Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Why Steam?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Why Steam? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 10:16:58 AM   
76mm


Posts: 3415
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: online
I've seen a lot of people on the forum say that they would like to buy a game, but will wait for the Steam version, etc.

I don't use Steam, and don't understand why people prefer to use it; I've always been perfectly content to download games to my PC.

Could someone who likes Steam please explain why they like it?

Not trying to start a flame war here, just trying to figure out if I'm missing out on something that I would like.
Post #: 1
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 10:50:03 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 21323
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: online
for me steam is simple,

don't have to worry about patches, it's auto

don't have to worry about drivers or anything else as it has to be loaded with steam, so 7 games etc, mean's 7 loads of the same stuff, drx, .net etc etc msvc+ etc etc as it doesn't matter it loads what is needed for that game to work no matter what.

have a list of all games loaded, in a package etc, for me i take a steam dump, back up to a older HD and save, then if any problems have a back to reinstalled, just reload steam file and copy data over and with a few clicks all is up and running, no re downloading it all, atm it's only 140gb in size, but some have 1tb plus so for a big collector that's a lot of re downloading & patching etc.

good support if anything goes wrong, not as good as here, but for me almost, only used it once but was really good and quick tbh.

prices, sales and no cd/dvd's needed.

now the bad,

full of kids, forums are terrible and can be full of low end junk in budget price range with next to chance of ever being finished into a fully working game, green light can mean low end rubbish not for sale for me at any price, so you need to be careful.

for every great review there 100 bad ones saying all sorts of rubbish, as not great mods as it's too big to fully mod everything, so developers work can be spoilt by a few bad kids tbh.

if it works your ok, if it doesn't everyone jumps on you like a ton of bricks and will slate you for ever and a day, there not many second chances for developers as they don't take prisoners much, or like excuses or delays either for that matter.

on the whole it's how the world is going, no boxes and in some respect maybe not more home brew pc's as steam boxes are becoming more common now as well, but as yet i'm not a fan atm, but may go down the route in a few more years if they pan out to be going well...

so for me 7 / 8 out of 10

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 2
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 12:56:07 PM   
76mm


Posts: 3415
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: online
Thanks for the feedback.

To me it sounds like the Steam forums are more or less a waste of time?

Most of the other advantages are not very important to me--I went all digital years ago and have backups of all games in the cloud and on a home server. All of my games are in a folder on my desktop, so they are all easy to find and launch.

Not having to worry about patches would be nice, but not that big a deal to me.

Are there other advantages? People seem to like Steam, so again I think I might be overlooking some of its attractive features.

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 3
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 1:30:22 PM   
wodin


Posts: 9653
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
I use Steam happily aswell. Can uninstall and reinstall as often as you like. Plus ease of use. Games always get updated automatically. Just never really bothered me to be honest. Personally I always wondered why people had\have an issue with Steam. I too back up all my other games but this takes the hassle out of it and you know your not going to loose the game through some unforeseen issue.

Never bothered with the forums. Alot of people like the achievements, it was nice getting my marksmen badge in Red Orchestra 2 I have to admit:) Also Steam Workshop is great if you like modding your games or for instance in ARMA 2\3 downloading new scenarios.

All round it just makes life abit easier to be honest.



< Message edited by wodin -- 12/15/2015 2:31:48 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 4
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 1:34:29 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 21323
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: online
i will make a post on steam forum only when hell freezes over or have to maker a point, but as every word you type can get misinterpret either way with kids, you have to be very careful there with comments as there loads of idiots there taking trash and rubbish, i'm sure there either under 12 or on drugs, or both, Workshop good, easy to add mods, didn't like it when they went pay 4 mods but as that didn't last long as backlash was epic in size and scale so they altered it very quick tbh

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 5
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 2:30:23 PM   
76mm


Posts: 3415
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Personally I always wondered why people had\have an issue with Steam.


I can't say I've got any issue with Steam, but at the same time don't see any pressing need to transition to it.

The only real reason I see to avoid Steam (other than any hassle required to transition to it) is that not all games come out on Steam right away (or sometimes at all), so then you've either got to wait for games to come out on Steam (if ever) or have some games on Steam and some on the desktop, which seems like it would be a pain.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback!

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 6
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 5:21:28 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4608
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

i will make a post on steam forum only when hell freezes over or have to maker a point, but as every word you type can get misinterpret either way with kids, you have to be very careful there with comments as there loads of idiots there taking trash and rubbish, i'm sure there either under 12 or on drugs, or both, Workshop good, easy to add mods, didn't like it when they went pay 4 mods but as that didn't last long as backlash was epic in size and scale so they altered it very quick tbh


There are alot adults on Steam and most of the kids are very well behaved, and like to here what their elders are saying. You pick your friends and use common sense when posting or commenting...I have had very little trouble on Steam! It is a great gaming community! Pretty harsh words about Steam coming from a Matrix moderator...

Patrick

_____________________________

Please come and join and befriend me at the great Steam portal! There are quite a few Matrix/Slitherine players on Steam! My member page: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988402427

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 7
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 5:38:52 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 21323
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: online
you may not have been on the end of some heated debates as me then, but i was speaking as a member, not a moderator tbh, sorry for not making that clearer in the first post, as yes i agree not all are idiots there, just it seems to be that way when ever i have had the misfortune of posting and getting some very poor replies, the staff there are great and support as well, both mentioned, but most i'm sure if asked about the forum there will say the same, in some it's a free for all, in others it's mentioned something out of line and your out, as with the size it's hard to say really what is the problem there, i'm just glad i don't have to go there for any of my forum posts, i go there less and less now, and atm only have one contact on steam i talk to, as most have left and gone elsewhere, as we say onto more brown up sites, but yes until you have been on the end of some of the bad comments there, it does sound rather harsh, but i wouldn't wish the attacks and rubbish i've seen posted onto anyone i know anywhere either, i can but won't name more than a few developers who say it's the evil they have to do to sell games but not through choice, regarding the forums, where as even a small delay, illness or worse get jumped on as a major disaster and a rant on what ever the user likes to throw mud just for the sake of it, look at the numbers here and how many get warned and banned per year?

then look at the numbers on steam and see how many warning and banned users are there, for a % increase in number, the warning and bans just don't make sense until you see the age range of both places, so i agree my comments are harsh and totally my own, have nothing to do with the views of any staff member, as i'm a community mod, not a staff mod, so are a normal members who just helps out, and have the same opinions as everyone else, no better no worse tbh, i'm not a steam hater, as mentioned above, i like it and use it, but the forums imo only need more moderating, and so says more than a high percentage of steam user if you look at the top complaints on steam.

here are some figures for this years and total since steam began, bans.

3,430,752 bans in the database.

i don't think i need to say any more tbh, the picture always says a 1000 words and speaks for itself




highest one day bans ever was 11k, that's a lot of naughty people in any ones book, if a % got banned for cheating, with another high % for other bad stuff, the rest a equally high amount was forum warnings and bans.

i have no figures for here, Ian maybe able to chip in, but i'd guess it runs at less than 1 a month maybe.

now on the point of ages, the steam surveys says, well we don't really need to know ages now do we?

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=swedish


so for me 7 / 8 out of 10 for me also was a good positive score imo

i apologies Patrick, i have no right to be so opinionated either as a new mod here i need to keep my mouth closed more often, sorry i'm still learning

and also for the novel

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by zakblood -- 12/15/2015 8:38:31 PM >

(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 8
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 7:02:00 PM   
budd


Posts: 2598
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online
Steam is really nice if you play all kinds of different games. Easy to install, patch and mod. Easy when you get a new PC. You can add non steam game shortcuts to steam, so you can have all your games open from steam interface. Nothing on desktop needed.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 9
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 8:06:11 PM   
demyansk


Posts: 2170
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
I like this post about Steam. All good opinions. My two cents on it- I like Steam and it's convenient. However, for most of the Matrix products I still have them from Matrix. I went with Steam however, with Flashpoint, since it was 10 dollars cheaper. I like Steam as well with the friends list to chat and talk with others. I go to Matrix when I have questions but some of the questions I asked on Steam turned out well.

I didn't realize that many people got banned. The one thing though is I have a lot of Steam games but only ever play a few. When I move to another machine, it will be a lot of work with the Matrix products.

What is the best thing to do when moving to another machine?

(in reply to budd)
Post #: 10
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 8:11:35 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 21323
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: online
with steam games or site versions?

steam it's

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8794-yphv-2033


sites it's manual, as most store files elsewhere that a standard backup won't reinstall, so for me i image the drive, in other words make a 100% copy, so if it goes down and just plug in another one, as HD are cheap, even SDD's now days tbh

(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 11
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 8:22:01 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8984
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
I really like to have the ability to start a pc from scratch and access my steam "cloud" from anywhere.... dsl is a must though...

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 12
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 8:44:10 PM   
major.pain

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 3/27/2012
Status: offline
I have been using Steam since way back in 2007 and would echo most of the positives already mentioned however you don’t actually own your game on Steam you pay Steam for a license so you can access it providing you follow all the rules and agree to there Subscriber Agreement all is well, for now anyway.

I don’t have any recent problems using Steam and will continue to do so but I would rather a service like GOG be the main way we but our games any day of the week. I only think Steam started offering refunds because GOG shamed them into it by offering refunds first.

Steam used to have a real problem with their client a few years back if you lost your internet connection. If client was not shut down just so before you turned off your PC then the “Offline Mode” of Steam would not work until you connected to the net again to update the client, a real bitch when you lost your net out of the blue.
You just got some real infuriating message like “Steam needs to connect to the internet so you can play offline”. Lost count of the times I would be screaming at the screen “How the f*ck am I supposed to go online so I can go offline with no internet you hlkjeijkdhsf ;kle;o;lihg;l keqogai dh;wlek akhdshflkshio off”.

The other thing that still bugs about Steam is you can only open your Steam account on one machine at a time. Why would that be a problem??
I still enjoy playing a few Lan games when friends or nephews come over and with none Steam games I can just install a copy on a couple of PC’s at home and then your good to go. Steam needs you to buy 2 copies of the game and have 2 separate accounts each with a copy to play this way and it really bugs the sh*t out of me and makes it completely unworkable >.<

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 13
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 9:35:20 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 8984
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
and this off line issue with steam is really resolved..
If I pull the plug on my dsl the steam offline works fine..
but you said you own a license... ALL SOFTWARE is that way, you own the license to use on X computer. be it one ten a hundred.. its just not a thing... Like I own the record and the player, archaic... but not the song.
Its a bitch I know to have more than one pc rule, but from their perspective and ANY developer this is the rule, some will allow two but really read any Matrix game from any time period and the leagal-ease will state this ... we own the rights to use the software ...blah blah blah I know its infuriating being treated this way.. but users brought this about by rampant piracy

(in reply to major.pain)
Post #: 14
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 11:16:41 PM   
Terl


Posts: 609
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
I rather like Steam, I have been a member since 2004/5 when I bought Half Life 2. The sales at Christmas are great and I have quite a few games on Steam now. Like others said, I stay out of the forums and stay away from crazy rants. I tend to stay away from all the early access stuff too; some never really pans out. I still prefer owning a game outright, like with Matrix or I will get some from GOG. If a game is on Steam but also over at GOG I will get it at GOG first. If it is a Matrix or Slitherine game, I buy it direct :)

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 15
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 11:20:39 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2316
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline
Per Zakblood, having Steam auto-install the various MS software needed to run the game is a huge benefit. Especially if you're upgrading from 7-year-old XP computer!

Minor example: I can run old games like ToW2 Caen on Steam. Meanwhile, my ToW3 Korea game from Gamersgate won't run on my new computer. Also the Scourge of War series is going to be a bear to re-install with all the modules

I also thank Matrix for giving us both options on some games, and hope Steam sales are strengthening the company to some level. Possible evidence of this is I've seen a number of new posters here since Matrix went Steam. Especially on the hardcore titles you would not expect to be as popular.

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 16
RE: Why Steam? - 12/15/2015 11:32:31 PM   
hellfish6


Posts: 828
Joined: 6/15/2008
Status: offline
I'm on my 6th computer since getting Steam, and probably ten moves across country or around the world. I still have access to all (250+) games I've ever bought on it. I was in BFE, Africa on a crappy wifi in a cement hut and could still download games I bought years and years ago.

I haven't experienced any downside to the service yet.

_____________________________


(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 17
RE: Why Steam? - 12/16/2015 1:28:25 AM   
76mm


Posts: 3415
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: online
Very interesting, thanks for all of the replies. I really only play strategy/wargames--probably 75% of the games I've bought over the last few years have been from Matrix (along with Battlefront and JTS).

For now, I think I'll continue to take a pass on Steam; not because I really have anything against it, but mainly out of laziness. While I appreciate the various advantages people have mentioned, they are not very important to me. For instance, I change computers every five years or so, and even then I don't re-install all of my old games, just the handful of games I'm playing lately. But if I want to install others later I can easily do that as well.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback everyone, it is good to have choice in these matters!


(in reply to hellfish6)
Post #: 18
RE: Why Steam? - 12/16/2015 7:56:07 PM   
tevans6220

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline
The only thing I really hate about Steam is their Early Access program. To me it seems like a way for some shady 'developers' to walk off with a lot of money. I've purchased a few games that were in Early Access and the only one that has actually been successfully released has been Kerbal Space Program. Other games like Planet Explorers have remained in a state of perpetual development with updates few and far between. Then you have games like Star Forge where the developers promised the world, took people's money and delivered very little of what was promised. Eventually they declared Star Forge a 'finished' game and took people's money to start another Early Access game based on a Medieval setting. Valve needs to do something to put controls and limits on developers using Early Access because right now the consumer has no recourse if a 'developer' walks off with their money. Personally I think they should kill Early Access and games shouldn't be released until they're actually ready for market. Or at least as ready as the market is willing to accept. It's true nobody forces you to buy into Early Access but once you do there has to be some sort of consumer protection in place.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 19
RE: Why Steam? - 12/16/2015 11:38:11 PM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1209
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline
Cost nothing to sign up.

Steam has been very good to me. I'm able to play games and chat with my RL friends and family members. Forums are not so bad. Just realize Steam is open to every gamer around the world with access. Its amazing the people you end up meeting over time.

Just about every game has a dedicated player base. Which many times translates into a group you can join to find like minded gamers. As well as groups based on your location in the world.

Has a lot of free games you can play if you like them. mostly mmo's.

Access to lots of games and people of all types, open 24/7. Can play online or offline.

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to tevans6220)
Post #: 20
RE: Why Steam? - 12/17/2015 8:02:52 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2855
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline
Yeah, steam is more for the gamer who plays casual games. Most of the good strategy games you can still get and play without steam except Total War games and I'm not sure about the Civilization franchise now. But, Civ V did it for me anyways. I care not for another edition of Civilization. I like II the best and always will. IV is pretty good also but I didn't like they took out the rare resources in certain countries and you had to go fight for them. So, I'll play III from time to time to get that part of the play back.

It does have a lot of junk on it now since they started that greenlight thing and I can't believe all those platformers I keep seeing. It looks like we went back 30 years.

I still buy the occasional bargain bin priced game and the free to plays but that's about it. Scares me enough that my Total War games are in the hands of Steam. Still got Medieval I though and that's the only one I really care enough about to not want to lose it.

< Message edited by aaatoysandmore -- 12/17/2015 9:03:32 AM >

(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 21
RE: Why Steam? - 12/17/2015 8:07:23 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 21323
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: online
i bought the whole game collection on offer once, in a massive sale, was less priced than one full game so couldn't miss it at that price, now have every game they have made in one collection, apart from the newest, but don't like it anyway so that's fine





was on offer at £29.99 for the whole set was $50 but used a money off voucher code and got more off

all games, plus every DLC / addon



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by zakblood -- 12/17/2015 9:11:51 AM >

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
Post #: 22
RE: Why Steam? - 12/17/2015 9:33:00 AM   
demyansk


Posts: 2170
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
Just like Zakk showed, you can get some good deals. I think the best method is to use both and be careful about your personal information. I like Steam and it will come in handily when I move to another machine. Plus, I got a real good deal on the war game titles.

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 23
RE: Why Steam? - 12/18/2015 3:18:14 AM   
lordhoff


Posts: 281
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
This may not go over well (especially my following example) but I for one will not use "steam". Too many horror stories of games on steam that were not compatible with their system. They had to know this but sold them anyway without any kind of warning. I just don't support sharp business practices. Probably the most famous one is "Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines". It won't work unless one moves the whole thing to a new folder and change the target location of where the game looks for it away from steam. Then the short cut needs to be adapted. While a modder fixed this in his patch/mods, unless one knew this (and most new buyers do not), the game simply would not work. Sure, they got a refund but nothing for the headaches.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 24
RE: Why Steam? - 12/18/2015 4:54:56 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 21323
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: online
http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

(in reply to lordhoff)
Post #: 25
RE: Why Steam? - 12/18/2015 6:09:58 AM   
radic202


Posts: 594
Joined: 6/7/2012
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
I like Steam, it auto-patches, has a great variety of games plus I can us the Steam Cards that don't force me to use my Credit Card. I have been a Member for years and never have had a "bad moment". Plus it keeps all my games in the same launcher which is a bonus for me. I love the fact that I can access their Forums for all kinds of info not on only one game but on all that I own. I have transferred all my Matrix/Slitherine games (that are on Steam) over to their system and don't regret it one bit. Only thing I do not like is that you basically are at the mercy of Steam if they ever decided to "fold" as all your game are basically a "rental" even though you own them fully. Bonus also is that some members form these Forums are "friended" with me on Steam.

Also, and I have said it before, I absolutely love that Matrix "moderators/managers" make a strong presence on their Forums answering Steam members questions (looking at you Erik). That is just amazing and shows how dedicated Staff are to all the gaming platforms.

< Message edited by radic202 -- 12/18/2015 7:11:49 AM >


_____________________________

It is much harder to think about doing something than actually doing it!

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 26
RE: Why Steam? - 12/18/2015 7:30:08 AM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 1801
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline
Back then when Steam was release, there was few games I wanted that require Steam to work and I wasn't happy with that at all. Back then I was living out in the country and didn't have the internet. Believe it was Empire Total War and cant remember what else. So that put me in position to move if I want the internet. Most satellite or dish internet are too costly and unreliable.

One thing that Steam does provide discount time to time, usually the holidays, wish that is good news. Auto patching and keeping up to date on things.

The only thing that bother me is that, what if something happen and all those programs are gone or wiped. So that why I don't pay full amount on those programs or software. Anyway even if your account get hacked, they cant delete those games or software and they will help you to restore it. But on the other hand, don't keep your credit card records on that account, if they manage to hack it, imagine they bought so much craps and put you in dept.

Around four years ago I bought few games on sale, unfort it didn't work at all, too bad I couldn't get a refund for it until now. Had to get that game didn't work from Gamersgate.

There is one site got me screwed big time, something to do with Gamefly that took over another site and almost all my games got lost. Tried to contact them about it, wasn't much can do about it. So I had to start all over by looking for another solution.

< Message edited by RisingSun -- 12/18/2015 8:31:40 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to radic202)
Post #: 27
RE: Why Steam? - 12/18/2015 8:51:15 AM   
demyansk


Posts: 2170
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
I know I have brought this up before, Steam - we only pay the money for the right to play the game. Sort of a lifetime lease of the product. This one aspect of Steam is the part that troubles most of us. I am sure if they ever folded, one of the gamers would start a class action suit. I wonder if anyone has challenged this. I like Steam and do you guys know why most people get banned? Do they have an appeal process?

(in reply to Rising-Sun)
Post #: 28
RE: Why Steam? - 12/18/2015 9:01:29 PM   
hellfish6


Posts: 828
Joined: 6/15/2008
Status: offline
Technically, you only pay for the right to play a lot of (most? all?) of the media you own - including music, tv shows, movies, games, etc. I'm not worried about some far-off hypothetical future where Steam/Valve collapses so completely that I no longer have access to the games I bought - certainly not enough to avoid the savings, convenience and ease of use that Steam presently offers (and has offered for something like a decade now). I'm reasonably sure something else will come along to take their place.

_____________________________


(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 29
RE: Why Steam? - 12/19/2015 3:02:14 AM   
76mm


Posts: 3415
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: online
While it's true that all of our computer games are only licensed, I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to play the games on my computer for as long as I care too. With steam, while I doubt they will collapse in the foreseeable future, it is certainly more than a theoretical possibility, as is the risk that they will change terms somehow. Anyway, probably not a critical factor but one more issue to consider, at least for me.

My big constraint is time, so the ability to buy more/cheaper games is not a big draw for me--I don't have enough time to play the games I have already.

(in reply to hellfish6)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Why Steam? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.230