Communist Chinese forces in this game

[geofflambert]

I've wondered about this without knowing the facts for a long time. It was surprising to me how small the Communist forces were and when discussing the game with non-playing non-forumites about that I've always said something along the lines of 'it's probably reflected in the high garrison requirements throughout China'. Was I right?
One person who would know has been banished, unfortunately. Am I mistaken about what forces are controlled by Mao Zedong?

[crsutton]

Um, well more likely it is a reflection of both the lack of forces and the lack of will to do much fighting. Contrary to myth the Communist Chinese did very little actual fighting and what fighting they did do was more on the local partisan level. It is has been estimated that of all the soldiers killed in action vs the Japanese that 95% of them were Nationalist troops. There were a variety of reasons for this. The Nationalist Armies had just about subdued the Reds when the war with Japan broke out. They probably would have eliminated the Communist threat were it not for the Japanese attack. So, at the outbreak of the war the Red Chinese were very short of troops and virtually starved of supply. They got nothing from the US and oddly enough virtually nothing from the Soviets. Communist held territory had virtually no industrial base to speak of. The second main reason was political in that the Red Chinese recognized early on that the real threat to their long term existence were the Nationalists. Both the Nationalist government and the Reds came to the conclusion that the Japanese were going to eventually be defeated by the Western powers and the Reds more so than the Nationalist avoided major conflict with the Japanese. In the end the Reds really had much bigger concerns in reorganizing their own forces and conserving resources for the upcoming civil war. There is some evidence to support that the Communists and Japanese at times observed an informal truce between themselves, and even conducted some trade.

It is not that the Communists were not nationalistic. They did despise the Japanese and looked to see them out of China but their own position was very fragile and they looked to protect that above all. In the end, it proved to be a successful policy.

[geofflambert]

I see in your answer that my supposition was possibly correct, that the high garrison levels may be attributable to the Communists (in part), as that was the best they could do. The Pripyat is a hell hole due to partisan activity in WWII. I saw something today I didn't know, Deutschland was backing the Chinese (financially) against the Japanese until sometime in '41.

By the way, what happened to your Willie and Joe avatar? Bring it back. Or rotate different Willie and Joe avatars. Let's have a vote on that right now. All in favor say aye. AYE All opposed. (whimper) The ayes have it.

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Deutschland was backing the Chinese (financially) against the Japanese until sometime in '41.

More than that -- they had German advisors assisting Chiang's men until sometime in '38 or '39 when they were pulled back home after Japanese protests. Later, when US advisors appeared and gave their recommendations, the Chinese officers' response was "That's exactly what the Germans told us to do!" So you can see how effective it was. [;)]

[crsutton]

Two good recent books that present a different picture of China during the war. I recommend them both if you are interested in this theater at all.

http://www.amazon.com/Generalissimo-Chi ... g+kai+shek

http://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Ally-Ch ... otten+ally

[crsutton]

My favorite

[fcharton]

The game begins in 1941, so you get the Chinese 1941 OOB. The chinese civil war (CCP vs KMT) resumed in 1946, and it is not portrayed in AE (if the war had lasted longer, so would the effective ceasefire between chinese factions).

So, in late 1941, the only military units that can be considered "red" are the one you get in the game : in and around Yenan. There were guerillas, which are represented as garrison requirements. The other troops, labelled "KMT" are a mixture of real KMT troops, and various warlord armies, whose allegiance varied throughout the war. Actually, some of the unis labelled (correctly) as collaborator in the game, ended up as KMT or CCP after the war, and you get quite a few PLA heroes in your leader list, leading KMT units.

Francois

[SigUp]

Also a good recent book on the Sino-Japanese War: The Battle for China. Contains essays on the war by various historians from Japan, China and the West.

As for the red units in the game, these are the units under the 18th Group Army with the main component being the three divisions of the 8th Route Army in Yen'an.