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So, is it worth it? - 3/12/2016 7:31:52 PM   
DaBoost

 

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Hi.

As the title says, that's my question. I noticed there are a bunch of scenarios, but they all seemed to be quite low in turn numbers, which isn't really my thing. Do they play out slow or are they bite sized things?

Also, kinda worried about what I've read about the AI. Has it been worked on or is it as lackluster as it seems?

Not to sound like a douche, much respect for the developer. Just being a bit cautious.

Cheers.
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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/12/2016 7:41:07 PM   
GregN

 

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Totally subjective, but my opinion is that it is worth it. Some scenarios are short ( I like that as I like to finish in one sitting), but long ones are being offered to, ie. campaign ones and check out the Omaha Beach scenario under mods. The AI is good, but that is my opinion and your mileage may vary. It's not perfect, but if I was I'd never win!

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/12/2016 7:44:07 PM   
DaBoost

 

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Sure, I realize the AI is often lacking in games. Case in point, a big fan of the Graviteam games, which have a horrid AI, but it's still enjoyable.

I'm just trying to be honest with myself here. I like the idea of a lot of games and they often are polished and a quality product, but I just enjoy the longer dedicated scenarios/campaigns. Adds to the immersion I guess.

Thanks for the reply.

PS. I should probably add that I enjoy Squad Battles, Panzer Corps etc. even though they have shorter scenarios, but still have campaigns that are more of a long haul. It's just that I feel like smaller scenarios tend to end up being more of a puzzle game than a tactical wargame. If that makes any sense.

< Message edited by JM230 -- 3/12/2016 7:50:31 PM >

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/12/2016 7:53:02 PM   
GregN

 

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The scenario editor can create games with 12 boards for the map and 504 turns long - and it takes me an hour to play 6 turns. I think that would take a long time to complete - if you're interested!

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/12/2016 7:54:28 PM   
DaBoost

 

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Sure, that seems like an appropriate length of playtime considering the turn count. Thanks!

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/12/2016 10:13:50 PM   
36142CP


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Low turn numbers maybe, but you will have to make numerous and serious choices within those few turns that will take time and careful consideration, rush in, or go into the open and your squads will get slotted The AI on normal isn't too much trouble on most scenario's, creates the odd bit of mischief, however on hard I have found it will put up a very good fight indeed but I like a challenge The scenario's are limitless, if it isn't available you can make it, quite easily too. It's not like the old call of duty editors fortunately. The only issue I'm going to have with the game is having time to play it, I've got work and other things on the go. A small price to pay for the amount of enjoyment it will bring, what else can you get these days for £37:99 My thoughts!

< Message edited by 36142CP -- 3/12/2016 10:15:59 PM >

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/13/2016 1:09:33 AM   
dynaman216

 

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For single player gaming it is one of the best out there, once you get past the clunky UI. The AI in defense is usually pretty decent and since I have not seen an AI that can handle offensive action in a wargame (chess is another matter) I can't fault it for falling for stupid tricks.

As has been said, even the short turn length games are very good since they require (as in ASL) finesse in order to win.

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/13/2016 6:11:35 PM   
Dorb


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If you liked, MHW Lock'n Load Heroes of Stalingrad and Conflict of Heroes, you cannot go wrong with this one.

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/14/2016 4:37:46 AM   
Perelandra67

 

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good game, but not "hard core" like the description says. Was a let down for me. Great entry level game, but beware if you're looking for a complex game.

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/14/2016 8:32:16 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorb

If you liked, MHW Lock'n Load Heroes of Stalingrad and Conflict of Heroes, you cannot go wrong with this one.


I didn't like those very much. Lock n Load didn't have any random maps and CoH was too slow with the igougo 1 at a time method of play.

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/14/2016 8:33:50 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dynaman216

For single player gaming it is one of the best out there, once you get past the clunky UI. The AI in defense is usually pretty decent and since I have not seen an AI that can handle offensive action in a wargame (chess is another matter) I can't fault it for falling for stupid tricks.

As has been said, even the short turn length games are very good since they require (as in ASL) finesse in order to win.


You've obviously never played "War of the Lance" then because it had a very good offensive AI. One of the hardest I've ever played and that was on normal. I hate to think what hard would be like.

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/14/2016 9:53:45 PM   
parusski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JM230

Hi.

As the title says, that's my question. I noticed there are a bunch of scenarios, but they all seemed to be quite low in turn numbers, which isn't really my thing. Do they play out slow or are they bite sized things?

Also, kinda worried about what I've read about the AI. Has it been worked on or is it as lackluster as it seems?

Not to sound like a douche, much respect for the developer. Just being a bit cautious.

Cheers.


Hell yes it is worth it. As far as the low number of scenarios-those numbers are growing faster than I thought. If I counted correctly there have been 44 new scenarios created by players since release(thanks for the list Paullus). 36142CP makes a great point about the number of turns. Sure, maybe several of the scenarios have 5-9 turns, but you must learn how to fight tactically and make many decisions during each turn. Many scenarios I have played have turned into that (just one more turn) phenomenon.

This is the game we old board gamer's have dreamed of for 30 years. I have been waiting for either Squad Leader of Advanced Squad Leader to be converted to a nice, playable pc game and it has finally happened. Watch the tutorials in order to understand the mechanics of the game, which are not simple. One of the most important things for you to do is learn about the turn sequence. That will help you make better decisions of fire and movement.

Peter Fisla has been working on this game since 2006-talk about wanting to get it right. He also listened to and participated in ideas with testers, of which I was thrilled to be one. This dedication by Peter shows in every way. Get the game, if your not happy, Peter will pay off your mortgage.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to DaBoost)
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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/15/2016 5:05:50 AM   
Richie61


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quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski
Hell yes it is worth it. As far as the low number of scenarios-those numbers are growing faster than I thought. If I counted correctly there have been 44 new scenarios created by players since release(thanks for the list Paullus). 36142CP makes a great point about the number of turns. Sure, maybe several of the scenarios have 5-9 turns, but you must learn how to fight tactically and make many decisions during each turn. Many scenarios I have played have turned into that (just one more turn) phenomenon.


THIS! Short scenarios are the type that makes you think and then try a self calculated move/ plan, that then ends late at night! You then lay in bed wondering what went wrong or basking in the dark over your last moves to win the scenario

_____________________________

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu




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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/15/2016 9:56:26 PM   
MikeMarchant_ssl

 

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I wanted to express my views about Tigers on the Hunt, but didnít want to rush into it. Iíve left it a good couple of weeks so that I could get a good sense of the game before making my mind up about it.

To give you a little bit of context, Iíll just tell you than Iím a fifty-five year old Englishmen who started wargaming as a child back in the early seventies, and was playing and loving the original Squad Leader shortly after it first came out in the late seventies. I also got involved with computers and computer games early, back in the late seventies, and have been playing computer games ever since.

Like a lot of people, I bought Tigers the day it was released, having been tracking it for some time on the Matrix website, and was eager to get on and try it out. Iíve so far played seventeen of the original scenarios (some several times) and a number of the scenarios provided by other players and have had to overcome the odd technical problem with the interface, particularly one which gave me very little view of the playing area, which was an enormous frustration.

Coming to the game, the first thing Iíd like to address is the price and professionalism of the product. I know there have been some people who have been disappointed with the game and felt that the price warrants a much better polished game.
I can sympathise with that view. If I had paid £40 for a game from EA or Microsoft or any large publisher, and had received this game I would probably want my money back. But that isnít the situation here. This is a game which has been produced by a single developer, working on his own, with no support and, over a long period of time (ten years, was it?) and he has not only managed to produce the game but also get published.

Itís not, as it stands at the moment, a game for the mass market, but for a smaller market of wargamers, particularly those who have a love of Squad Leader and Advanced Squad Leader. If you ask me whether I think itís worth £40 then I would have to say that depends who you are.
For me, I am happy to spend £40 to support a small developer developing a game that I very much like Ė cheap at twice the price Ė in the hope that the game will continue to be developed and will improve over time. If youíre an eager teenager with limited means and used to the kind of professionalism you get with Call of Duty, I would say not.

This isnít about how many hours Peter has put in, or what he deserves for his effort. Thatís not how the commercial world works. Itís about what people are willing to pay for those efforts, and different people value things differently.

If thereís a fault here, itís with Matrix and their advertising. Nowhere on the product page does it suggest that the game isnít what you might expect with that price tag, and so people might well be buying with entirely reasonable false expectations, and then being disappointed. Not their fault.

The interface has received a great deal of criticism and for good reason. Itís like stepping back twenty or more years. Itís hard to believe that the many failings of the interface werenít flagged up in alpha testing, let alone beta testing, and I can only imagine that they were, but that there wasnít time before final release to sort them out.

One has to hope that this is something Peter is working on and that it will improve over time. The problems arenít just with too much clicking, poor reporting of information, and little concern for the overall user experience, itís also that the game provides so little detail to the user. Itís very difficult to provide effective defensive fire when you have no clue which enemy unit moved and where it moved to. And clicking over and over again on an enemyís rout phase when they have a lot of broken units Ė and I have never once, in all the games Iíve played, managed to interdict an enemy unit in rout. Every attempt (and there must have been hundreds) have been met with some objection as to why I canít interdict the enemy unit. I no longer bother to try.

At the moment, the frustration level is pretty high with the interface, and at times, the frustration overtakes the fun of the game and so I have to stop playing for a while. There is a danger that when the initial excitement of the game wears off a little the frustration level will be too great and Iíll simply stop playing altogether, which would be a great pity.

The game itself, interface aside, is great. The game as it stands at the moment is an excellent modelling of SL/ASL and, frustrations aside, I have enjoyed it very much. The prospect of new features and functionality is exciting, and whatever features might be missing in the game (multi-player availability, multi-level buildings, the ability to target empty hexes with OBA, etc) we can always hope that these might be implemented in the future.

All in all an astonishing achievement for a one man band and I take my hat off to you, Peter, not only in appreciation of the extraordinary effort and skill that must have gone into producing this game, but also in thanks to you for providing me with such a great game for me to play.
Iíd also like to add my thanks to all those many other people who have contributed to the game with mods and scenarios and so on; it is already immensely impressive whatís been created, and I can only imagine that as time goes by the communityís contribution is going to grow richer and richer.


Best Wishes

Mike

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/16/2016 5:12:51 AM   
iPhoneAppz

 

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This is a great, thoughtful post. I agree with everything that you've said. Cheers!

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/16/2016 7:06:24 AM   
Rosseau

 

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I hate to repeat myself, as I am boring enough the first time But I will post again, that the game got an unusual amount of pre-release videos to clearly show what the buyer could expect from most of the game play. Of course, things like the "rout" repeat and a few other frustrations might not have been obvious watching the videos.

What can (and probably will) save this game are the legions of SL and ASL players, who are already actively supporting with mods, scenarios and player aids. It's really fun to see what's new on the TotH forum nearly every day.

Matrix Campaign Series Middle East offers more info to the player, a proven UI, more features, and a legion of JTCS fanatics. But I see very few user created scenarios (need to check The Blitz though). I like this game a lot, and feel it is more polished than TotH ATM.

The dev has been pretty clear that some new features are not going to happen. But as this is his labor of love, I believe we can look forward to his best efforts at addressing some of the major concerns. Personally, I would like to see a more aggressive AI, but haven't played enough to condemn it either. Unfortunately, it is only one guy and it's going to take some time. It would be great if Matrix/Slitherine could offer Peter some help (a part-time programmer consultant) in making these improvements happen.




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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/16/2016 8:51:55 AM   
Roger Neilson 3


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quote:

At the moment, the frustration level is pretty high with the interface, and at times, the frustration overtakes the fun of the game and so I have to stop playing for a while. There is a danger that when the initial excitement of the game wears off a little the frustration level will be too great and Iíll simply stop playing altogether, which would be a great pity.


Mike that was a very good post. I bought the game a few days after release and have sadly concluded that it can sit on my hard drive now until there are improvements in the UI. I have given up in frustration.

Roger

_____________________________

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/16/2016 1:39:20 PM   
kylania

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3
Mike that was a very good post. I bought the game a few days after release and have sadly concluded that it can sit on my hard drive now until there are improvements in the UI. I have given up in frustration.


Same here. Once I can play sans Ctrl I'm sure I'll enjoy it more.

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/16/2016 3:19:29 PM   
FroBodine


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This is an excellent post, Mike. Very elegant.

Sadly, I don't own the game, and will not buy it until the interface gets up to snuff. It's too bad that a game with this much potential has such a poor user interface.


< Message edited by jglazier -- 3/16/2016 3:21:28 PM >

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/16/2016 3:32:39 PM   
blackcloud6


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quote:

I bought the game a few days after release and have sadly concluded that it can sit on my hard drive now until there are improvements in the UI. I have given up in frustration.


I suggest you keep playing it. I agree that the UI can use improvement but it is certainly not unplayable; after a week or so of playing you'll get used to it. (That said, I do hope it improves just for the sake of efficiency) There is a great game here,; don't miss out on it.

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/16/2016 4:44:24 PM   
Richie61


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6

quote:

I bought the game a few days after release and have sadly concluded that it can sit on my hard drive now until there are improvements in the UI. I have given up in frustration.


I suggest you keep playing it. I agree that the UI can use improvement but it is certainly not unplayable; after a week or so of playing you'll get used to it. (That said, I do hope it improves just for the sake of efficiency) There is a great game here,; don't miss out on it.


This.

Yeah the UI is clunky at first, but it's easy to get use to after a bit of play. Still a great game at the end of the day


_____________________________

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu




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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/16/2016 10:50:44 PM   
Rosseau

 

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A month ago, Ian wrote a Steam post about the highly competitive gaming market and how modern games must have a UI up to what the customer expects, if the game is to be successful. Obviously, he was not talking about niche wargaming

TotH is really not too bad and any bugs will be fixed. It's cake compared to WitE or World in Flames.

I was initially impressed with OOB Pacific's excellent interface. But now I find myself skipping through scenarios out of boredom, as I pretty much know the exact results before they happen. As a non-ASL player, I don't mind the lack of information in TotH, as every fire phase is exciting. So yes, it's worth it to me. Like Mike said above, "it depends on who you are."

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RE: So, is it worth it? - 3/19/2016 7:17:39 PM   
DaBoost

 

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Thanks for all the replies. I never did enjoy CoH and only parts of Stalignrad, but I do like John Tiller's games and this kinda seems similar. I'll have to watch those streams I think and make up my mind. Cheers. The game doesn't seems to have different levels of height or am I wrong?

< Message edited by JM230 -- 3/19/2016 11:50:49 PM >

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