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DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (J) vs Revthought (A)

 
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DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (J) v... - 3/3/2016 10:30:38 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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I am planning to start a new PBEM game against Revthought. He is new to the game and I am looking for a friendly match, thus we are both in agreement on making this a relatively historical, slow tempo game. My main focus will be in building a logistics "happy empire" rather than invading the entire map, hence the title.

Still working on the HRs. but some key points are:

Fundamentals:
This is a slow paced, historical game. Only historically plausible invasions.

No Sir Robin, full fledged retreat.

Victory points are directional only.

Quiet China during the entire war. We still need to finalize the rules but the idea is that China will remain relatively static during the entire war. Slow tempo offensives, a Chinese redoubt and no Chinese appetite to steamroll once supply is available


Settings:
DaBabes-C
One day turns
Scen 28
Combat animations ON
Extended map and stacking limits
PDU OFF and Realistic RnD ON
Non historical first turn, December surprise, faulty USN torpedoes, allied damage control, FOW
Advanced Weather OFF
Fixed Reinforcements

House Rules:
* Player must pay PP to move restricted units across borders. exceptions:
- US-Canada and Manchuria-Korea borders can be ignored
- Thai troops can move to Burma and Malaya
- Restricted Chinese troops that historically operated in Burma/ India can cross borders without paying PP

* No partial parachute deployments (i.e. one unit, one target)

* No carrier hunting on the first 2 turns

* Only submarine designed FPs on Japanese subs

* Maximum squadron resize is 45 planes

* Purchase of restricted units at full price: unit must be at no least than 80% TOE and the selected HQ shall be the most expensive: no air HQ trick

* No transfers between off map ports... use transports to move between off map bases. Or use rail to move from East Coast to West Coast then board a ship.

* No full speed transit off map

Night bombing port/airfield:
- 50 planes/target for the entire war.

Aerial mining:
- 50 planes/target only at night for the entire war.

4E Bombing:
- No 4E low level bombing (naval or ground)

Industry bombing:
- No light industry bombing, neither side (Use fire bombing = manpower instead)
- No strategic bombing in or from China (use fire bombing = manpower instead)

Picket ships:
- Must be warships of at least 1000 tons

No fuel loaded in xAKs/ AKs, other than the small organic capacity of some large xAKs

Altitude of CAP/sweep:
20k in 41-42
25k in 43
30k in 44
35k in 45
open in 46

First turn:
No new TFs for Allies but existing may move
No air groups changing location, but can change CAP settings
No crazy deep "*TF" moves: no Mersing, no deep invasions, nothing historically dubious.


From now on Revthought not allowed

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/7/2016 5:11:34 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/3/2016 10:37:53 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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i would be interested to know if this rule makes sense or if you think it is too restrictive

Day bombing
150 planes/target in 41-42
200 planes/target in 43
300 planes in 44
no limit afterwards
no restrictions for CV strikes

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/3/2016 10:38:19 PM >

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 2
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/4/2016 4:51:07 PM   
Andav

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

i would be interested to know if this rule makes sense or if you think it is too restrictive

Day bombing
150 planes/target in 41-42
200 planes/target in 43
300 planes in 44
no limit afterwards
no restrictions for CV strikes


Personally, I think this is unnecessary and too restrictive.

Wa

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 3
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/4/2016 5:51:37 PM   
Lowpe

 

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Personally, all I think you nee do is:

Let us play a historical game

Let us play with a very, very slow, almost quiet China.

PP to cross borders except where reasonable.

Nothing gamey,if you have to think about it, it is gamey.

(in reply to Andav)
Post #: 4
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/4/2016 6:06:26 PM   
Yaab


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Jorge Stanbury, I would advocate strategic bombing of HI and manpower in China. HI represents Chinese arsenals, historically present in Chungking. Even if you wipe out all Chinese HI (which is unlikely), auto-supply and LI will be enough to feed the army.

What about no fuel in xAKs rule?

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 5
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/4/2016 6:09:14 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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I tend to agree, and after all in my current PBEM against Prester John we both had gone off the rules a few times, actually some rules I didn't remember existed and no big deal; which means we are really a good match in terms of playing style.

But the problem is; it is a long game, and we are not mind readers. I don't think anybody here is trying to cheat, not in this years long game.
But what I think is reasonable might not be reasonable for somebody else, "gamey" is a subjective term, open to multiple interpretations. The risk is that one of us might feel cheated and then the bitterness and then the game will go down the drain.
With some clear rules, we can at least have some guiding principles to look at when we are in doubt.

That said, I think it is right to drop the air bombing rule; too restrictive and helps Japan too much

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/5/2016 2:19:24 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 6
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/4/2016 6:13:21 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab


Jorge Stanbury, I would advocate strategic bombing of HI and manpower in China. HI represents Chinese arsenals, historically present in Chungking. Even if you wipe out all Chinese HI (which is unlikely), auto-supply and LI will be enough to feed the army.

What about no fuel in xAKs rule?


Let me ask him
as this might be more a problem for the Allies

and fire bombing is OK

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/4/2016 6:14:22 PM >

(in reply to Yaab)
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RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/4/2016 6:36:47 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:

Victory points are directional only.


Sorry for being thick, but what does this mean?

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 8
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/4/2016 6:47:33 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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sorry for my bad english:

it plainly means, that victory points give bragging rights, that is it all. There won't be a push for achieving auto victory

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/5/2016 2:20:14 AM >

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 9
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/5/2016 2:53:36 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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These are my initial ideas for convoys:



The situation is very clear: there is excess resources stored in Hokkaido, Sakhalin, Manchukuo, Korea and China that needs to be moved ASAP to Japan,

Manchukuo and China are easy, because Shanghai and Pt Arthur are big ports. It is a bit more challenging for Hokkaido and Sakhalin, as their ports are much smaller. Initially I will need to use multiple ports. But once Hakkodate and particularly Ominato are maximized, I will start cutting routes and use bigger ships.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/5/2016 2:59:42 AM >

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RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/5/2016 3:05:15 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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In terms of cargo ships; I start the war with 997 ships, and most of them will not be needed, therefore, other than those really close to completion, I will cancel cargo ship production.




Yusen A/ S
Because of Japan's poor amphibious capabilities, I will most likely convert them all to AK-t.

St-A
A very good, fuel efficient ship... but not really needed

Lima
6 will become AKE, the rest will likely be used to move supply to big ports. Not really great in DBB-C because it is slow and very few ports can unload it in one day

Yusen N / Kyushu
Will be used for long range hauls. Singapore-Fukuoka comes to mind

Aden
Workhorse of the fleet, will mostly move resource from Hokkaido. Some will be converted to xAK-t

Huisimi
This is the ideal xAK-t. as it carry over 1,000 troops and cruiser speed is 12knots. 4 will be converted to AR once available

St-B
nice freighter, but not needed

Akasi
4 will convert to ADs. The rest will likely be used on Shanghai-Nagasaki. or supplies

Toho / Ehime
Also not a lot to do with them, will likely move supplies

Ansyu-C
All will become PB... a gas guzzling, huge PB... but at least can make 12 knots. Moreover, it has enough endurance to do a round trip from Singapore to HI.

St-C
All will become TKs, I don't know yet how many more to build, if at all

Miyati / Kasu-D / Daigen
These will take care of small ports, as needed, most will likely end in the outlying, less developed regions of the empire.

St-F
not needed

Kujira/ Hachi
Kujira is surprisingly fuel efficient, but 184 cargo capacity is really nothing... so they will all become xAMc and/ or PB later on (1943)

Tosu
All to ACM or PB

Kiso E
In the standard game most people makes them ACMs, but this option is not allowed in DaBabes
So all will become PB.. or maybe a few AGs? this is another gas guzzler. 4.5 fuel per hex plus this one is slow.
I think I will use them to mob submarines: I will spread them across major ports, and keep them disbanded.. as soon as a submarine is spotted, I will send them to harass

Kudai
Is this a surfboard?? I don't know what to do with this. I think I will send them all to the South Pacific and use them for risky operations

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/5/2016 3:34:19 AM >

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 11
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/5/2016 3:27:56 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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And my not so original ideas for auxiliaries, PBs, ACMs and AMcs:



As mentioned before, only Tosu can become ACM in DaBabes, I think I will need at least ~70 if not more.
More PBs will be converted if needed

AMcs: I will be building a lot, but just because there are not a lot better alternatives for xAKLs Hachi and Kujira

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/5/2016 3:31:31 AM >

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RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/5/2016 7:57:05 AM   
GetAssista

 

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Another Japanese AAR, yay!

Does DaBabes drop TK convertibility of St-A/B? You listed them as not really needed, and them are potential large fast tankers that are always in demand.
Are there any xAKs with fuel capacity in DB? They are useful for picking up that trickle of oil from Sakhalin and Hokkaido and free up real tankers for DEI and fuel transport

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
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RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/5/2016 10:59:11 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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That is a very good/ valid point. as far as I know they can still convert, but I haven't yet analyzed how many tanker I have vs. how many I need.
What I noticed early on was that there is a significantly greater need of smaller tankers because most oil bases (Palembang, Tarakan, Miri, etc) are small and cannot be built above something like level 4
This is why St-C is the most useful, short haul, tanker.
For the long trip, I might have enough already considering the queued tankers... I will check soon

With regards to xAKs with organic (small) fuel capacity. Yes they remain, but they are usually big/ fast so I prefer to keep them in longer haul routes. Besides, with the small ports available, they would take another full loading day which is not desirable in Sakhalin. Once the excess of oil is taken care of, one small TK is all that is need

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/5/2016 11:00:10 AM >

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 14
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/5/2016 1:01:02 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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These are the tankers/ oilers:



Oilers
Type-N TL AO / Type-1 TL AO
These 7, fast oilers will likely follow the KB. At least during the offensive phase. Then likely haul fuel from Balikpapan to Truk
The idea to keep them always close to KB

Ashizuri / Sunosaki
These 4 late war additions look optimized for front line service, as they are relatively fast and well armed (for an AO).

Shiretoko
These are very helpful oilers. I like to keep them close to the major advance, as a sort off mobile gas station for the many destroyer/ cruiser TFs. This is very important for Japan considering the low endurance of most of its destroyers.

Juyusen YO
I would like more of these yard oilers. I plan to put a couple on each major/ busy port to reduce congestion.

Tankers
Tonan Whaler
This is the best tanker, I hope I could build more. In addition to its huge liquid capacity, it can even carry resources. These will certainly get lots of escorts.

Type N TL
Fastest tanker, can even be used as a proxy oiler for the KB (assuming I have a base or dot hex nearby). They can be converted to AOs, but I don't think it makes sense, I prefer the bigger fuel capacity

Type 1 TL
Another fast tanker, will likely work the Singapore to Fukuoka route

Type 2 TL
Great fuel afficiency, I will build them all.

Manzyu / Type 1 TM
A bit slow, might work the secondary routes

St-AT TK
Poor fuel efficiency, slow... I don't know if I should build them. Good news is that they are coming much later on, I don't need to decide yet.

St-BT TK
Poor fuel efficiency, slow... but they might load at Palembang in one turn... I would need to investigate more about it, later

St-C
Absolutely critical for Japan, as they are perfectly sized for Palembang, Tarakan, Balikpapan, Miri, etc.

Type-1 TS
This will take care of all small ports and until St-C is available, also Palembang.

St-ETd TK
Too slow, too small, not fuel efficient. Not needed


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/5/2016 1:40:31 PM >

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RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/5/2016 3:34:21 PM   
Bif1961


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Looking forward to your AAR as the Japanese player. As to the limit of number of planes on any given attack, doesn't that come down to the ability to coordinate? I wouldn't limit it and let weather and fate decide.

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RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/5/2016 6:22:43 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

These are the tankers/ oilers:



Oilers
Type-N TL AO / Type-1 TL AO
These 7, fast oilers will likely follow the KB. At least during the offensive phase. Then likely haul fuel from Balikpapan to Truk
The idea to keep them always close to KB

Ashizuri / Sunosaki
These 4 late war additions look optimized for front line service, as they are relatively fast and well armed (for an AO).

Shiretoko
These are very helpful oilers. I like to keep them close to the major advance, as a sort off mobile gas station for the many destroyer/ cruiser TFs. This is very important for Japan considering the low endurance of most of its destroyers.

Juyusen YO
I would like more of these yard oilers. I plan to put a couple on each major/ busy port to reduce congestion.

Tankers
Tonan Whaler
This is the best tanker, I hope I could build more. In addition to its huge liquid capacity, it can even carry resources. These will certainly get lots of escorts.

Type N TL
Fastest tanker, can even be used as a proxy oiler for the KB (assuming I have a base or dot hex nearby). They can be converted to AOs, but I don't think it makes sense, I prefer the bigger fuel capacity

Type 1 TL
Another fast tanker, will likely work the Singapore to Fukuoka route

Type 2 TL
Great fuel afficiency, I will build them all.

Manzyu / Type 1 TM
A bit slow, might work the secondary routes

St-AT TK
Poor fuel efficiency, slow... I don't know if I should build them. Good news is that they are coming much later on, I don't need to decide yet.

St-BT TK
Poor fuel efficiency, slow... but they might load at Palembang in one turn... I would need to investigate more about it, later

St-C
Absolutely critical for Japan, as they are perfectly sized for Palembang, Tarakan, Balikpapan, Miri, etc.

Type-1 TS
This will take care of all small ports and until St-C is available, also Palembang.

St-ETd TK
Too slow, too small, not fuel efficient. Not needed


I'm really careful with these ships in terms of which ones I use. Some of them are real fuel pigs, so I either beach them or use them very specifically.
Shiretoko/Sunasaki for example ... not very efficient. I'm careful with how many hexes they ever move.

Last time I checked the TM's were more efficient than any of the ST types and are sized to work as feeders. I use the TL types for all of my longer haul fuel. Tonans are used on the longest routes with absolute best protection as they are irreplaceable.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 3/5/2016 6:28:30 PM >


_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
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RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/5/2016 8:11:32 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Shiretoko should mostly remain at port. But in my AI games, I always use them early war. It really helps to have fuel available nearby. Once conquest phase is finished, they might remain at port.
The other 2 classes look like a hybrid between a destroyer and a tanker. I bet it was not a great idea.

TMs are the 3rd best in fuel efficiency, after Tonan and Type-2 TL. I made a mistake with regards to Palembang; I thought TMs could not fully load in one day there because of port level 4; they actually can due to refinery/ oil loading bonus. Thus, they will be the feeder from Palembang to Singapore. No need to use TS or St-C there. That said Miri, Tarakan and all other smaller bases will need them. This is good news because I will not need to build as many St-C as I was envisioning or use too many Type-1 TS

I will update this once I have conquered the SRA. Certainly St-A and St-B look less and less desirable, unless, of course, losses are severe.

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/5/2016 8:13:18 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
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RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/5/2016 10:02:47 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Shiretoko should mostly remain at port. But in my AI games, I always use them early war. It really helps to have fuel available nearby. Once conquest phase is finished, they might remain at port.
The other 2 classes look like a hybrid between a destroyer and a tanker. I bet it was not a great idea.

TMs are the 3rd best in fuel efficiency, after Tonan and Type-2 TL. I made a mistake with regards to Palembang; I thought TMs could not fully load in one day there because of port level 4; they actually can due to refinery/ oil loading bonus. Thus, they will be the feeder from Palembang to Singapore. No need to use TS or St-C there. That said Miri, Tarakan and all other smaller bases will need them. This is good news because I will not need to build as many St-C as I was envisioning or use too many Type-1 TS

I will update this once I have conquered the SRA. Certainly St-A and St-B look less and less desirable, unless, of course, losses are severe.

Much closer to what I do as well, if that means anything.

_____________________________

Pax

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RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/5/2016 10:47:15 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Yes it does

thanks a lot

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RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/7/2016 11:33:05 PM   
Revthought


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Hey guys, just dropping by to say hello! I'm the relative beginner here, and I am super thankful Jorge is willing to play a game with this in mind! This will actually be the second PBEM game I will be playing in (I'm also playing a stock scn 1 game versus 1275psi) and am planning on starting a third against a friend--yeah I need to get a hobby.

I'm running an AAR of this game myself on another website, but I might move it over here as the community of WITPAE players there is much smaller and I will need all the advice I can get. We will see after things get started and I've got some action to report.

Right now though, I'm just hoping that Jorge doesn't whip me too bad on turn one. If I were him I definitely would pull back the KB and leave the poor unprepared Allies alone until they're ready.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 21
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/8/2016 12:07:58 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought

Hey guys, just dropping by to say hello! I'm the relative beginner here, and I am super thankful Jorge is willing to play a game with this in mind! This will actually be the second PBEM game I will be playing in (I'm also playing a stock scn 1 game versus 1275psi) and am planning on starting a third against a friend--yeah I need to get a hobby.

I'm running an AAR of this game myself on another website, but I might move it over here as the community of WITPAE players there is much smaller and I will need all the advice I can get. We will see after things get started and I've got some action to report.

Right now though, I'm just hoping that Jorge doesn't whip me too bad on turn one. If I were him I definitely would pull back the KB and leave the poor unprepared Allies alone until they're ready.


You are welcome!! and by the way, because we are playing scenario 1... you will surely win the war, if not the game

(in reply to Revthought)
Post #: 22
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/8/2016 3:25:52 AM   
Revthought


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury


quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought

Hey guys, just dropping by to say hello! I'm the relative beginner here, and I am super thankful Jorge is willing to play a game with this in mind! This will actually be the second PBEM game I will be playing in (I'm also playing a stock scn 1 game versus 1275psi) and am planning on starting a third against a friend--yeah I need to get a hobby.

I'm running an AAR of this game myself on another website, but I might move it over here as the community of WITPAE players there is much smaller and I will need all the advice I can get. We will see after things get started and I've got some action to report.

Right now though, I'm just hoping that Jorge doesn't whip me too bad on turn one. If I were him I definitely would pull back the KB and leave the poor unprepared Allies alone until they're ready.


You are welcome!! and by the way, because we are playing scenario 1... you will surely win the war, if not the game


Well, to be fair, games can abstract victory conditions for the Japanese player, but we all know in hindsight that it was a forgone conclusion.

Plus, you have no idea how terrible I can be! :D

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 23
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/9/2016 4:33:37 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Turn sent..

As this is an historical game, I decided for an historical turn... or sort of, I made some slight changes, like avoiding the suicidal strafing runs, or canceling the very useless Midway destroyer bombardment.
Also adjusted Ryujo bombing to Cagayan instead of Davao.
I also sent the LBAs to bomb Manila and Singapore ports; this is addition of Clark Field and Khota/ Georgetown/ Alor

And other cosmetic/ convenient changes, but respecting the thought process defined by Yamamoto:

- 6 carriers attacked PH
- No use of magic move for amphibious strikes; so no amphibious assaults other than the 2 historical targets: Bataan island and Khota B
- Main objective is Malaya and Philippine islands, with some opportunistic grabs in the SRA or Pacific, but no fully fledged/ important offensives until these are completed

Finally. I will try to avoid using the Japanese early amphibious bonus. Since this is something not possible to disable, I am thinking about specific rules to reduce it.
- The first one is to avoid the use of big xAPs (troop load >= 3,000 troops) for amphibious assaults. Ideally avoid it completely, use them for transport to or from HI. At the very least, use it only for unloading over a friendly port, never an enemy beach.
- Use of regiment sized LCUs for assaulting the beaches; this includes, SNLFs, naval guards or IJA mixed brigades or equivalents. Certainly no division sized invasions during the amphibious bonus.
- All transport to and from HI needs to be done using commercial load: "transport TF".





< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/9/2016 3:51:30 PM >

(in reply to Revthought)
Post #: 24
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/9/2016 2:59:48 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Transports:

As already mentioned, I want to avoid the use of big xAPs on amphibious assaults during the early bonus (actually it won't be wise to use them afterwards too)

The threshold is 2,300 troops: Buenos Aires class. This is the biggest ship I will use for direct beach assaults, and then I will try to restrict this to places with token opposition.
For real invasions, I will prefer to use AK-t, AMCs, and the occasional xAK-t




In terms of cargo conversions, I will play safe and build as many as I can initially. This because they can easily turn back to their cargo role after 5 days to a week.
The 2 preferred classes for conversion are Aden, because of its abundance. and Husimi for its 12 knot speed.
Kyushu would also make a good transport, being even faster and still capable to dock in a level 1 port. But at the end I decided this are too good to risk on amphibious assaults, and anyway their speed would be wasted as in most cases they will be escorted by Ansyu-C PBs



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/9/2016 3:08:42 PM >

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 25
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/9/2016 3:19:31 PM   
Lowpe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Turn sent..

As this is an historical game, I decided for an historical turn... or sort of, I made some slight changes, like avoiding the suicidal strafing runs, or canceling the very useless Midway destroyer bombardment.




The strafing costs quite a few Zeroes...it is too late but you could have had them bomb the runways from 5K+.

Try not to lose any of your Yusen class ships to Dutch subs off Sumatra (can be hard to do)...and double check some of your invasions ship groups. Some are carrying fuel into an amphibious landing.

One last thing to think about is bringing back your AMC raiders. They pretty much stink as raiders, but are good for amphibious invasions especially given your restrictions.

Good luck, and I am looking forward to keeping pace with this AAR...

You have three training cruisers. CLs that are 18knots swift. Eventually they upgrade to super escorts, but they have highly experienced crew and good commanders I recall. After the initial invasions are over, they make for great escorts paired with Tonan Whalers. They can eat a torpedo or two and live, saving the Whalers.

Allocate some part of your PP to upgrade the Captains on your tankers and double check your warships.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/9/2016 3:23:22 PM >

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 26
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/9/2016 3:43:21 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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From: Lima and Toronto
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I will talk more about my settings after tonight, but I always make the Zeros bomb runways; except one squadron doing escort. Since this is DBB-C, and PH has good AA (even during surprise attack), I set them up a lot higher... which means enemy losses will be lower, but better survival chances for my core pilots. I am becoming less and less convinced on the value (game wise) of PH strike, but this can't be a serious historical game if the KB skips its Pearl Harbor appointment

I made changes to the invasions: first I took out ships of dubious amphibious value, like those little (slow) xAMc, the auxiliars that are better used somewhere else, or as you mentioned, the tankers moving to Legaspi; I prefer to keep them at Babeldaob where fuel will become an issue sooner than later.

I also tried, as possible, to pair the esoort speed with the TF... no need to use fast escorts when the maximum TF speed is 8knts. It is a pitty so many fast ships are mismatched with slow/ small xAKLs.

And I totally agree on the raiders, against the AI I have very poor results. I think with better captains they might perform better. In any case, I don't plan to use AMC for raiding.

In my AI games, I used the three 18-knot cruisers as amphibious flagship... this is usually a risky business, so I hope they will survive,

What else? good idea about the tanker captains. Other than a few construction battalions, I spent all my initial PP points in changing leaders, but I focused on air and surface combatants.




< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/9/2016 3:49:03 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 27
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/9/2016 6:40:12 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Joined: 9/6/2009
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Looking forward to this AAR from the IJN side Jorge. I've learned a lot from your Allied PBEM AAR, hope to do the same here as well.

Curious about your comment on no AMC raiders - L_S_T used them sparingly in our game as raiders, and it through my convoys into disarray early on. Just not enough escorts to protect every Allied convoy - especially in SOPAC and Indian Ocean areas. While raiders may not sink many ships, just the threat of spotting a raider can really de-rail a convoy routing schedule, and commit warships to convoy duty when they can be used effectively elsewhere!


(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 28
RE: DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (... - 3/9/2016 7:32:41 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 3143
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Lima and Toronto
Status: offline
Thanks!!
I have also learnt quiet a lot from yours.

I certainly won't like to lose the 2 AMCs at the South Pacific, they are really good, but I know there are other, less capable AMCs that can be thrown.

Moreover, I am not against raiding; I am actually planning to test an idea of using a combo of submarine float planes + AOs + 2nd rate destroyers or torpedo cruisers; they would certainly do more damage than a lone raider. And being faster, means they would have more chances to survive or flee.

EDIT:
The two AMCs on the south Pacific are Aikoku Marus.. these ships are way too good for raiding; I think I will keep them in reserve for as long as possible; at 21/ 18 knots of speed, 1,700 troop capacity each, they can work perfectly on fast/ surprise invasions
Bankok marus on the other hands, will certainly be used as raiders once the offensive phase is finished




Akagi Maru, Nosiro Maru and Kinryu Maru are the most fuel efficient, and as such, they will be the best candidates for escorting long ranged convoys

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/9/2016 8:06:56 PM >

(in reply to IdahoNYer)
Post #: 29
Dec7, Momotaro not impressed - 3/10/2016 3:20:11 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 3143
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Lima and Toronto
Status: offline
Momotaro is not impressed with Pearl Harbor bombing results, neither is the Emperor.



Poor luck and bad coordination (only 90 Kates attacked) meant that most likely all Allied BBs will survive, although some heavily damaged.

KB pilot losses -- and it is pilots, not airframes, what matters:
Kaga: 2 Val KIA, 1 Kate KIA
Soryu: 1 Kate KIA
Hiryu: 3 Kate KIA
Shokaku: 2 Zero KIA, 1 MIA, 1 Val KIA
Zuikaku: 1 Val KIA
Akagi: 1 Val KIA, 6 Kate KIA
Total: 3 Zero, 4 Val, 11 Kate pilots lost
I had them strike from relatively high altitude (14K) which is why so few Zeros and Vals went down. Kates in the other hand, are forced to go low for dropping torpedoes, and thereby got the worst from AA

Allies
Basically all battleships got torpedo hits; but because damage was spread out and there were no magazine explosions, I think most have a good chance of surviving. And they will get out of the repair yard by by time they are needed (1943)

BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2

Deck armor hits; minor scratches at most:
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2

Destroyers:
DD Schley, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Aylwin, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 101 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 72
B5N2 Kate x 90
D3A1 Val x 135

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 4
P-40B Warhawk x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 19 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 5 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 10 damaged
D3A1 Val: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-36A Mohawk: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 4 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 3 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 1 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 1 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AS Pelias, Bomb hits 1
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Aylwin, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
AV Curtiss, Bomb hits 1
DD Schley, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Repair Shipyard hits 2
Airbase hits 20
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 62
Port hits 19
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 14000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
21 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
18 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 14000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
19 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
16 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
14 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 14000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
4 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 14000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 plane(s) with no ordnance
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 14000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 plane(s) with no ordnance
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
13 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
12 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
18th PG/6th PS with P-40B Warhawk (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 18000.
Raid is overhead
15th PG/45th PS with P-36A Mohawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
15th PG/46th PS with P-36A Mohawk (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 17000.
Raid is overhead
15th PG/47th PS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 105 minutes
18th PG/78th PS with P-40B Warhawk (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Raid is overhead


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 99 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 2
P-40B Warhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-36A Mohawk: 2 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 14000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
8 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 14000 feet

CAP engaged:
18th PG/6th PS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
18th PG/19th PS with P-40B Warhawk (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 16000.
Raid is overhead
18th PG/44th PS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
15th PG/45th PS with P-36A Mohawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
15th PG/46th PS with P-36A Mohawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
15th PG/47th PS with P-40B Warhawk (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 19000.
Raid is overhead
18th PG/73rd PS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
18th PG/78th PS with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/10/2016 3:31:15 AM >

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