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Port tonnage restrictions - 8/24/2015 11:26:28 AM   
Khanti

 

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As for now AE have two restrictions to operate ships from ports: biggest ship and overall TF tonnage.
I understand and support "biggest ship" issue, as it's obvious one need big harbour to serve big ship.

But for overall TF restriction in practice looks like this:

Harbour: Takao size 4 (48.000 all / 24.000 biggest)
IJN TF has 52.156 tons = "Cannot Dock, Port Size". TF cannot refuel from port if not docked, so ...

- create new TF
- move there some ships from original TF
- dock, refuel one of them, undock
- dock another TF, refuel, undock
- repeat
- transfer ships from new TFs to original one
- set sails from harbour

Why so many clicks? Who need them anyway?
I understand why somebody tried to put that restrictions in game ("realism") but, hey, it's just a game.
If I can refuel all my 30 ships TF anyway with tons of clicks, why not "keep it simple", as it was in WitP.

So the suggestion is: please consider removing overall TF restriction.


This harbour could jus looks like this: Takao (24.0000 biggest ship service).


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RE: Port tonnage restrictions - 8/24/2015 12:37:16 PM   
Alfred

 

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There is zero chance of this request being granted.  The devs who coded the naval components consider the stevedoring aspects to be a fundamental design element.  In developing the DaBabes family they have made it even more grainy with the introduction of stevedores.

1.  Even a TF of 52,156 tons can be refuelled at Takao without docking.  It is just done much more slowly.

2.  It is your mistake to send such a large sized task force to Takao.

3.  There are several things you can do to improve your stevedoring at Takao.  Build the port up and get more naval support are two of them.  Again your responsibility to organise yourself properly.

4.  The port limits and the overall logistic changes are part of the additional AE features introduced specifically to reduce the overall pace of operations.  No one on the AE development team, and probably 95%+ of AE players are in favour of retaining the overall faster pace of operations of classical AE.

Alfred

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RE: Port tonnage restrictions - 8/24/2015 6:39:34 PM   
kbfchicago


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+1 to what Alfred has noted.

Let me also provide some additional context as to my perspective on where TF total size limits (as well as individual ship limits & support capabilities) impact play and are important factors.

- You can have TF's automatically refuel "enroute" using way points. If you don't pick a port with enough total capacity (or enough support) it will impact how long they must linger. (NOTE: I have not tested this, this is just my observation)

- As you noted, you can manually dock/undock and load/fuel, mixing and matching TFs and TF composition to your hearts content or your finger get's exhaused from clicking. So... the TF size is the "easy" limit, you must put some work in to exceed that ready capacity...that work = clicks.

- Limitations are not just TF size but amount of support squads. You will also hit a point you get a "not enough operational capacity" msg (actual msg not reflected, don't recall exact phrase used).

- Both the size and support limits are important and likely impact players like myself who game with 2 day turn cycles more vs. players using a 1 day cycle. With a two (or three) day cycle players have less oportunity to directly influence actions.

(Shout out for 2 day cycles; moves time along much faster, forces you to plan your tactical use of the game - i.e. more challenging, also provides an additional edge to the AI if your an AI player as AI recalcuates every day vs. your ability to adjust every 2 days making your AI experience more challenging as well!)

Hope this context helps with why all three (support, TF, and individual ship) limits are important and all three should be retained.

Kevin




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Post #: 3
RE: Port tonnage restrictions - 8/24/2015 7:42:36 PM   
geofflambert


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If you run into the operational capacity limit of the port you can refuel in place instead of refuel in port, if you have the ops points left. Anyway just set sail with your recombined TF and refuel at sea (to ration the supply equally, or just wait til it happens automatically) and then go to another port as needed. If you have a lot of xAKs in port or nearby you can rendezvous s'il vous plait and suck out their fuel.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 8/24/2015 8:45:41 PM >

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RE: Port tonnage restrictions - 8/24/2015 7:54:52 PM   
geofflambert


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By the way "rendezvous s'il vous plait" is what RSVP means at Ashley Madison.

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RE: Port tonnage restrictions - 8/24/2015 8:08:10 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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Takao max 48k, TF 52k > undock all TFs at Takao, right-click on the biggest ship in the 52k-TF and detach it to harbor, repeat if necessary until TF size is below 48k, dock, fuel, leave. Just a few clicks.

Btw, IMO port sizes / tonnage restrictions are still too generous at many planes in the game.

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RE: Port tonnage restrictions - 8/24/2015 8:50:46 PM   
geofflambert


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Oh yeah? Try refueling at Nadzab, port capacity (0/1).

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RE: Port tonnage restrictions - 8/24/2015 8:59:28 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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There shouldn't even be a port at Nadzab.

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RE: Port tonnage restrictions - 8/24/2015 9:37:49 PM   
rustysi


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You could just disband a loaded tanker in the port and it'll be used like a floating gas station. IOW just pull up any sized TF and when you request a refuel it'll refuel from the tanker. The tanker can then refuel from the port, of course limited by op points and port refueling capability. I do this early in the game and sometimes use several AO's/tankers to get the job done. Later these tankers are there to start carting fuel back to the HI as they're pretty close to the fuel production centers.

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Post #: 9
RE: Port tonnage restrictions - 8/24/2015 10:16:04 PM   
spence

 

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quote:

You could just disband a loaded tanker in the port and it'll be used like a floating gas station. IOW just pull up any sized TF and when you request a refuel it'll refuel from the tanker. The tanker can then refuel from the port, of course limited by op points and port refueling capability. I do this early in the game and sometimes use several AO's/tankers to get the job done.


Incidentally the real situation at Truk: a great harbor but pathetically developed. Had its repair capabilities practcally overwhelmed by a damaged submarine and hardly enough refueling ability for anything bigger than a sampan. IRL Japan did park a lot of loaded tankers in the port so that their fleet could refuel for operations in the Solomons.

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Post #: 10
RE: Port tonnage restrictions - 8/25/2015 2:22:05 AM   
wdolson

 

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Truk was a lot like Ulithi. There was a little more land there, but not much. The Japanese did at Truk what the US did at Ulithi on a bigger scale. Base a bunch of support ships there and have floating ship support facilities.

Bill

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Post #: 11
RE: Port tonnage restrictions - 8/25/2015 2:33:53 AM   
geofflambert


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Does everyone know what Ockham's razor is? The Earl of Ockham postulated that the simplest explanation for a phenomenon was also the most likely explanation. In fiction, Sherlock Holmes applied this postulate on a regular basis. Monsieur Olson's theorem is that the most boring explanation is likely the nearest to the truth. I think both Ockham and Olson are nearly correct.

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