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RE: confusedesh - 11/8/2017 12:51:53 PM   
Red Lancer


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Can I suggest that you post your mod on the WitW forum? (It'll also help to keep this thread on topic.)

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Post #: 1411
RE: confusedesh - 11/10/2017 11:39:35 PM   
Searry

 

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Can I suggest editable AC loadouts from commander's report screen for WITE 2, would be nice for WITW too.

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Post #: 1412
RE: WitE 2 - 11/14/2017 2:51:59 PM   
MagicMissile


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Really looking forward to the day the game is ready. Is it Christmas 2018 yet

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Post #: 1413
RE: WitE 2 - 11/15/2017 4:49:07 PM   
RFalvo69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
A full Map would be even less manageable (at least if without overhaul&simplifications of mecanism&units numbers).
The campaign would take ages.
So there would really be few potential customers.

It could be an epic commercial failure and a waste of precious developer's time that could be used elsewhere.


You would be surprised by how many people would instead welcome such an opportunity.

We live in an era where wargame enthusiasts are "rarified": it is difficult to find someone who lives near enough (and has enough time) to play FtF. Even the sheer needs for space and the opportunity to leave the game set up for "when we go on next week" are becoming increasingly difficult to find for our generation of gamers. This is why many people do buy tabletop games only to play them via VASSAL or cyberboard (I'm playing OCS "Beyond the Rhine" this way right now).

OTOH, "gigantor" games never went out of fashion - actually, thanks to the computer, we can easily play WitP: AE, WitE/W and WiF over and over and over - even when a full game requires months; and on "multiple tables" too! (for those who have the time and the commitment).

Thus, I can easily see people who mastered WitW/E play both together as a single game. The developers could even take a leaf from WiF and allow games with 3 or 4 players (for example, one or two manage the Axis, one the Eastern front and one the Western front).

I still have to see a PC wargame (and many tabletop ones) whose dimension scared away gamers. Considering how many people here already own and have "mastered" WitE/W, I wouldn't be worried.

Actually, I bet that the secret wet dream of many wargamers is to have the whole ETO 1939-45 done with the WitW system

Edited for typos and clarity.

< Message edited by RFalvo69 -- 11/15/2017 4:52:20 PM >


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Post #: 1414
RE: WitE 2 - 11/16/2017 12:14:18 AM   
keitherson

 

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What is WiF?

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Post #: 1415
RE: confusedesh - 11/16/2017 1:54:39 AM   
wallas

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Confusedesh


Not even sure myself if I should change the style to a more realistic look but the way the map is constructed tends to lend itself to a stylized appearance and I tend to like that appearance.




I think it looks great much improved over vanilla but everyone has different tastes.

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Post #: 1416
RE: WitE 2 - 11/16/2017 1:55:52 AM   
thedoctorking

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: keitherson

What is WiF?

World in Flames. A very complex grand strategic simulation of the entire Second World War, with units as army/corps, some divisions, air corps (500 airframes or so), single capital ships and squadrons of subs. There is a complex economic/political simulation and a host of optional rules making it even more complex.

One of my favorite games.

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Post #: 1417
RE: confusedesh - 11/21/2017 11:05:16 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wallas


quote:

ORIGINAL: Confusedesh


Not even sure myself if I should change the style to a more realistic look but the way the map is constructed tends to lend itself to a stylized appearance and I tend to like that appearance.




I think it looks great much improved over vanilla but everyone has different tastes.


I think that WITE 2 each hex is a mosaic of individual objects? And it’s not a whole raster map .. thus I think ihex types (objects) that are blended together are being edited .. not good to compare the problem with WITE 1 ..

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Post #: 1418
RE: WitE 2 - 11/22/2017 12:52:41 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69


Actually, I bet that the secret wet dream of many wargamers is to have the whole ETO 1939-45 done with the WitW system




I admit it has been my wet dream. That is why I have such high hopes on this title becoming such a beast of total war in Europe. I would gladly contribute a kickstarter fund for such a completion.

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Post #: 1419
RE: WitE 2 - 12/19/2017 5:48:53 PM   
jacktimes2


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I noticed WITE2 is not on the announcement page for Matrix games scheduled for a 2018 release.
Hopefully it's just a cover-your-bases move, but I suppose development on a monster like this could easily run into 2019.

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Post #: 1420
RE: WitE 2 - 12/19/2017 8:35:20 PM   
sandman2575


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Yeah, given that this thread was started in 2015 and work (however preliminary) was already being done on the game at that time, I'd hope that we might see WitE2 sometime in 2018, even if only by Q3/Q4.

Not that I wish to underestimate the huge amount of work that WitE2 must require from the dev team. But it sure would be nice to get a clearer sense of where development stands and whether there's a chance WitE2 will release sometime in 2018...

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Post #: 1421
RE: WitE 2 - 12/19/2017 10:54:18 PM   
Joel Billings


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Here's where we're at. We have a working game that allows us to test the campaign and a few smaller scenarios we've created. The basics are in for most systems, but there are some major ones still being designed and implemented. Here's some of the major items left to be done:

1) Adding in functionality for air divisions, which is a level of player control between the individual squadrons/groups and the corps HQs. The intention of this system is to allow players to focus on more easily moving around air divisions and not having to micromanage exact placement of air units on specific airbases unless they wanted to. Once done, we need to develop the more automated ways to play the air game (like some of the tools we have for this in WitW, but with more functionality/flexibility than in WitW).
2) Interface face lift. We've got a number of new interface elements and we need to make the most of them while also give the interface a graphical facelift.
3. Campaign Victory conditions. We have an event editor that allows us to use events as part of the victory conditions for both small scenarios and campaigns. We have not yet decided exactly what we are going to do for Campaign victory conditions although we've kicked around a number of ideas.
4) Theater boxes and events. In the past few months we've made a lot of progress on the off-map theater boxes and events that go with them. We've added the Allied Strategic bombing events, tied to German air strength in Western Europe. We need to continue work on adding other off-map events and various tracks that go with them (Western Allied campaigns in North Africa, Italy and Western Europe, partisan activities in the Soviet Union, the Finnish front). We have many of these events happening now on a fixed schedule, but we've recently added the system to track German force values in the various TBs. We need to set requirements and the impact of being above or below the requirements on the events and balance this.
5) Navel system review. Just going to allow Soviet amphibious landings in the Black Sea, but need to make sure we've got the right naval transport capabilities in the various waterways for both sides.
6) Production system review and balancing.
7. Complete initial slate of scenarios.

So at the moment we can play a scenario like Road to Leningrad and it plays out pretty well. However, you have to play the WitW style air system with no AI help, and the naval transport capabilities are probably too good in the Baltic. We want the air game to be something that players can easily get into and increase their involvement with it as desired. We're recently added the city forts rule that allows players to stack more units into a fortress like Odessa or Sevastopol. This took some time but it was necessary and is having an impact on play.

I don't want to give a date for the game as it depends so much on how much time our various contributors are able to devote to the game over the next year. I do wish we were further along, and expect that we'll need a solid 6 months of testing (or more) from when we reach a solid game-play beta. We won't be there until we get items 1-6 nearly done.


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Post #: 1422
RE: WitE 2 - 12/19/2017 11:38:43 PM   
sandman2575


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
We want the air game to be something that players can easily get into and increase their involvement with it as desired.


I think you made huge strides in this direction with WitW, especially with the auto-create Air Directives system. Overall the air system of WitW is excellent, though continued streamlining and improvement for WitE2 will certainly be welcome.

Thanks for the detailed update -- much appreciated, and best of luck as you and your team continue to work on this hugely anticipated sequel (which I'll still keep fingers crossed for late 2018 release...)

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Post #: 1423
RE: WitE 2 - 12/20/2017 5:41:03 PM   
jacktimes2


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Thanks for the update!
I am simply salivating at the prospect of events.
I understand the need to streamline the air-war system. I love the complexity in WitW, but I can definitely see getting overwhelmed by it in the vastness that is the Eastern Front.

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Post #: 1424
RE: WitE 2 - 12/20/2017 7:28:58 PM   
thedoctorking

 

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Any chance of a semi-free setup option? The stereotyped German first move is a little dull by the tenth or fifteenth time you do it.

Maybe require German units to be set up in the same Army Group regions that they were historically, and require a certain percentage of Russian units to be set up within X hexes of the frontier. Kind of like the way the Barbarossa scenario in World in Flames does it.

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Post #: 1425
RE: WitE 2 - 12/21/2017 12:14:29 AM   
Wheat

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Any chance of a semi-free setup option? The stereotyped German first move is a little dull by the tenth or fifteenth time you do it.

Maybe require German units to be set up in the same Army Group regions that they were historically, and require a certain percentage of Russian units to be set up within X hexes of the frontier. Kind of like the way the Barbarossa scenario in World in Flames does it.


This is a great idea and I hope you consider it. And for another great idea (see my cleverness), I wish there was some way to modify morale adjustment, for achieving certain objectives, rather than the blanket "its 1942, so your morale goes down".

For example, if Germany had captured Moscow and Leningrad in 41, would their morale sink the same in 1942 as it did. Right now WITE has hard coded results REGARDLESS of how good or bad you are doing relative to history. Wish that could change in WITE2.

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Post #: 1426
RE: WitE 2 - 12/21/2017 7:08:25 AM   
No idea

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Any chance of a semi-free setup option? The stereotyped German first move is a little dull by the tenth or fifteenth time you do it.

Maybe require German units to be set up in the same Army Group regions that they were historically, and require a certain percentage of Russian units to be set up within X hexes of the frontier. Kind of like the way the Barbarossa scenario in World in Flames does it.


I completely agree making the first german turn for the 243th time gets too repetitive and boring (Pelton even had a "paper" about it, with every single movement, to make the perfect 1st turn). Something should be done about this. I dont know what, but something.

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Post #: 1427
RE: WitE 2 - 12/21/2017 12:00:01 PM   
Red Lancer


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Free setup: sounds easy but as I understand it is just too complicated to deliver with the current system as you are having to engineer something that precedes the current code start. It is one reason why the game has an editor. That said T1 in WitE2 has much more variation in reserve activations for defending Soviets, Baltic rail repair is random by hex and there are also combat prep points and combat delay so it's not so templated.




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Post #: 1428
RE: WitE 2 - 12/21/2017 8:39:53 PM   
Nix77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
Baltic rail repair is random by hex


This sounds interesting. Can you be more specific what this means (or if it's detailed somewhere earlier)? I'm expecting this could make approaching Leningrad a bit more difficult as it historically was.

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Post #: 1429
RE: WitE 2 - 12/21/2017 9:08:39 PM   
Red Lancer


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There are two factors that are impacting on the 'Road to Leningrad' and hopefully makes things more historic.

Rail damage - Rail hexes in Baltics will not have the rail damaged 70% of the time when they change hands during the first 3 turns of a June 41 game. If there is land combat in the hex the rails will always be damaged. This is different to the reduced repair cost you see in WitE.

Heavy Woods - Now each hex has a road value, heavy woods with average or poor roads are a significant impediment to motorized movement and supply. This creates manoeuvre corridors.

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Post #: 1430
RE: WitE 2 - 12/21/2017 9:48:30 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

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It would be nice to periodically see any screenshots of the WITE 2.
For example, per a month or every two weeks.
Not necessarily some new aspects of the game it can be anything.

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Post #: 1431
RE: WitE 2 - 1/7/2018 9:32:22 PM   
uw06670


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Thank you Red Lancer for all the recent updates. Glad that you guys put so much effort into "getting it right" look forward to Beta testing (i hope).

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RE: WitE 2 - 1/8/2018 1:58:08 PM   
thedoctorking

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

Free setup: sounds easy but as I understand it is just too complicated to deliver with the current system as you are having to engineer something that precedes the current code start. It is one reason why the game has an editor. That said T1 in WitE2 has much more variation in reserve activations for defending Soviets, Baltic rail repair is random by hex and there are also combat prep points and combat delay so it's not so templated.





IMHO it would be worth the coding time to make it at least an option. It would be a much more interesting game for the first few turns. It now feels like I'm doing one of those complicated 18th-century dances with each step choreographed for the first four turns or so.

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Post #: 1433
RE: WitE 2 - 1/8/2018 2:19:47 PM   
Stelteck

 

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The easier solution for me would be to create a campaign where it is the soviet that play the first turn.

There can be 2 alternative of such scenario :

- Start the week before the german attack, but most frontier soviet units are locked (and the soviet player can only move some reserves).
- Start the campaign the week AFTER the german attack. (Like the WITP AE scenario that start the day after pearl harbor). In this scenario, german opening would be the historical one, and the game start by soviet turn after the initial (and historical ge

Although i do admit i have no idea if it is easy to start a campaign by soviet turn. Is it possible in some scenario in WITE classic ? I have no idea.



< Message edited by Stelteck -- 1/8/2018 2:20:59 PM >

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Post #: 1434
RE: WitE 2 - 1/8/2018 2:28:01 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

The easier solution for me would be to create a campaign where it is the soviet that play the first turn.

There can be 2 alternative of such scenario :

- Start the week before the german attack, but most frontier soviet units are locked (and the soviet player can only move some reserves).
- Start the campaign the week AFTER the german attack. (Like the WITP AE scenario that start the day after pearl harbor). In this scenario, german opening would be the historical one, and the game start by soviet turn after the initial (and historical ge

Although i do admit i have no idea if it is easy to start a campaign by soviet turn. Is it possible in some scenario in WITE classic ? I have no idea.




Could I add a third - the AI does the first turn of Axis before handing on to the human versus human game. The AI does a good, and historical, first turn; thanks also to some scripting. And it does include some limited variation in the final result to keep it fresh.

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RE: WitE 2 - 1/8/2018 9:04:08 PM   
Red Lancer


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I appreciate all the suggestions but at the moment the priority is to deliver a game that plays from T1 with a standard setup.

Notwithstanding all the time and effort it takes to create yet another scenario that starts earlier or later I wonder whether such an approach simply moves the finessing of T1 from one side to the other by a week or so. Even if you had a free setup how long before someone posts the ultimate soviet T1 setup?

For T1 in any scenario we always script the AI. There are a few tweaks to ensure things don't get stymied but odd rolls but essentially it's a historic first move which brings us back to finessing the first player turn.

IMO the only real option is to make the finessing of T1 more uncertain (difficult?) by adding more randomness in response to the T1 moves every time the game plays so being presented with a perfect Axis T1 is not a foregone conclusion. I hope we have done that already.

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Post #: 1436
RE: WitE 2 - 1/8/2018 10:18:18 PM   
uw06670


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quote:

IMO the only real option is to make the finessing of T1 more uncertain (difficult?) by adding more randomness in response to the T1 moves every time the game plays so being presented with a perfect Axis T1 is not a foregone conclusion. I hope we have done that already.


Yes, more interesting/active responses to German incursion by "reserve" units (or some scripting) would be a great thing to see. In real war there were some legit counter attacks on day 1 or so, albeit of limited impact in the long run.

Glad to hear you are working on this.

Also, what about the air war on day 1? In the game you can get much higher aircraft kills than what happened in the war. So perhaps it needs more 'nerfing' to get closer to real life? I know WitW air rules are coming, but what will that mean for day 1?


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Post #: 1437
RE: WitE 2 - 1/9/2018 1:21:20 AM   
Wheat

 

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No one official or unofficial commented on my suggestion. Either everyone thinks it was totally dumb, or (my preference), everyone agrees it is totally awesome.

"I wish there was some way to modify morale adjustment, for achieving certain objectives, rather than the blanket "its 1942, so your morale goes down".

For example, if Germany had captured Moscow and Leningrad in 41, would their morale sink the same in 1942 as it did? Right now WITE has hard coded results REGARDLESS of how good or bad you are doing relative to history. Wish that could change in WITE2."

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Post #: 1438
RE: WitE 2 - 1/9/2018 1:53:17 AM   
thedoctorking

 

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I like the idea of a game that starts on June 30th.

As far as Wheat's suggestion is concerned, I think this is a good idea. Maybe achieving some territorial or loss inflicted objectives would increase national morale base. Don't want to have the reverse or you would end up with a slippery slope where once you started losing you would just lose worse and worse.

Maybe a national mobilization increase too where if you were doing much worse than historical your people would rally 'round the flag and fight harder. I see this a lot in WW1 games.

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Post #: 1439
RE: WitE 2 - 1/9/2018 3:21:38 AM   
uw06670


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quote:

"I wish there was some way to modify morale adjustment, for achieving certain objectives, rather than the blanket "its 1942, so your morale goes down".


+1

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