Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations >> Mods and Scenarios >> Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/4/2015 2:44:59 AM   
HalfLifeExpert


Posts: 587
Joined: 7/20/2015
From: California, United States
Status: offline
As I now think it is ok to propose ideas for scenarios open to anyone to try and make, I propose my first idea:

This can also be seen as a challenge for those experienced scenario builders.

I think a great scenario (or series of scenarios) could be based on the classic Tom Clancy novel: The Hunt For Red October.

As the story goes over a period of 17 days, it is not practical to have any one scenario do the whole thing.

However, I think a scenario about the hunt for the Red October would not be the most interesting approach.

I propose a scenario where fighting breaks out between the two massive fleets that were sent to sea after the Red October went rogue.

A sort of 'What if?' from a fictional story, a massive battle in the North Atlantic. I think by thumbing through the pages of the novel one can build enough of a basic order of battle to be filled in with reasonable assumptions of the units based on what was in the Soviet and NATO fleets at the time (late 1984).

I think the most interesting way to look at this is that neither fleet was really prepared to engage each other, as opposed to a WWIII scenario:

The Soviet Fleet was hell-bent on sinking a rogue sub, the NATO fleet was responding but only has one full size carrier immediately available.

and it is sort of quick, out of nowhere engagement in certain respects

From what I remember, on NATO side there was

the HMS Invincible group, USS John F Kennedy Group, USS New Jersey/USS Tarawa Group. Also USS America was in the South Atlantic early in the Story, so it's group could be added.

On Soviet Side

EDIT: Quote from the book: "Ryan scrutinized the blow ups "WOW! Kirov, Moskva, Kiev, three Karas, five Krestas, four Krivaks, eight Udaloys, and five Soveremenys""

Also the book later adds 58 Soviet subs, perhaps that is a bit much, so that could be cut down.

Of course in submarines, there has to be the Los Angeles Class USS Dallas and the Alfa Class VK Konovalov, the Red October may not be needed for a battle scenario, as I think that sub would be forgotten about once the shooting starts.

< Message edited by HalfLifeExpert -- 10/4/2015 4:29:07 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/4/2015 5:58:30 PM   
magi

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: 2/1/2014
Status: offline
Interesting.... That's a lot of stuff.... But I will say… That soviet naval doctrine would require surface action groups to be within the range of land-based naval aircraft to support them .... Or they would just get creamed…

(in reply to HalfLifeExpert)
Post #: 2
RE: Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/4/2015 8:41:25 PM   
SSN754planker


Posts: 445
Joined: 10/2/2013
Status: offline
This has been wargamed out in serveral different games before, computer, and good old pen and paper wargames, and judging by the books description of the opposing fleets, the russians would have had a very exciting and short life had things gone bad. There are several mentions of the russians being in range of land based CONUS assets. not to mention a carrier and a half, their escorts, i believe an iowa class was there along with its escorts, and a nimitz was steaming hard in that direction from the south atlantic.

_____________________________

MY BOOK LIST
ST1/SS SSN 754

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 3
RE: Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/5/2015 4:10:34 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 6974
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel/Bulgaria
Status: offline
It might even a bit if Russians would get Yak-141 instead of Yak-38.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to SSN754planker)
Post #: 4
RE: Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/10/2016 9:05:39 PM   
Excroat3

 

Posts: 417
Joined: 1/24/2015
Status: offline
I read through the book again just for fun and decided to see if I could log down all the forces mentioned in the book, to help ease the process of anyone thinking about making a scenario based on the book. Long story short, the fighting would be absolutely disastrous for the Soviet Navy. Some highlights of what I found:

1600+ aircraft for the US side (!)
60+ subs for the Soviet side, plus 30 ships

It would be a huge battle for the first 6 hours I'm guessing as the player absolutely obliterates the Soviet Navy, then a much longer, drawn out ASW battle for the rest of the scenario.

Full document can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18JrEbZWsJz-gdbod9x0T86j4h1gkggIMKwZt88qGVZc/edit?usp=sharing

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 5
RE: Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/10/2016 9:30:44 PM   
djoos5


Posts: 367
Joined: 10/25/2013
From: Ohio
Status: offline
How about you create a scenario where the player plays Ramius and the Red October.

The player would have one unit - the Red October.

Enemy ships would be the Soviet Navy that is in active pursuit - air, surface, and subs.

US/NATO fleets would be neutral.

The objective of the Red October is to get to US controlled waters and surface. Maybe along the way, the US/NATO side can come to realize what the player is trying to do and change its sides (via LUA scripting).

It would be a helluva challenge for a player to avoid such assets across the Atlantic.

_____________________________


(in reply to Excroat3)
Post #: 6
RE: Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/11/2016 2:12:16 AM   
Dannyp19

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: djoos5

How about you create a scenario where the player plays Ramius and the Red October.

The player would have one unit - the Red October.

Enemy ships would be the Soviet Navy that is in active pursuit - air, surface, and subs.

US/NATO fleets would be neutral.

The objective of the Red October is to get to US controlled waters and surface. Maybe along the way, the US/NATO side can come to realize what the player is trying to do and change its sides (via LUA scripting).

It would be a helluva challenge for a player to avoid such assets across the Atlantic.


...and what sub platform would the Red October be?
Is there a hypothetical Red October sub in the DB?

The posture change could be triggered by being in X area by a certain amount of time provided you haven't been contacted.

Interesting scenario idea!

(in reply to djoos5)
Post #: 7
RE: Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/11/2016 3:45:54 AM   
djoos5


Posts: 367
Joined: 10/25/2013
From: Ohio
Status: offline
I don't know of any hypothetical build for Red October. Here is a neat idea that could be played out - what if the defector was a US captain and crew and they are trying to deliver an Ohio or Virginia class to Russia? Could an advanced US sub evade the US fleet?

There are ships in the database for that scenario.

_____________________________


(in reply to Dannyp19)
Post #: 8
RE: Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/13/2016 6:29:01 AM   
magi

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: 2/1/2014
Status: offline
Yes.... by going around the world .... via the opposite direction.....

(in reply to djoos5)
Post #: 9
RE: Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/13/2016 9:35:07 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 6974
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel/Bulgaria
Status: offline
Hunt for Red October would work as ASW exercise, Red Banner Northern Fleet vs. lone Typhoon SSBN.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to magi)
Post #: 10
RE: Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/13/2016 12:29:17 PM   
Dysta


Posts: 1845
Joined: 8/8/2015
Status: offline
Tom Clancy's Arsenal DLC, anyone?

_____________________________


(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 11
RE: Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October - 10/23/2016 10:18:46 PM   
SheperdN7


Posts: 274
Joined: 2/23/2016
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada (Lives in Brandon, MB)
Status: offline
I believe there was 2 Alfa-class subs that were mentioned to be after Red October, if I remember correctly the VK Konovalov was the only one that actually had a chance of catching up. The other sub was just too far away at time of launch to have a chance but in this scenario it could be used as a late game reinforcement.

_____________________________

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve"- attributed to Isoroko Yamamoto

(in reply to Dysta)
Post #: 12
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations >> Mods and Scenarios >> Scenario Idea: The Battle For Red October Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.133