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4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/23/2016 3:15:09 PM   
oaltinyay


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Is there a way to stop the allied 4E bombers ? Those gangster hit whereever they please and my AFs turn to rubble. It's mid43 in RA and I have the N1K1J1 in quantity but that's not enough to deter them it seems. I also have Ki45A and C model to act as Me110'ish destroyers but they are also shot down in droves.

Any ideas ?

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/23/2016 3:55:09 PM   
Yaab


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You need five heavy flak guns per one 4E to disrupt their targeting. So, if 100 4Es attack, you need to bring 500 heavy guns to the fray. You will not shoot any of them down, but they will not score hits on your bases either. Good luck manufacturing the tubes!

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/23/2016 4:05:36 PM   
Lowpe

 

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You don't give nearly enough information.

Georges should be able to really knock down allied bombers, so I assume your settings are off. Or pilot skill. Or something.

Give us some pictures.

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/23/2016 4:11:51 PM   
Encircled


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If he's flying unescorted 4Es against your big airbases, then cannon armed fighters with decent pilots should be able to make his losses high enough to at least reduce the number of raids.

I'm not sure you will be able to actually stop the raids, but you can make it very tough for them.

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/23/2016 4:19:33 PM   
Yaab


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Try Oscars. Later models have 12.7mm MG in CL position and will damage the bombers. Oscars don't get hit much by return fire from bombers.

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/23/2016 4:20:44 PM   
Lowpe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Try Oscars. Later models have 12.7mm MG in CL position and will damage the bombers. Oscars don't get hit much by return fire from bombers.


Really? Oscars are a better anti-bomber choice than George.

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/23/2016 4:23:15 PM   
Yaab


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They are to damage and disrupt the bombers, not to shoot them down. Oscars plus flak, and 4Es cannot hit a barn. Poor man's defence. Also, Oscars have durability < 30, and service rating 1. They can be repaired overnight, and you can field a constant number of Oscars every day.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 2/23/2016 4:24:39 PM >

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/23/2016 4:43:00 PM   
GetAssista

 

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Attrition is JFB's best friend against 4E. Can't stop a big raid from doing damage to your base, but can make repeating them costly.
AA + armored fighters with cannons + counterbombing/bombarding, and eventually replacement rates (and them are low in 42-43) won't be enough

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/23/2016 4:46:28 PM   
oaltinyay


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I will give some numbers once Derek's gangsters return to fertilize the fields. It will be painful I know.

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Post #: 9
RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/23/2016 5:58:10 PM   
Lokasenna


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My Oscars drop like flies against 4E defensive fire.

Early on, Nicks are your best for IJAAF and the A6M is your best (also only) for IJNAF. Later, Nicks are still good but the Ki-100 Tony is better and the Ki-44-IIc is a decent stopgap (better than Oscar...). Even later, you can use Franks OK.

For IJNAF, once you have the Jack it's your best, but the George is also pretty good.

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Post #: 10
RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/23/2016 11:32:35 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

you need to bring 500 heavy guns to the fray.


Where in the he!! is Japan going to get that many "tubes" into one hex. I haven't done a count, but I don't think she has that many in play, especially "heavies". At least not through '42 and most of '43, and some of what she gets won't move (permanently restricted), or shouldn't move, as they're needed where they are. BTW I count a "heavy" as 88 mike mike and above, and you can not "manufacture" them either in this game. Its WYSIWYG.

That being said there are ways to deal with his 'heavies'. You won't massacre them but you can make it so the juice is not worth the squeeze. A/C mentioned above, and some AAA. Even 75mm will shoot down an occasional 4E, or force him to fly higher which should reduce his accuracy. All of it is more deterrence than anything else. Just need to try and get his losses (including op losses) high enough to keep him at bay. I imagine at some point this will not be possible.

I would say if your A/C are getting 'shot down in droves' there's something else afoot and we'll need more info in order to help.

Ciao

P.S. Early Zeros' and the Oscar are not good choices for 4E deterrence. Their durability is too low.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 2/23/2016 11:36:39 PM >


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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 2:01:09 AM   
PaxMondo


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Start with 'wringing your hands'. It does almost as much good as everything else.

As stated above: attrition. Stopping 4E's is VERY difficult, but you can attrit them over a series of missions and take them out of action.

This is why it is imperative that you do NOT want to let the allies build up their forces ... keep them engaged. 100 x 4E is a very difficult and expensive raid to combat. You want to fight 25 4E's ...

Good Luck!

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 2:05:37 AM   
Big B

 

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Ask the Luftwaffe...
Unless you have Mig-15's and they don't get F-86 Sabres - the answer is NO

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 2:08:32 AM   
Lowpe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Start with 'wringing your hands'. It does almost as much good as everything else.

As stated above: attrition. Stopping 4E's is VERY difficult, but you can attrit them over a series of missions and take them out of action.

This is why it is imperative that you do NOT want to let the allies build up their forces ... keep them engaged. 100 x 4E is a very difficult and expensive raid to combat. You want to fight 25 4E's ...

Good Luck!


But you usually see them in mass, that is until your runways are wrecked and you can't mount a CAP anymore.



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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 2:12:00 AM   
Lowpe

 

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Here was a 100 4E Beastie raid in a few waves....I think the Allies lost 25%, and did 4% runway damage.

It can be done, and this is after a P38 Sweep...




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 15
RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 4:12:39 AM   
crsutton


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If I were you I would just surrender. Yep, that's the ticket, surrender...

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Post #: 16
RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 4:37:42 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 2255
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From: LI, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

If I were you I would just surrender. Yep, that's the ticket, surrender...


NO, we must die for the Emperor. Banzai!!!!

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 17
RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 7:54:41 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 2259
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poznan, Poland
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

you need to bring 500 heavy guns to the fray.


Where in the he!! is Japan going to get that many "tubes" into one hex. I haven't done a count, but I don't think she has that many in play, especially "heavies". At least not through '42 and most of '43, and some of what she gets won't move (permanently restricted), or shouldn't move, as they're needed where they are. BTW I count a "heavy" as 88 mike mike and above, and you can not "manufacture" them either in this game. Its WYSIWYG.

That being said there are ways to deal with his 'heavies'. You won't massacre them but you can make it so the juice is not worth the squeeze. A/C mentioned above, and some AAA. Even 75mm will shoot down an occasional 4E, or force him to fly higher which should reduce his accuracy. All of it is more deterrence than anything else. Just need to try and get his losses (including op losses) high enough to keep him at bay. I imagine at some point this will not be possible.

I would say if your A/C are getting 'shot down in droves' there's something else afoot and we'll need more info in order to help.

Ciao

P.S. Early Zeros' and the Oscar are not good choices for 4E deterrence. Their durability is too low.


That's the problem - you don't have that many flak guns at your disposal. Just as Pax Mondo said - 4 x 25 bomber raids are manageable, because you would need just 100 heavy flak guns each time to disrupt bombers' targeting. Once Allies start mounting 50, 75 or 100 bomber raids you will run out of flak guns.

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Post #: 18
RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 2:12:32 PM   
oaltinyay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Ask the Luftwaffe...
Unless you have Mig-15's and they don't get F-86 Sabres - the answer is NO



I did that, N1K1Js for FW190 look alike and Ki45c for the me109 destoyers however, it just doesnt work at all.

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Post #: 19
RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 2:15:55 PM   
oaltinyay


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From: La Sublime Porte
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

If I were you I would just surrender. Yep, that's the ticket, surrender...


Derek wouldnt like that ... I will play to the last drop of pixel blood.

On the other hand, if I cant find a solution, he is in Java. ( and this is when I am holding Burma to Eastern Australia , Kwajalein to Fiji islands. He just loaded 300 ships and came to invade the back door. I had fortified most pacific islands with infantry units and heavy guns drawn from Korea.

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"Battles are fought by cowards afraid to run" - Gene Wolfe

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Post #: 20
RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 2:29:04 PM   
Mundy


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Hah.... Coal Harbor.

Good luck keeping that fed.

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 6:40:33 PM   
Lokasenna


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Coal is edible, right? It's carbon, after all...

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Post #: 22
RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 2/24/2016 10:45:14 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Coal is edible, right? It's carbon, after all...



Lots of salmon off that coast ... Salmon Carbonero anyone?

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RE: 4E Bomber countermeasures - 3/14/2016 8:08:52 PM   
Alpha77

 

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OP losses are your friend (esp. re. 4Es)

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