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RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 1:12:55 PM   
ncc1701e


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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick
WOW. I certainly hope the UI update to TOAW IV looks better than anything we have seen in this thread.


Well, me too, but almost anything would be better than the current UI. If you have specific suggestions, please make them now, while there might still be a chance of them being implemented. Most of the screenshots have been from games at least 15 years old, so I'm sure there is rather massive room for improvement.


Agree, don't look at the graphics. It is just the principle of the tree that I found interesting to display the OOB and for easy navigation between units.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 91
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 1:18:02 PM   
sPzAbt653


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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick
WOW. I certainly hope the UI update to TOAW IV looks better than anything we have seen in this thread.


Well, me too, but almost anything would be better than the current UI. If you have specific suggestions, please make them now, while there might still be a chance of them being implemented. Most of the screenshots have been from games at least 15 years old, so I'm sure there is rather massive room for improvement.


With an experienced professional doing the overhaul I don't expect a copy of something dated or a hack job like the screen shot I put together. However, sometimes when a non-user makes changes there is a risk that the results are less than what could have been. The point I've been trying to convey is that the more input from us the better chance we have of avoiding that.

Meanwhile, we have the opportunity to throw out our opinions. Personally I'm not concerned about things that might be new features. Matrix and the Graphics Artist know what they are doing so they don't need to ask us for any help. I am sure the end result is going to be awesome. Its the old functionality that is my focus in this thread [what we are used to and how changing that could affect us, what works and what could be improved, like assignable hot keys].

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 92
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 2:50:35 PM   
shunwick


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In TOAD I trust.

The important thing is continued support for the game and that seems assured.

Best wishes,
Steve

_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 93
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 3:16:14 PM   
Lobster


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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

There's plenty of room over and under the "death star", at least at high res. Ideally, this unit panel (and others) could be minimized so...


Yeah, but different resolutions use different death star space, so that might not be possible.

Maybe the Unit Display at the upper right could be slightly expanded ?

quote:

I like having as much map as possible at sight


You've got 2560 x 1440 and you want MORE ?? Seriously though, what if there were more zoom choices [other than the three currently available] ? I mean, I think you can get to a certain point where you get a lot of map, but its not really playable because the units are too small.


The 'death star' that you guys mention is actually redundant. The battle planner shows how much of a turn a battle should take, although not entirely accurate due to randomness. And at the end of each round of combat you are told how much of the turn is left. Why not eliminate that redundant visual, the star, and stretch the buttons down to occupy that space giving more room for other things that are important.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 7/13/2015 4:15:53 PM >


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(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 94
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 4:04:20 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 1049
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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:


quote:


1) the terrain background in the unit boxes makes everything difficult to see/read--better to give the unit boxes a plain background

I agree, and like I said earlier there is a mod for that. Somebody step forward and provide a link, please !

From what I understand there are files called bk_*.bmp that are used to generate the background terrain in the unit display
and I've made a file that has only a single color for the background ( I'm using black ) and I've copied that file into the
bk_*.bmp files one at a time so that they all are a single color and note that this is in the AltGraphics directory that I'm
doing this. That way you should have a plain background.


By the way, forgot to say, select Maximum value in Options -> Text Contrast and the background of the unit box becomes black directly without file manipulation.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 95
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 4:41:11 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

Posts: 37776
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quote:

By the way, forgot to say, select Maximum value in Options -> Text Contrast and the background of the unit box becomes black directly without file manipulation.

Way cool beans dude. Good catch. I did all that file manipulation for nothing. D'oh. Live and learn I guess.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/13/2015 5:40:54 PM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 96
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 4:56:38 PM   
Freyr Oakenshield


Posts: 398
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

There's plenty of room over and under the "death star", at least at high res. Ideally, this unit panel (and others) could be minimized so...


Yeah, but different resolutions use different death star space, so that might not be possible.

Maybe the Unit Display at the upper right could be slightly expanded ?

quote:

I like having as much map as possible at sight


You've got 2560 x 1440 and you want MORE ?? Seriously though, what if there were more zoom choices [other than the three currently available] ? I mean, I think you can get to a certain point where you get a lot of map, but its not really playable because the units are too small.


The 'death star' that you guys mention is actually redundant. The battle planner shows how much of a turn a battle should take, although not entirely accurate due to randomness. And at the end of each round of combat you are told how much of the turn is left. Why not eliminate that redundant visual, the star, and stretch the buttons down to occupy that space giving more room for other things that are important.




The "death star" is not redundant. It's very informative and enables you to quickly see how much turn will be burnt. As for the battle planner, come on..., who uses the battle planner but absolute beginners...?

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 97
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 5:09:20 PM   
berto


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From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

The 'death star' that you guys mention is actually redundant. The battle planner shows how much of a turn a battle should take, although not entirely accurate due to randomness. And at the end of each round of combat you are told how much of the turn is left. Why not eliminate that redundant visual, the star, and stretch the buttons down to occupy that space giving more room for other things that are important.

Yes, the "death star" takes up much screen space. How about a progress bar with explicit % -- e.g., "******.... 40%" -- employ a visually appealing progress bar graphic, of course! -- in the below-the-map Status Bar, showing how much of the turn is left? You don't need to take up any more screen space than that.

_____________________________


(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 98
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 5:13:59 PM   
Freyr Oakenshield


Posts: 398
Joined: 4/25/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

The 'death star' that you guys mention is actually redundant. The battle planner shows how much of a turn a battle should take, although not entirely accurate due to randomness. And at the end of each round of combat you are told how much of the turn is left. Why not eliminate that redundant visual, the star, and stretch the buttons down to occupy that space giving more room for other things that are important.

Yes, the "death star" takes up much screen space. How about a progress bar with explicit % -- e.g., "******.... 40%" -- employ a visually appealing progress bar graphic, of course! -- in the below-the-map Status Bar, showing how much of the turn is left? You don't need to take up any more screen space than that.


It doesn't have to be a "death star." But, IMO, there should be some easily accessible and visible info on how much turn has been/will be burnt without the nuisance of entering the battle planner.

edit:

Yeah, an easily visible progress bar would be OK, I guess...


< Message edited by Freyr Oakenshield -- 7/13/2015 6:17:16 PM >

(in reply to berto)
Post #: 99
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 5:34:03 PM   
76mm


Posts: 3552
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: berto
Yes, the "death star" takes up much screen space. How about a progress bar with explicit % -- e.g., "******.... 40%" -- employ a visually appealing progress bar graphic, of course! -- in the below-the-map Status Bar, showing how much of the turn is left? You don't need to take up any more screen space than that.


+1

I really hope to be pleasantly surprised by what Matrix's "experienced professional graphic designer" comes up with; while I can't remember any Matrix UIs that really blew me away, most of them are fully adequate and functional.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 7/13/2015 6:33:37 PM >

(in reply to berto)
Post #: 100
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 8:17:29 PM   
demyansk


Posts: 2253
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: online
I downloaded the patch, should I install it or are problems still evident?

Thanks

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 101
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 8:59:51 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 8464
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
@Demjansk - There have been no reported problems with 3.4.1.9.

quote:


It is just the principle of the tree that I found interesting to display the OOB and for easy navigation between units.


Compared to what we have [seen in the screen shot] I agree, nice idea. The only Action we have available from this OOB is to click on a unit so that the box will close and the map then centers on that unit. A 'new' tree type display could do the same thing. It might be a challenge for the graphics people, they need to allow for whatever the parameters are expanded to. Currently we have what - 2,000 units and 400 formations ? That's a big tree ! And since every scenario is different, the scenario designers would have to have the ability to build the tree. The player would want the ability to modify the tree. Hmm ... if the player could modify it, then the designer wouldn't really have to do it if they didn't want to, just let the player do it if they want.

Anyway, it sounds like a great idea, and would be much better than what we currently have.

EDIT: Ah, I didn't check my mouse over news at the bottom, we can also go to the Unit Report from here. I never use the OOB Dialogue so I didn't know that.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 7/14/2015 5:01:59 AM >

(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 102
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 9:01:18 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 8464
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From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
Another example of an Expandable OOB Display, not so much a tree as linear:




Attachment (1)

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 103
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 10:08:19 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 2645
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
I like the way Decisive Campaigns does it. Extremely flexible plus if you click a category to the left it will give you every unit of that type. You can click on units and it will jump to the unit's location.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lobster -- 7/13/2015 11:08:26 PM >


_____________________________

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"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 104
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 10:12:36 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 2645
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

There's plenty of room over and under the "death star", at least at high res. Ideally, this unit panel (and others) could be minimized so...


Yeah, but different resolutions use different death star space, so that might not be possible.

Maybe the Unit Display at the upper right could be slightly expanded ?

quote:

I like having as much map as possible at sight


You've got 2560 x 1440 and you want MORE ?? Seriously though, what if there were more zoom choices [other than the three currently available] ? I mean, I think you can get to a certain point where you get a lot of map, but its not really playable because the units are too small.


The 'death star' that you guys mention is actually redundant. The battle planner shows how much of a turn a battle should take, although not entirely accurate due to randomness. And at the end of each round of combat you are told how much of the turn is left. Why not eliminate that redundant visual, the star, and stretch the buttons down to occupy that space giving more room for other things that are important.




The "death star" is not redundant. It's very informative and enables you to quickly see how much turn will be burnt. As for the battle planner, come on..., who uses the battle planner but absolute beginners...?


After playing the game since TOAW I, me.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

(in reply to Freyr Oakenshield)
Post #: 105
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/13/2015 11:08:35 PM   
Meyer1

 

Posts: 876
Joined: 2/9/2010
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WITE's OOB screen is pretty nice too




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 106
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 12:00:49 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 2645
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From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
I guess. But the colors promote depression.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

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Post #: 107
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 12:04:12 AM   
Meyer1

 

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Joined: 2/9/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

I guess. But the colors promote depression.

Had to lower jpg quality to keep the file under 200kb.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 108
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 12:08:18 AM   
Freyr Oakenshield


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Joined: 4/25/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Another example of an Expandable OOB Display, not so much a tree as linear:






Is this V for Victory?

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 109
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 12:10:01 AM   
Meyer1

 

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Well, one thing that jumps on front looking to other games' oob screens, is that the TOAW one is ridiculously small, needlessly so (you can't play with the oob screen open), making it bigger allow to vastly improvement of it.

(in reply to Meyer1)
Post #: 110
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 12:16:51 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 8464
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

Is this V for Victory?


Yeah, V4V. [My favorite Supply and Attachment system].

(in reply to Freyr Oakenshield)
Post #: 111
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 12:18:53 AM   
Freyr Oakenshield


Posts: 398
Joined: 4/25/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

Is this V for Victory?


Yeah, V4V. [My favorite Supply and Attachment system].


Those were the days!



As for "a complete graphics and interface overhaul," this is from SSG's Kharkov:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Freyr Oakenshield -- 7/14/2015 1:27:16 AM >

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 112
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 12:53:01 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 2645
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Meyer1

Well, one thing that jumps on front looking to other games' oob screens, is that the TOAW one is ridiculously small, needlessly so (you can't play with the oob screen open), making it bigger allow to vastly improvement of it.


Right. So much could be done to make it hugely better.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

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Post #: 113
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 1:13:21 AM   
Freyr Oakenshield


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This is from Tiller's Pz Campaigns. It's simple graphically but a lot better than what we have now in TOAW.

It's simple and clear. I wouldn't mind having something like this in TOAW.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 114
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 1:54:53 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 2645
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From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
The units are clickable. But you can't go to the location of any units by clicking on them. It only highlights the units. You have to scroll the map to find them. Something I've always wondered about when playing his games.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 7/14/2015 2:54:45 AM >


_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

(in reply to Freyr Oakenshield)
Post #: 115
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 2:00:09 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 8464
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From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

This is from Tiller's Pz Campaigns.


Ants on a light bulb, that is worse than using 1024 x 768, lol.

(in reply to Freyr Oakenshield)
Post #: 116
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 2:03:48 AM   
Freyr Oakenshield


Posts: 398
Joined: 4/25/2014
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You can always give it some colour, change the size of the font, etc...

edit:

I was referring rather to the general structure of the OOB - the tree.

< Message edited by Freyr Oakenshield -- 7/14/2015 3:04:31 AM >

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 117
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 2:08:18 AM   
Meyer1

 

Posts: 876
Joined: 2/9/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

You can always give it some colour, change the size of the font, etc...

edit:

I was referring rather to the general structure of the OOB - the tree.



Hey, I wish that we would have something like that on TOAW. Makes playing monster scenarios so much easier.

< Message edited by Meyer1 -- 7/14/2015 3:07:55 AM >

(in reply to Freyr Oakenshield)
Post #: 118
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 2:11:27 AM   
Freyr Oakenshield


Posts: 398
Joined: 4/25/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meyer1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

You can always give it some colour, change the size of the font, etc...

edit:

I was referring rather to the general structure of the OOB - the tree.



Hey, I wish that we would have something like that on TOAW. Makes playing monster scenarios so much easier.



Of all the OOBs presented here, I think I like the Decisive Campaigns OOB best. But yes, Tiller's would probably be a lot better for huge scenarios with thousands of units.

(in reply to Meyer1)
Post #: 119
RE: a complete graphics and interface overhaul - 7/14/2015 3:57:53 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 8464
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

You can always give it some colour, change the size of the font, etc...


YAY !! Options !! [I was joking of course, that's why I put the 'lol' at the end, didn't mean to pick on it].

quote:

I think I like the Decisive Campaigns OOB best.


I can't decide if like either better than another, but as long as Matrix changes it to something more useful than what is there now, I would be happy. Probably even more than happy.

(in reply to Freyr Oakenshield)
Post #: 120
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