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PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply

 
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PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 3:54:12 PM   
sandman2575


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I have a group of 6 PBY-5s stationed at French Frigate Shoals (still a dot hex; it's March '42). There is 0 supply here and no LCUs. There are two AVs disbanded in port, both loaded with supply.

The group is set to Nav Search 50 / distance 10, and to all appearances, these flights are taking place. The pilots' mission count goes up daily. They gain periodic experience.

Where is the supply coming from to 'fuel' these flights? I initially thought perhaps they would draw supply from the disbanded AVs, although my understanding is that AVs only use supply for repair. But the AVs are still loaded with full supply -- nothing has been used.
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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 4:12:48 PM   
geofflambert


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AVs will fuel float planes, that's part of what they're for. Don't know why you're not showing supply used.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 8/25/2015 5:13:28 PM >

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 4:15:30 PM   
geofflambert


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can you give us a screen shot of one of the AVs, make that both of them.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 4:21:28 PM   
witpqs


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IIRC there was a bug where patrol type planes would use 0 supply in some case, and it was fixed in a patch some time ago. Are you playing the most recent release?

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 4:22:54 PM   
dr.hal


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I don't believe supplies are used, much like aviation gas is not monitored on CVs. I've kept search planes running with no supplies in the AV many times. This might impact the aircraft's ability to conduct attacks, but not simply search missions. But I've not tested for the attack concept verses supply. This is one of those details that was not incorporated into the game as far as I can see.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 4:23:01 PM   
sandman2575


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Thanks for the reply -- I'll be happy to post a screenie but it will be later today, when home from the office and kiddos are asleep (aka the best time of my day )

EDIT -- to reply to other posts that came in while i was writing this --
Yes, I'm definitely patched up to the latest version.
@dr.hal - this sure seems to be what's going on. hard to tell if this is a bug or, like you say, just something that wasn't incorporated into the game --

< Message edited by sandman2575 -- 8/25/2015 5:26:14 PM >

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 4:34:41 PM   
Lokasenna


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I've only had them use supply when running non-search missions. If even then...

Catalinas with an AVD, AVP, or AV will happily fly naval search until the cows come home at a dot base with 0 supply.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 4:51:21 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I've only had them use supply when running non-search missions. If even then...

Catalinas with an AVD, AVP, or AV will happily fly naval search until the cows come home at a dot base with 0 supply.



Me, too.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 4:54:22 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I don't believe supplies are used, much like aviation gas is not monitored on CVs. I've kept search planes running with no supplies in the AV many times. This might impact the aircraft's ability to conduct attacks, but not simply search missions. But I've not tested for the attack concept verses supply. This is one of those details that was not incorporated into the game as far as I can see.


I think witpqs is right. It's handled on CVs by number of sorties. You don't have to bomb or torpedo anything to use those up, I believe.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 4:56:21 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman2575

Thanks for the reply -- I'll be happy to post a screenie but it will be later today, when home from the office and kiddos are asleep (aka the best time of my day )

EDIT -- to reply to other posts that came in while i was writing this --
Yes, I'm definitely patched up to the latest version.
@dr.hal - this sure seems to be what's going on. hard to tell if this is a bug or, like you say, just something that wasn't incorporated into the game --


You're not supposed to work at the office! Just pretend you are and play WitPAE.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 4:58:30 PM   
geofflambert


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Sounds like a bug then. Should be fixable. Anybody run a play test with land based search?

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 4:59:03 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I don't believe supplies are used, much like aviation gas is not monitored on CVs. I've kept search planes running with no supplies in the AV many times. This might impact the aircraft's ability to conduct attacks, but not simply search missions. But I've not tested for the attack concept verses supply. This is one of those details that was not incorporated into the game as far as I can see.


I think witpqs is right. It's handled on CVs by number of sorties. You don't have to bomb or torpedo anything to use those up, I believe.


I think you do have to use bombs and offensive escort missions (maybe not on those) to use sorties up.

Try it sometime - sail your carriers around the ocean running CAP. They won't burn up any sorties.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 5:28:48 PM   
geofflambert


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Search and ASW?

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 5:41:17 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Search and ASW?


No idea on those. I suspect search doesn't burn it (unless the plane "attacks" something), and really don't even have a suspicion/hunch about ASW other than that I think it probably behaves like search.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 6:28:32 PM   
geofflambert


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Here is the relevant section of the manual. The red underlined sentence appears to say otherwise, as well as other sentences. However, I'm guessing that the presence of FPs does not cause the base requirement to be more than zero if no LCUs are present. So the other relevant parts about min base supply are moot as 1/2 x 0 = 0, 1 x 0 = 0, and 2 x 0 = 0. If you removed the AVs and placed an aviation support engineer LCU there with base supply = 0, I think the planes would not fly whether they be FPs or not. But those 1/3 SP/turn/plane should come off of those AVs. I wonder if that can be fixed.




Attachment (1)

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 6:32:30 PM   
geofflambert


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Maybe making every base have a requirement of no less than 1 supply point would fix some of that. Not that that's very important because if you have no support LCU present and no supply either, the planes will break down pretty quick anyway.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 8/25/2015 7:34:06 PM >

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/25/2015 6:36:20 PM   
geofflambert


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I bet you that no supplies are consumed on troop ships packed with troops while in transit and that might be a part of the engine involved here, and may not be fixable. edit: So as not to confuse, I'm suggesting that in the matter of supply use the relationship between a troop ship, the supplies carried, and the troops loaded might be the same as the AV/supply/FPs relationship.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 8/25/2015 7:39:03 PM >

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/26/2015 1:08:00 AM   
Lokasenna


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I've only ever noticed the "we fly for free and don't consume any supplies ever!" behavior on float/sea planes operating by use of a tender.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/26/2015 4:58:14 AM   
Feltan


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I reported this anomaly many moons ago. It is still happening in my games.

It is one of those things that probably won't get fixed and we'll have to live with it.

Regards,
Feltan

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/26/2015 11:27:31 AM   
HansBolter


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Float planes fly all kinds of missions from BBs, CAs, CSs and even some AVs with a "capacity" without any expenditure of supplies!

Implementing a mechanism that would require supply expenditure for search missions would appear to be extremely complicated.

I suspect Feltan is correct and that it is something that will likely never be addressed.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/26/2015 12:07:55 PM   
Termite2

 

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The game is borked, no oceangoing tugs pushing fuel barges across the pacific.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/26/2015 2:22:16 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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Depends on the mod, somne have tugs and fuel barges.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/26/2015 3:47:59 PM   
pontiouspilot


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My boys fly for free, at least for search missions. I have always thought it odd but gotta like air miles when you have them.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/26/2015 7:55:41 PM   
crsutton


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I would not give it another thought. AVs do allow the use of seaplanes at level 0 ports. Frankly, I have never looked to see if they are using supply or not. Should it matter? You know what Ann Landers used to say? "Don't sweat the small stuff."

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/26/2015 9:50:25 PM   
Encircled


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JFB#1 - "Hey, you see those pesky AFBs can fly search from AVD and AVP without using supply?

JFB#2 - "The game is borked, we need some more house rules"

JFB#1 - "I bet we can do it too, with all our resized FP sqds and we need the supply much more than the Allies"

JFB#2 - "BANNNNNNNNNNNNZZZZZZZZAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIII"



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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/26/2015 9:50:58 PM   
Encircled


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Please bear in mind that I'm a JFB!

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/26/2015 10:27:34 PM   
geofflambert


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Encircled, is that Scotland in your signature?

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/27/2015 1:03:21 PM   
Encircled


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Lancaster in England.



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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/27/2015 2:24:50 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termite2

The game is borked


Of course it is! Been that way since before it was released! So says Knavey, at least.

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RE: PBYs operating at dot hexes with 0 supply - 8/27/2015 3:35:51 PM   
nashvillen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

JFB#1 - "Hey, you see those pesky AFBs can fly search from AVD and AVP without using supply?

JFB#2 - "The game is borked, we need some more house rules"

JFB#1 - "I bet we can do it too, with all our resized FP sqds and we need the supply much more than the Allies"

JFB#2 - "BANNNNNNNNNNNNZZZZZZZZAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIII"



Shhhhh....

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