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Life without 5th FBD

 
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Life without 5th FBD - 8/24/2015 9:17:35 AM   
MishaTX


Posts: 12
Joined: 8/13/2015
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So, having stared at the screen for days now, counting hexes and MPs, planning advances to coincide with the forwards march of FBDs, I decided to throw it out there (after having run a search to see if the question had already been answered):

How do y'all use the 4 FBDs left to us, and what routes, roughly, do you make them follow?

I keep finding myself one FBD short all of a sudden. OK, so I know it still comes in, only not until May of '42 when it's no longer needed. Or at least not as badly needed.

The best I can come up with is:

Tilsit-Taurage-Dünaburg-Pskov-Leningrad

Kaunas-Minsk-Smolensk-Vyazma

Brest Litovsk-Baranovichi-Bobruisk-Gomel

Chelm-Kovel-Rovno-Shepetovka-Smela-Krivoi Rog

But that still leaves a big hole in the far South along the Black Sea.

< Message edited by MishaTX -- 8/24/2015 10:25:54 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Life without 5th FBD - 8/24/2015 1:05:47 PM   
VigaBrand

 

Posts: 102
Joined: 12/19/2014
From: Germany
Status: online
Hi,
here you can see the start from the FBD in the South. Rail the one from the Lvov area in the first turn to the Border and than you can start the repair in T2 and you will be faster.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to MishaTX)
Post #: 2
RE: Life without 5th FBD - 8/24/2015 1:36:02 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1536
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
My 'trick' is to move a couple FBDs early in the game.

The furthest north FBD moves from Kretinga (1 hex NE of Memel) to Siauliei (9 hexes east). That is easier for me given the way my movement/combats go.

By the same token, the FBD west of Kaunas is going to move TO Siauliei starting on Turn 2. From Slaulei, one FBD goes toward Riga-Cesis-Valmera-Valga-Pskov

On Turn 2, the other FBD at Siauliei goes this route:
Siauliei-Radviliskis (1 hex SE)-Daugapils-Polotsk-Vitebsk

You will find this route faster, and there is a very good reason not to go to Minsk at all: It is too far away from the Land Bridge to do much good supplying your troops. By coming from the Northwest, you get to use the Baltic cost longer. By piggy-backing on the other FBD, the turn you spent moving it north is paid for without much cost.

In the south, I use the FBD west of Brest-Litovks ONLY for two turns. Just as the FBD west of Kaunas, if you take a route along the northern edge of the Pripyet marshes, you're still doing a terrible job of supplying Army Group Center, and you're taking much longer to get to the Dnieper there. Since you re-prioritized the Kaunas FBD, the Brest Litovks one can also move (but it has to wait until Turn 3 anyway for Hungary to get into the action).

So on Turn 3, I start moving it. It may not be able to move through Hungary, it may. By Turn 4, you want it joining the 11th Army FBD in working a path from Romania to Vinnitsa. But at Vinnitsa itself, once the rail network is there, I splet these two. One heads toward Cherkassy. One heads toward Kiev.

In the South, you're just going to have to suck it up because it takes longer.
I like to go to Cherkassy-D-town-Stalino. By the time you get to Stalino, you are on your own with Rail. Fill your needs.

The one bound for Kiev I send specifically because it is the shortest way to Kursk. By Winter, Kursk is in the center of the map. You can get to Kursk in enough time that you can build the rail north toward Tula (which will help army group center) or you can head south toward Kharkov. Depending on what your other two FBDs are doing north and south of Tula/Kharkov, you can link up the networks so that you have two avenues of support around Kursk.

Sometimes the fastest way requires you to sacrifice a turn of using the FBDs.

One last note: People forget the importance of the line from Vinnitsa to Lvov. You need to let automated FBDs fill in that line (I go so far as to use the RHG command HQs loaded with 5 rail construction battalions to help fill in important rear areas over time). Try to ensure this gets completed. It saves time for Germany to move reinforcements.

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Clementia
Aeqvitas

(in reply to VigaBrand)
Post #: 3
RE: Life without 5th FBD - 8/24/2015 6:06:23 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 7974
Joined: 4/9/2006
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FBD-1 rails to Ungeny on the Romanian Border and repairs to Beltsy to Kotovsk to D-Town to Stalino to Rostov.

FBD-3 rails to 47,46 and repairs the first hex going to Riga, FBD-4 then does more hexes towards Riga.
Turn 2 they both RR towards Riga. Turn 3+ FBD-4 RR’s to Poskv and turns south at DNO to link up with FBD-3 line headed for Tula. After they link up FBD-3 heads for Tula and FBD-4 heads for Orel to link up with FBD-2

FBD-3 turn 3 heads for Daugavpils starting from the swamp hex 54,42. From there go to Vitebsk and on to Tula.

FBD-2 RR’s to Kaunas to Vilnius. Then head to link up with FBD-3 at Daugavpils and help RR to Vitebsk. Once at Vitebsk RR north and link up with FBD-4. Once linked up rail FBD-2 to D-Town and RR to Kursk to Orel to link up with FBD-4.

Why this way?

It’s the shortest to North/Center/South and it makes sure AGN/AGC can not be cut by partisans because both lines are looped together 2 times and come winter AGS is looped with AGC also. So its next to impossible to have rail lines cut even during blizzard.

Also I put 12 construction units in AGS/OKH/AGC and move 1 to Gomel, 1 to Keiv and one to Nikolaev. This will speed up AI RR. The Romanian HQ can also be used. By winter even the south will have several loops.


_____________________________

WitE 29 - 4 - 8
Ended in:
1941- 21-0-1
1942- 7-0-2
1943- 1-2-4
1944- 0-1-1
1945- 0-1-0

GHC WitW-- 14 - 1 - 0


(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 4
RE: Life without 5th FBD - 8/24/2015 8:24:14 PM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 584
Joined: 12/20/2013
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Do you get more than 6 rail hexes (Baltic), 4 otherwise, repaired per turn, per rail line, in this manner?

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 5
RE: Life without 5th FBD - 8/25/2015 1:35:08 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 7974
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

Do you get more than 6 rail hexes (Baltic), 4 otherwise, repaired per turn, per rail line, in this manner?


You can get 7 some times as things don't work as designed and can not heheheh very old issue with RR that can not be fixed as it simply moves from one cross roads to the next/ before morveals time



< Message edited by Pelton -- 8/25/2015 2:39:06 AM >


_____________________________

WitE 29 - 4 - 8
Ended in:
1941- 21-0-1
1942- 7-0-2
1943- 1-2-4
1944- 0-1-1
1945- 0-1-0

GHC WitW-- 14 - 1 - 0


(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 6
RE: Life without 5th FBD - 8/25/2015 5:19:16 AM   
MishaTX


Posts: 12
Joined: 8/13/2015
Status: offline
Wow. That's some excellent advice from some of the best WitE players around! Thanks!

I guess my "problem" has mainly been one of being afraid to NOT use an FBD for even a single solitary second, failing to see that a turn spent moving it to a GOOD position is more than made up for later, compared to forcing it to repair where it happens to start the campaign. 10 rail hexes where you need them later on is still better than 30 where you DON'T. Much like shooting, really. One bullet in your target's shoulder is still far better than ten in the wall behind him.

Thanks to all of you for enlightening me on this. This game is so huge (and I love it for it) and keeping track of it all is going to take a bit of learning. And it will be great fun doing so. But getting your supply lines at least started out right as the German is vital or it's game over before you even have a chance to realize you've lost.

If I'm understanding you right, Pelton, (I've been cross-referencing between the forum and the game map while reading this thread), you're basically focusing 3 out of the 4 FBDs in the North/North Center and then leaving the fourth to clear up a main line in the South, right? That makes sense, seeing as how the main effort is likely to be in that area and how, once those three get closer to Moscow, will be able to spread out in any direction they like, thanks to the layout of the Soviet rail system. And I like the piggy-backing system to speed up the progress of your main line(s). I wasn't sure if it would work due to the hex limitations on how far you can be from an already repaired line (previous turn) and still be able to repair another.

Also, thanks for the hint on how to use the "random" RR done by the Construction Btns. I never quite could figure out what to use the AG HQs and OKH for, now I finally have a use for them.

Vigabrand: Just want to make sure that your picture is a suggestion of two alternative starting points for the B-L FBD. Or are you suggesting railing two FBDs to Romania?

Heliodorus: Thanks also for another good use for the B-L FBD. Not to mention the Lvov one. You send the Lvov one to Romania as well, right? That one was giving me a headache since it's pretty useless where it's at. Moving it towards Lvov, although an important and conveniently direct line to where you want to be later, requires you to pretty much give up creating a pocket in that area, which, to me, would be inexcusable. You send the B-L one to Romania as well? Also, by "using the B-L FBD for only two turns", what do you use it for? Where does it repair, if anywhere, before moving to Romania?

Once again, thanks so much for the advice! This forum is every bit as awesome as the game.

On a side note (wholly unrelated): That Pioneer Btn with the SEC in AGN... Seriously? Is there any reason at all to not immediately transfer that one to where it might do some good? Such as with an actual COMBAT unit? What was the OKH thinking?

< Message edited by MishaTX -- 8/25/2015 6:20:28 AM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 7
RE: Life without 5th FBD - 8/25/2015 6:14:31 AM   
VigaBrand

 

Posts: 102
Joined: 12/19/2014
From: Germany
Status: online
Hi,
it is two options, but as Pelton sad, the one in the South is better for a fast rush to D-Town. You need this rush, to catch some industry there.


_____________________________


(in reply to MishaTX)
Post #: 8
RE: Life without 5th FBD - 8/27/2015 5:19:13 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 7974
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Also, thanks for the hint on how to use the "random" RR done by the Construction Btns. I never quite could figure out what to use the AG HQs and OKH for, now I finally have a use for them.

You can use the HQs to basicly pull the RR in the direction you want.

_____________________________

WitE 29 - 4 - 8
Ended in:
1941- 21-0-1
1942- 7-0-2
1943- 1-2-4
1944- 0-1-1
1945- 0-1-0

GHC WitW-- 14 - 1 - 0


(in reply to VigaBrand)
Post #: 9
RE: Life without 5th FBD - 8/28/2015 2:26:57 AM   
folgra

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/26/2015
Status: offline
Kind of weird having OKH in the middle of Russia.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 10
RE: Life without 5th FBD - 8/28/2015 4:09:13 AM   
MishaTX


Posts: 12
Joined: 8/13/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Also, thanks for the hint on how to use the "random" RR done by the Construction Btns. I never quite could figure out what to use the AG HQs and OKH for, now I finally have a use for them.

You can use the HQs to basicly pull the RR in the direction you want.

quote:

You can use the HQs to basicly pull the RR in the direction you want


Another useful tip. Again, I generally used them as way behind the lines depots for reinforcements until I could march them up to a corps HQ. so many details and so much depth to this game as you learn. Now not only do I have something to use them for and a reason to move them forward, it's a reason that makes logical and historical sense.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 11
RE: Life without 5th FBD - 8/28/2015 4:32:57 AM   
MishaTX


Posts: 12
Joined: 8/13/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: folgra

Kind of weird having OKH in the middle of Russia.


You can use OKC up there instead. To me it still gives me a logical reason to move it at all.

Saying what I've already said elsewhere: what I really love about this masterpiece of a game is that you can jump right into it and start moving divisions while achieving historical results (my favorite example is that I, with just the knowledge of how C&C and supply works from real life, could jump right in and duplicate v. Manstein's advance to Dvinsk, something that other otherwise fantastic east front games won't allow for "balance" reasons). You'll then get clobbered by a human opponent if he understands the game better than you, but you can DO it.

Take Unity of Command, a GREAT beer and pretzels game with a lot of fun and challenge that I love, but you can't. You simply don't have the MPs for it.

In WitE you can just go for it and have fun being the best German OKH you can be and enjoy beating the Soviets senseless in the early game, only to find yourself at a distinct disadvantage later on because you missed the fine print. And then you learn from that and, thanks to this excellent forum and the wealth of additional tools available, learn where you effed up so you're ready for the next game.

But you will still have fun in your first attempt. No "I'll never get this" barrier.

For a game with this kind of depth, that's pretty amazing, if you ask me.

(in reply to folgra)
Post #: 12
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