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Night fighters - 12/26/2015 1:00:50 AM   
John B.


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I have a squadron of night fighter Beaufighter VIfs that I have tasked to fly a sweep over an IJA base for more than 35 turns. They are all experience over 50, good air leader with high aggression rating, and they have never flown a night time sweep. They are not restricted and I've changed bases and leaders all to no avail. Is there anything I'm missing. My night bombers go in and do ok but keep running into nighttime CAP. I have tried to set the Beaufighters in a nighttime escort role as well but they still don't fly. Any tips?
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RE: Night fighters - 12/26/2015 6:19:25 AM   
BBfanboy


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Haven't had experience with this one but I'd say that it is not possible to dogfight in the dark, so sweeps are not allowed at night? Similarly, trying to hold formation with bombers at night might be deemed too risky so escort of bombers is not allowed?

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RE: Night fighters - 12/26/2015 11:15:23 AM   
John B.


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@BBFanboy, I would agree with you except that Sweep and Escort are options that are given on the night action screen. And these planes are radar equipped so some sort of action would seem likely.

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RE: Night fighters - 12/26/2015 3:25:21 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

I have a squadron of night fighter Beaufighter VIfs that I have tasked to fly a sweep over an IJA base for more than 35 turns. They are all experience over 50, good air leader with high aggression rating, and they have never flown a night time sweep. They are not restricted and I've changed bases and leaders all to no avail. Is there anything I'm missing. My night bombers go in and do ok but keep running into nighttime CAP. I have tried to set the Beaufighters in a nighttime escort role as well but they still don't fly. Any tips?

Did they fly from the same AF or where were they based, what AF size, etc?

Klink, Oberst

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RE: Night fighters - 12/26/2015 6:15:11 PM   
John B.


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I was trying them all out of Chittagong airbase level 9. The range was well within their normal range. The bombers would fly (so it's not likely to be a weather issue) but no sweeps or escorts. I've also tried sweeps out of other airfields Level 5 and Level 3. Still nothing.

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RE: Night fighters - 12/26/2015 7:01:15 PM   
kaleun

 

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Does anyone actually know what night fighters do in the game?
There might be a bit of code creep here, from BTR, and maybe night fighters are meant to sweep a given target, and not escort the bombers (Not that I know, I've never used them to date)

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RE: Night fighters - 12/26/2015 7:47:29 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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I guess only one way to find out... a 'sandbox' scenario...

Klink, Oberst

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RE: Night fighters - 12/26/2015 8:54:57 PM   
John B.


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Kaleun,

The main mission I've been trying with the night fighters is to sweep and that has not work at all (as in no sweeps).


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RE: Night fighters - 12/26/2015 9:31:13 PM   
PaxMondo


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The manual lists the mission profiles possible for each type. Sweep is not listed.

Long time back devs stated that NF's have reduced malus in night CAP ... do not recall, nor seen anything else in game.

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RE: Night fighters - 12/26/2015 11:20:55 PM   
John B.


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P.M. you see below the source of my confusion as the button for sweeps is still there even when flying a night operation (and can be pushed). I guess night fighters really are only good for CAP missions.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Night fighters - 12/27/2015 7:06:00 AM   
LoBaron


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Neither sweep nor escort are night mission profiles. The percentage switches on those missions though allow you to set CAP - which works at night.


It may be a bit confusing to new players, I assume the old GUI to be the limiting factor how those missions can be displayed.

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RE: Night fighters - 12/27/2015 2:03:02 PM   
crsutton


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I have found that really their only real use is nighttime CAP. Early models are really no more effective than most other fighters on CAP. Occasionally they will kill a bomber but more important they do reduce the impact of any night bombing attack. But any fighter will do that as well. Late war they seemed to be more effective. I suppose that is due to the better radar, but there seemed to be a few more kills with the Black Widow vs the A20 or the Beaufighter. A smart opponent will just keep moving his night attacks from base to base to avoid night fighters.

Fun but not a big deal. We found that the most sensible thing to do was to just limit night attacks. We allow only one unit per theater per turn to make a night attack. Keeps it in perspective but allows a little flavor.

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RE: Night fighters - 12/27/2015 3:58:46 PM   
John B.


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crsutton,

That's an interesting idea. The night attacks don't seem all that effective but sometimes I've killed planes on the ground and I did put a torpedo in a IJN CV once. Keeps each side on their toes.

But, here is a separate problem that has come up. It seems that my door gunners have found the range and my night bombing B24s and B-25s have really been shooting down the night CAP. Scott has some carrier air groups over Burma and in the past two turns my night bombing mediums and heavies have shot down 26 (yes, 26) zeros. That does not make sense at all as his zeros don't hit anything except, oddly, the night fighting beaufighters who are attacking the airfields. Has any one else notices increased accuracy of bombers vs. fighters at night?

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RE: Night fighters - 12/27/2015 4:21:42 PM   
DanSez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

But, here is a separate problem that has come up. It seems that my door gunners have found the range and my night bombing B24s and B-25s have really been shooting down the night CAP. Scott has some carrier air groups over Burma and in the past two turns my night bombing mediums and heavies have shot down 26 (yes, 26) zeros. That does not make sense at all as his zeros don't hit anything except, oddly, the night fighting beaufighters who are attacking the airfields. Has any one else notices increased accuracy of bombers vs. fighters at night?


Of course it doesn't make sense.
One of the little flaws of Reality vs Game. The usual remedy is to set some limits on night bombing if you and your opponent can come to reason.

How many air groups were in that bombing run? Co-ordinated night bombing wasn't easy to do given the distances and lack of navigational tools compared to the ETO.

There are some limited counter measures for the Japanese player and you should direct your oppenent to read Lowpe's 'Turnaround' AAR as his opponent practiced unrestricted night time bombing.



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RE: Night fighters - 12/27/2015 7:25:55 PM   
John B.


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I agreed to not use my heavies in night bombing (except of course, for strategic missions) as they seemed to be the ones who were really blowing the fighters out of the air. Both sides used a great deal of night bombing throughout the war.

I have a number of groups bombing but I have yet to have more than one group at a time make it over the target so there will be a whole series of raids on one airfield rather than on giant raid. Once his CAP runs out of OPs points I do some damage to his base but that does not seem out of whack. He has 162 fighters stacked on the base in question so it's not a surprise that I hit something when I can get close to the airfield. :-)

Thanks for the tip. I'll direct Scott to it.

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RE: Night fighters - 12/27/2015 8:58:00 PM   
DanSez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

Thanks for the tip. I'll direct Scott to it.


Very nice. It is great to see players working on long term gamesmanship.

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RE: Night fighters - 12/27/2015 11:14:36 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

crsutton,

That's an interesting idea. The night attacks don't seem all that effective but sometimes I've killed planes on the ground and I did put a torpedo in a IJN CV once. Keeps each side on their toes.

But, here is a separate problem that has come up. It seems that my door gunners have found the range and my night bombing B24s and B-25s have really been shooting down the night CAP. Scott has some carrier air groups over Burma and in the past two turns my night bombing mediums and heavies have shot down 26 (yes, 26) zeros. That does not make sense at all as his zeros don't hit anything except, oddly, the night fighting beaufighters who are attacking the airfields. Has any one else notices increased accuracy of bombers vs. fighters at night?

I suspect the Allied planes had radar and the Japanese ones did not. The AI factors radar into shooting/bombing accuracy at night. Meanwhile the night fighters have to approach slowly and close before they can shoot - no 'bounce' here! They are practically sitting ducks.
Later on the Japanese get some real NFs that are much harder to shoot down and much more dangerous to HBs.

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RE: Night fighters - 12/27/2015 11:30:14 PM   
kbfchicago


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Lots of posts and folks have weighed in on this (to include one by myself years ago with a post that started much like yours). NF only CAP (or RCAP) at night. No sweep, no escort as PAX and LoBaron noted.


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RE: Night fighters - 1/12/2016 3:01:55 PM   
John B.


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Just an interesting update as I've been reading a history of the Pacific war. Night torpedo attacks seems to have been the most effective tool in the Japanese box in late 43. During that time they put a torpedo into the Lexington II, the CVL Independence and the Intrepid. None were sunk but all were badly damaged. It was during a night attack on the Lexington that a Betty shot down Butch O'Hare (of O'Hare airport fame). Also, the Americans launched a night attack on Truk with TBFs that were guided solely by radar (it was a bomb attack) that scored 13 hits and sank 8 ships. So far in our game the only night hit against ships was a torpedo hit on the Junyo during a full moon but we have not flown very many naval missions. Our house rule is that radar planes can fly night missions whenever and all other non-4 engine bombers can fly night missions if the moonlight is 50+ 4 Engine bombers can only fly city attacks at night.

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