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RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo)

 
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RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 2/23/2016 7:53:16 PM   
STEF78


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caliJP
100 brigades will get you 33 Corps, which is more than enough in 1942.

It's a good idea but would cost 660 AP....

We are currently end may 1942 and I spare AP to create rifle corps!

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Post #: 91
April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 2/23/2016 8:05:32 PM   
STEF78


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Turn 45, 23th april 1942

Snow in central russia allows some progress for the german and a potential encirclement appears... I will give some ground around Kharkov

Near Kaluga, my line holds firmly. See however german MCV, we don't have the same leaders!




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Post #: 92
RE: April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 2/24/2016 2:46:22 AM   
caliJP

 

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STEF ok got it, we play different strategies then. I find Rifle Corps are not the right tool for defense in 1942 as you need more a defense in depth with a lot of units as opposed to concentrated manpower in Corps. So i don't build Rifle Corps until 1943, they are too expensive in 1942.
But that is just my opinion and strategy

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Post #: 93
RE: April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 2/24/2016 9:25:05 AM   
821Bobo


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I respectfully disagree. There is use for rifle corps in 42. You can use it to defend bottlenecks, vital areas or for counter attacks. I am not advocating en masse creating corps however dozen of them can be handy in 42.

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Post #: 94
RE: April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 2/24/2016 10:54:54 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

I respectfully disagree. There is use for rifle corps in 42. You can use it to defend bottlenecks, vital areas or for counter attacks. I am not advocating en masse creating corps however dozen of them can be handy in 42.


I'd agree with this, a couple of armies built around Gds Rifle Corps are incredibly useful, there are times when being able to stack 20+ attack cv in a hex is critical - and it makes a German player cautious about pockets held just by single divisions.

Only time I would build a lot in 42 is if I felt my opponent was really going for Moscow

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Post #: 95
RE: April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 2/24/2016 4:17:17 PM   
chaos45

 

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I don't think he has near the forces to pull off that pincer based on that screenshot. Much to ambitious.

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Post #: 96
RE: April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 2/25/2016 10:13:04 PM   
STEF78


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

I don't think he has near the forces to pull off that pincer based on that screenshot. Much to ambitious.

With clear weather all along the front, it can be done.

Clear the first 2 lines with inf and pzd/mot from Kaluga and South Stalino. And keep some units to achieve encirclement

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Post #: 97
RE: April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 2/25/2016 10:22:15 PM   
chaos45

 

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Well dont let him do that and checkerboard the area you think he wants to go to lol.

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Post #: 98
RE: April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 2/25/2016 10:27:57 PM   
STEF78


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I won't let him do that of course. But the question is always the same every turn:

Should I stay or should I go?

We are 5 turns ahead this AAR and I have currently a strong headache.... but I will tell you that later!

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Post #: 99
April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 2/26/2016 8:58:01 PM   
STEF78


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Turn 46, 30th april 1942

Mud except in South Russia. Bobo is still digging in my lines, slowly but surely...



In the center, he widens his hole.



And the OOB: Stavka is above 7M men...


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Post #: 100
RE: April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 2/26/2016 10:10:04 PM   
caliJP

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

I respectfully disagree. There is use for rifle corps in 42. You can use it to defend bottlenecks, vital areas or for counter attacks. I am not advocating en masse creating corps however dozen of them can be handy in 42.


I'd agree with this, a couple of armies built around Gds Rifle Corps are incredibly useful, there are times when being able to stack 20+ attack cv in a hex is critical - and it makes a German player cautious about pockets held just by single divisions.

Only time I would build a lot in 42 is if I felt my opponent was really going for Moscow


I agree that Rifle Corps can be helpful in some cases. In one of my games, I ended up with the Germans very close to Moscow and the only way to prevent them from getting to the city was to build a wall of Rifle Corps. But it’s not the case in many AARs that I see here.

So I’ll agree to disagree with the disagreement just for the fun of it. :)

The way I see it, Rifle Corps in small quantities (like an army or two) are pocket bait south of the Oka river. They are only useful in the better defensive terrain north of the Oka. But in STEF’s case Leningrad has already fallen and the Germans are far from Moscow, so with all the good defensive terrain they are a long way from getting there. So I don’t think there are any important objectives at risk north of the Oka that warrant hoarding APs to build Rifle Corps, and leaving the Red Army south of the Oka with few means of counterattacking as a consequence.

Anyway just my way of looking at it, luckily we all play differently so it’s not the boring same game each time.

Looking fwd to seeing how things unfold.


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Post #: 101
May 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/2/2016 12:03:40 PM   
STEF78


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Turn 47, 7th may 1942

Weather has turned to sunny and the german hordes try to pierce our mighty lines of defence

Kaluga

Heavy resistance of the 22th army



Bielgorod

5th army gives "calmly" some ground



North Stalino

Strong blow, but the line holds



South Stalino

We are still fighting for the suburbs of Stalino!



And the OOB, still growing


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Post #: 102
May 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/7/2016 7:44:13 PM   
STEF78


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Turn 48, 14th may 1942

Thanks to clear weather 821Bobo insists in the South. He reaches level 1 fortification....



An overall view of the front with the potential german moves


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Post #: 103
BREAKTHROUGH!! (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/10/2016 10:28:39 PM   
STEF78


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Turn 50, 28th may 1942

Bad feeling at the opening of the turn. Bobo managed to pierce my front line in the South and crossed the Donets and the Don... i've lost my best natural defences in the South before Caucasus mountains.



My units don't have sufficient Mp to clear the southern bank of the Don... But then, a look at the weather table... I should normally have mud on the next turn



I will bet on mud! The 43rd army is sent to block the direct road to Stalingrad, even if I doubt that it is his first goal. I think his first target will be Rostov and the armies in the area



Crimea is evacuated



The situation after my moves. No retreat right now.


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Post #: 104
RE: April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/11/2016 9:42:21 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caliJP

quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

I respectfully disagree. There is use for rifle corps in 42. You can use it to defend bottlenecks, vital areas or for counter attacks. I am not advocating en masse creating corps however dozen of them can be handy in 42.


I'd agree with this, a couple of armies built around Gds Rifle Corps are incredibly useful, there are times when being able to stack 20+ attack cv in a hex is critical - and it makes a German player cautious about pockets held just by single divisions.

Only time I would build a lot in 42 is if I felt my opponent was really going for Moscow


I agree that Rifle Corps can be helpful in some cases. In one of my games, I ended up with the Germans very close to Moscow and the only way to prevent them from getting to the city was to build a wall of Rifle Corps. But it’s not the case in many AARs that I see here.

So I’ll agree to disagree with the disagreement just for the fun of it. :)

The way I see it, Rifle Corps in small quantities (like an army or two) are pocket bait south of the Oka river. They are only useful in the better defensive terrain north of the Oka. But in STEF’s case Leningrad has already fallen and the Germans are far from Moscow, so with all the good defensive terrain they are a long way from getting there. So I don’t think there are any important objectives at risk north of the Oka that warrant hoarding APs to build Rifle Corps, and leaving the Red Army south of the Oka with few means of counterattacking as a consequence.

Anyway just my way of looking at it, luckily we all play differently so it’s not the boring same game each time.

Looking fwd to seeing how things unfold.


My own view is that there is no right answer in this debate. However, in any particular game there will be an optimum army build given available resources.

As a general (ie pointless) platitude, the better the soviets are doing, the more inf xxx the better unless you have better things to do with your AP points

I warned you that I was going to write something that doesn't really help .


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Post #: 105
RE: April 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/12/2016 3:09:17 AM   
Pelton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caliJP

STEF ok got it, we play different strategies then. I find Rifle Corps are not the right tool for defense in 1942 as you need more a defense in depth with a lot of units as opposed to concentrated manpower in Corps. So i don't build Rifle Corps until 1943, they are too expensive in 1942.
But that is just my opinion and strategy


Some would find your stratedy a hmm a tragedy.

Be flexable - your tragedy is to easy to packman.

You new,






< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/12/2016 3:13:12 AM >


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Post #: 106
June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/14/2016 11:53:03 PM   
STEF78


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Turn 51, 4th june 1942

As scheduled, weather is muddy. Next week will see clear weather in the South. I give ground to avoid a pocket around Rostov


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Post #: 107
June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/15/2016 11:20:09 PM   
STEF78


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Turn 52, 11th june 1942

The battle has changed! Major moves during this week

1) OKH gives up in front of Kaluga
I've created my first rifle corps in this area =>It's mean that Moscow is fully safe at the moment.



Fierce battle in front of Voronejh
A strong Pzd/Mot force is trying, week after week to make a breakthrough at this place. Our defence is successfull till now.



Open fields in the south
With clear weather, german units are spreading in the South... I'm not strong enough to do anything but retreating



After my moves... I hope that the germans will be short of fuel. 2 armies in the back are ready to be redeployed. Others will follow.


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Post #: 108
RE: June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/16/2016 8:44:58 AM   
RKhan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

After my moves... I hope that the germans will be short of fuel. 2 armies in the back are ready to be redeployed. Others will follow.




Then you had best defend the rail crossings near Rostov. Right now he is very exposed tracing supply over one or even two major rivers.

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Post #: 109
RE: June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/16/2016 9:18:01 AM   
821Bobo


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quote:


Then you had best defend the rail crossings near Rostov. Right now he is very exposed tracing supply over one or even two major rivers.


Luftwaffe is saving the day.

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Post #: 110
RE: June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/16/2016 7:55:34 PM   
STEF78


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RKhan


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

After my moves... I hope that the germans will be short of fuel. 2 armies in the back are ready to be redeployed. Others will follow.




Then you had best defend the rail crossings near Rostov. Right now he is very exposed tracing supply over one or even two major rivers.

At this stage bobo has PzHQ at less than 20MP from the railhead

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Post #: 111
RE: June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/16/2016 7:56:16 PM   
STEF78


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Luftwaffe is saving the day.

Flying pigs are back!

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Post #: 112
June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/20/2016 9:07:55 PM   
STEF78


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Turn 53, 18th june 1942

Bobo is advancing to the South at full speed (he reached Vorochilovsk) but he is also threatening Stalingrad (map before my moves). Always surprised with the ability of german Pzd to advance so fast!



Both OOB are climbing (except AFV for me), we are ready for the big summer fight!



The game will be on pause till Bobo is able to fix his laptop


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Post #: 113
RE: June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/21/2016 10:58:58 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78
...
Always surprised with the ability of german Pzd to advance so fast!

....



ahem


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Post #: 114
RE: June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/21/2016 5:47:05 PM   
821Bobo


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quote:

The game will be on pause till Bobo is able to fix his laptop


It's desktop and I was wrong, it's not the graphic card but monitor. However it's working now(more or less) so I will try to finish my move.

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Post #: 115
June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/22/2016 10:56:12 PM   
STEF78


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Turn 53, after my moves

I strongly reinforce the Stalingrad area and calmly retreat to the Caucasus mountains. My army is totally split in two independent parts.




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June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/29/2016 8:49:20 PM   
STEF78


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Turn 54, 23th june 1942

Je suis un sombre crétin!!! I'm a donkey!!! I should have known that the Pzd/Mot can drive hard during several weeks!

Grozny has fallen! The direct rail line between Krasnodar and Baku is cut and most of my army is close from the Black sea or north of Stalingrad.

And another bad news, the rail between Stalingrad and Astrakhan is also cut.


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Post #: 117
June 1942 (STE78 vs 821bobo) - 3/29/2016 8:55:48 PM   
STEF78


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Turn 54, 25th june 1942 part-2

No Pzd anymore in the area of Kaluga



I decide to extract the whole Volkhov front from Moscow



And I counterattack the flanks of the german spearhead near Voronejh. I also consolidate the sector



< Message edited by STEF78 -- 3/29/2016 9:08:22 PM >

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Post #: 118
Bobo knows - 3/30/2016 12:06:32 AM   
BrianG

 

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You better get a block down toward Baku. That could be fatal If he takes it b/c you can't rail in.

His tanks will go low on fuel soon the further they go. He may have one more good tank. Or not.

Very interesting race (both sides) to Baku


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Post #: 119
RE: Bobo knows - 3/30/2016 12:30:32 AM   
timmyab

 

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Yes Baku is the key. If he gets there first it's probably game set and match. I notice that the rail line to Baku may still be open. It's a long way though even if you have a reserve on rails and if it's open this turn it certainly wont be next. The only other way to reinforce Baku is the port at Guriev or some kind of airlift.

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