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Modern game for a bit of research - 3/19/2003 11:10:38 PM   
Ian_B

 

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I'm looking for a game to assess for a university project. It needs to be able to have modern equipment in it or have it added.

I have looked at Steel Panthers III, but it seems to be a bit old. Close Combat would seem to be a good alternative, but it is not out until the autumn this year and I have to start the project in 3 weeks time, finishing in August.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Ian B.
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- 3/20/2003 12:20:15 AM   
Jim1954

 

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You might consider SPMBT over at the wargamer.

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- 3/20/2003 12:51:45 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Ian what is you are hoping to assess?

If all you want to do is look at data, then why use a game?

Jim Dunnigans books are a better source if raw data comparisons are what you are looking for.

But for equipment you can go with SPMBT or if you want to scale up, check out The Operational Art of War series from Talonsoft.

The data though, will really just be in game data terms and not of the same use as text book data.

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- 3/20/2003 12:55:19 AM   
Jim1954

 

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Les,

While perusing the Wargamer I couldn't help but notice your new status as a forum mod. Congrats and good luck. At least that topic will have less room for arguementative confrontation which seems to really have become prevalent nowadays.

:D

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- 3/20/2003 1:14:36 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Yes I was approached by Shaun following commenting on how previous to Wargamers nasty hacking incident, I had been asked if I had any interest in a models intent sub forum. I was asked if I would be interested in being the resident in house face to manage it.

So I brought it up again in the clear and Shaun I guess liked the idea enough.

It looks like we have a few interested parties.

Had to give up my nifty custom avatar for an official office badge though heheh.

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- 3/20/2003 1:18:18 AM   
Jim1954

 

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I'm sure you will do a creditable job. Always had a thing for building models, but not cars. Couldn't seem to get interested unless it had guns on it. lol

:)

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- 3/20/2003 7:30:46 PM   
Ian_B

 

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Jim1954 - Thanks for the tip. I'll look it up.

Les the Sarge 9-1, I'm looking at games as I want to see if they have any training value in the Army. Yes, before you ask, I am in the Army, so I have some idea what I am talking about.

I have experience with some of the software we use in the military, but much of it is old, slow, and visually unappealing. (The latter is becoming more important). Also, the development time for the software is huge, along with the cost of producing bespoke software for our use.

The aim of the project is therefore to look at mass produced games software and see if any of them have any training value and if so how much?

Ian B.

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- 3/20/2003 9:35:06 PM   
AlBW

 

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In addition to SPMBT (which is very good & FREE!) I would add the following modern-era games which you might be interested in.

Decisive Action - HPS
Armored Task Force & Brigade Commander - Shrapnel
TACOPS4 - Battlefront

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- 3/20/2003 11:17:11 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Hmm that eliminates the whole process then.

Dump all contenders and selected TacOps 4 at Battlefront.

All the others will be distractingly "fun" and detract from being a good training tool.

TacOps4 has graphics that convey credible and serious. It doesn't look "fun" as much as it looks "real".

The best feature of the design though, is it appears to reward thinking.

It is your man. The rest are more game and less tool easily. And I say that even against Steel Panthers my obvious computer game of choice.

If you want some counter interests though, see if you can ferret out a copy of the older board games of Tac Air or any of the Assault System. I still have copies myself incidentally. As games, they are dated of course, as systems though, they have a lot to offer about the modern battlefield.

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- 3/21/2003 12:43:25 AM   
AlBW

 

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Ian - For reviews of the games I listed check out [url]www.wargamer.com[/url] . If you don't pay attention to reviews, they at least will give you some of the specifics about those games; scale, timeframe, system requirements, etc.

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- 3/21/2003 5:40:30 PM   
Ian_B

 

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Thanks for those Al, I'll have a shufti.

Les, you are spot on with TACOPS, but I already have a copy of it from the US military.

My aim is to probably look at how close the gaming community has come to our bespoke versions. I have JANUS, WARFIGHTER, and others that are purely designed for us. TACOPS is in the middle, in being a game that has been edited for US mil useage. From your suggestions I am going to look at SPMBT and also Close Combat may be a contender.

Ian B.

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- 3/21/2003 6:59:38 PM   
Mac_MatrixForum


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Are you limiting yourself to certain types of games? Some kind of strategy games? You know Steel Beasts? Doesn't the US army use Operation Flashpoint? You could potentially use about any game, if it is suitably modifiable, or there are some extra elements brought by an instructor / game master.

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- 3/22/2003 4:18:39 AM   
brent_2

 

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Apparently the US Marines are already using a second generation Operation Flashpoint called VBS1 for training...

http://www.virtualbattlefieldsystems.com/

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- 3/22/2003 4:22:18 AM   
brent_2

 

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Ian - already having the non-release version of TACOPS - it may be of interest to see how the two versions differ. Although the easiest way to determine that would probably be to contact the developer directly.

Also take a look at Armored Task Force / Brigade Combat Team

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- 3/25/2003 5:47:28 PM   
Ian_B

 

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Yes the US marines do use an edited Flashpoint game for training. I had a play with it in the US at the ITSEC conference. One of my colleagues is looking at this for his project, so I expect to have another go at it. Needless to say that it is not perfect.

After your suggestions of games, I have been following up and looking at them. My University is going to buy some for me (yes really) and I am probably going to look at the differences between bespoke software and games software to see how close they are (are the weapons realistic, does using tactics make any difference, and so on.) Once I've done this, I'll have a look and see if games have any training value for us.

Ian B.

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