9822
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
No we don't need them...however what people are really waiting for with regards of a tactical wargame is one that has all the things you mentioned.

A game going for the look and feel of ASL in my opinion has to have what makes ASL ..ASL..abnd that is all the depth and detail. Then the beauty would be all hose rules etc going on unde rthe hood!

I truely hope over time TotH does have as many of the things you've mentioned as a feature. Then I'd buy in an instant and could garuntee it would become an all time classic.


quote:

ORIGINAL: idjester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Micke II

i have bought this game 2 weeks ago and I have great fun with it. The new scenarios designed from the ASL scenarios are particularly
valuable.
This game has all ingredients to become a must, nevertheless a lot of improvemenents need to be implemented.
1/ pick up of several units in the same hex: why there is no double click system with the mouse instead of use
the ctrl key which is really boaring.
2/ why there is no hidden system for units which has not yet fired ?
3/ there is no possibility to tow guns with vehicles or to carry infantry on AFV. It's really a pity.
4/ the off board artillery effects are sometimes not visible on the map because there is no scrolling system to follow actions on the map.
5/ there is no mines, neither wires.
6/ No human wawes.
7/ No beserk units or snipers or commissars.
8/ the system of demolition charges is broken.
9/ and the most worrying: there is no possibility to play human versus human on line.




I hate to say this again but I will.... "sigh"...

Tigers on the Hunt isn't an exact copy of ASL, this game is just "strongly inspired" by ASL. Therefore some of the rules for ASL will not be incorporated into the game. Players coming to these forums and constantly posting what "needs" to be added to the game just don't get it.

The ASL rulebook is over 400 pages long and do we really, really, need to add in all of those options into the game? No. Snipers- not needed. By-pass movement -not needed. Human wave -not needed. And the list goes on an on. The reason people don't want to get into and play ASL is because they spend 3/4 of their time in the rule book and looking up rules. And the rules that are added to ASL just make it more complex for NO real purpose. Memorize 4 more pages of rules just to add in one more feature. There comes a line that needs to be drawn where "complexity" overshadows "playability".

This game isn't going to be an exact copy of ASL, even if Peter spends all of his time working on it, It would take a team of programmers to try and incorporate all of the silly rules from ASL. For players to not appreciate what is "IN" the game is a darn shame. At least players can get in and play the game and have fun and not have to lookup every rule they aren't sure about.

I guess I just need to copy and paste this post for the next 20 people that come here telling us "what is missing" from the game.







_____________________________


(in reply to idjester)
Post #: 10
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 4:06:56 PM   
dox44

 

Posts: 567
Joined: 5/7/2000
From: the woodlands, texas
Status: offline
so the real question for some then becomes how much closer can TotH get to ASL and remain 'inspired'...assuming that TotH is the result of addition that may give some hope...but it
may be the product of subtraction in which case fix the bugs, clean the UI and give them a couple of countries is the reality.

still not a bad deal at all for $49.00.








(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 11
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 4:27:42 PM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1160
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
I think one thing people need to remember is that, the closer this game comes to being 'exactly like ASL', the sooner the Hasborg lawyers will put a stop to it and that will be the end of TotH. IMHO, this is already an outstanding game, it just needs the adding of more content and further tweaks.

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Post #: 12
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 5:53:38 PM   
Micke II


Posts: 218
Joined: 9/15/2007
From: Paris France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: idjester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Micke II

i have bought this game 2 weeks ago and I have great fun with it. The new scenarios designed from the ASL scenarios are particularly
valuable.
This game has all ingredients to become a must, nevertheless a lot of improvemenents need to be implemented.
1/ pick up of several units in the same hex: why there is no double click system with the mouse instead of use
the ctrl key which is really boaring.
2/ why there is no hidden system for units which has not yet fired ?
3/ there is no possibility to tow guns with vehicles or to carry infantry on AFV. It's really a pity.
4/ the off board artillery effects are sometimes not visible on the map because there is no scrolling system to follow actions on the map.
5/ there is no mines, neither wires.
6/ No human wawes.
7/ No beserk units or snipers or commissars.
8/ the system of demolition charges is broken.
9/ and the most worrying: there is no possibility to play human versus human on line.




I hate to say this again but I will.... "sigh"...

Tigers on the Hunt isn't an exact copy of ASL, this game is just "strongly inspired" by ASL. Therefore some of the rules for ASL will not be incorporated into the game. Players coming to these forums and constantly posting what "needs" to be added to the game just don't get it.

The ASL rulebook is over 400 pages long and do we really, really, need to add in all of those options into the game? No. Snipers- not needed. By-pass movement -not needed. Human wave -not needed. And the list goes on an on. The reason people don't want to get into and play ASL is because they spend 3/4 of their time in the rule book and looking up rules. And the rules that are added to ASL just make it more complex for NO real purpose. Memorize 4 more pages of rules just to add in one more feature. There comes a line that needs to be drawn where "complexity" overshadows "playability".

This game isn't going to be an exact copy of ASL, even if Peter spends all of his time working on it, It would take a team of programmers to try and incorporate all of the silly rules from ASL. For players to not appreciate what is "IN" the game is a darn shame. At least players can get in and play the game and have fun and not have to lookup every rule they aren't sure about.

I guess I just need to copy and paste this post for the next 20 people that come here telling us "what is missing" from the game.






I have never seen a game 100 % perfect in V1. My post was just asking improvements for some parts of the game. I am
a bit surprised by your post which is considering that everything is OK in the best world or as we say in French "go away
there is nothing to see"
I recognize my request on points 6 and 7 was inspired by ASL.
The point 1 is a normal request to improve ergonomy of the game.
Point 4 and 8 should be add in a new mod.
For point 9 I got an answer. Many thanks.
Point 2, 3, 5 should add chrome and fun to this game.

< Message edited by Micke II -- 3/23/2016 5:54:35 PM >


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Post #: 13
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 5:54:10 PM   
gregb41352

 

Posts: 131
Joined: 10/5/2013
Status: offline
Well I for one hope TOTH doesn't become ASL. I don't feel like reading through pages
and pages of rules for an event that would happen once in every 10 scenarios.

Sure, I'd like to see more countries added (France :) and some other tweaks but Peter
is, understandably, concentrating on bug fixes and other issues right now. There does
seem to be an issue with British demo charges...I can't get them to work.

Those that want to play ASL......just play ASL.

< Message edited by gobadgers -- 3/23/2016 5:58:01 PM >

(in reply to DoubleDeuce)
Post #: 14
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 5:58:27 PM   
idjester

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline
There is already a forum to ask for additional features if that is what the original poster wanted to do. But infact his post was about things that are missing from the game and improvements to the game. Those improvements listed were infact directly related to making this game exactly like ASL.

There is a big difference between asking for things you would like in the game and stating that there are missing from the game. When you state things are missing from the game you are therefore "EXPECTING" certain things within the game. Meaning there are things you expect in the game which are not there. So you are comparing this game to something else --aka ASL.

The core of ASL is there, much more so than expected without all of the extra nonsense rules that bog the system down. If you want all of that BS stuff, that adds nothing to the game besides extra rules, than I would suggest you go out and do what Peter did and program the game yourself. But don't come here saying there are missing things in this game because you "expect" things to be exactly like ASL.

You can ask for additional features to be added beyond what is included in the game, which if you watched any of my videos you would have seen me suggest as well.




(in reply to DoubleDeuce)
Post #: 15
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 6:07:12 PM   
Gerry4321

 

Posts: 858
Joined: 3/24/2003
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Is ASL the only system that allows the towing of Guns, mines, etc? Of course not. He is just asking for what people want in a great tactical system.

You have taken on the role of a gatekeeper for Peter. Please just let people request what they would like without commentaries about how difficult it would be to implement.

The game will live or die based on the improvements over the next year or so. I bought it as I thought it was a good starting point and I am enjoying it. But I cannot wait for those multi-level buildings!

< Message edited by Gerry -- 3/23/2016 6:11:18 PM >

(in reply to idjester)
Post #: 16
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 6:24:55 PM   
barkhorn45

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
How is wanting afv's like HT carry inf.trying to make toth exactly like asl?
Or for that matter #3 or 4?

(in reply to idjester)
Post #: 17
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 6:43:21 PM   
Micke II


Posts: 218
Joined: 9/15/2007
From: Paris France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkhorn45

How is wanting afv's like HT carry inf.trying to make toth exactly like asl?
Or for that matter #3 or 4?


Infantry tranport on AFV was a characteristic of the Russian tank armies which started in mid 1943. It's not a question of ASL or not ASL.

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Post #: 18
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 7:06:46 PM   
barkhorn45

 

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Status: offline
I know I was responding to criticism of your post as to wanting to make Toth "exactly"like asl.

(in reply to Micke II)
Post #: 19
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 8:00:16 PM   
MikeMarchant_ssl

 

Posts: 80
Joined: 2/26/2016
Status: offline
It seems to me that Mickie II's post was entirely reasonable.

Vive la France!


Best Wishes

Mike

(in reply to barkhorn45)
Post #: 20
RE: Needs for improvement - 3/23/2016 8:24:23 PM   
Alejo1968


Posts: 101
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline

Well... I think bypass movement IS needed. I´m not saying "it should be available", I mean it would be definetly useful. Why should I expose myself to defensive fire if I can go round that house/woods/whatever, and avoid being seen by the enemy...?
This just makes hex boardgames less limited.

< Message edited by Abbeville_01 -- 3/23/2016 8:27:15 PM >

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 21
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