Mktours(Ger)VsSaper222(sov)---AAR cancelled
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
Mktours(Ger)VsSaper222(sov)---AAR cancelled
Since other players are interested in this game, I will do a brief AAR to share the opening and what happen in 1941.
Game setting:
(1)1941-1945 full campaign (I would do a probably much better opening than normal Lvov, so full Campaign give Soviet side more strategy space)
(2)Full FOW
(3)Lock HQ support
(4) Non-random Weather
(5) Regular Blizzard
(6) Soviet player bonus: attack+1
Saper set soviet transport level at 50%. It turns out that it might be too harsh for soviet side, but we didn’t know that before we started the game.
House rules:
(1)No Paratrooper dropping
(2)Ground unit bombing could only be made against hexes which are to be ground attacked in the current turn. In other words, if a hex would not be ground attacked in that turn, then it should not be Ground unit bombed
(3)No bombing on HQs. There is only one situation that a hex containing a HQ could be bombed: the HQ is stacking with a ground unit and the unit is to be ground-attacked in the same turn.
(4)No airfield bombing after T1.
(5)No more than 3 bombing at each city & port per turn.
(6)Airbases (including German army airbase) could only move at the end of each turn, after all air missions have been finished.
(7)Airbase could not enter newly conquer & converted hexes in the current turn. It could only enter those hexes which are already under friendly controlled at the start of one’s turn. If a pocket has been open in the turn, then the airbase could move into the pocket that turn.
(8)Air drop must be made to at least 1 hex away from the staging airbase.
(9)After a unit received air-drop supply & fuel, it must stop moving that turn.
(10)HQ build up must be made within 20 Mp range of rail head, and the HQ must not move in the whole turn.
(11)No more than 3 ground unit bombing against one hex per turn
(12)No more than 5 ground attacks against one hex per turn
(13)No naval invasions before November 1941, none outside the 1939 Soviet borders before January 1943; in addition if Sevastopol is either isolated, or in German hands, none west of the Crimea.
(14)No soviet bombing Polesti before 1943.
Game setting:
(1)1941-1945 full campaign (I would do a probably much better opening than normal Lvov, so full Campaign give Soviet side more strategy space)
(2)Full FOW
(3)Lock HQ support
(4) Non-random Weather
(5) Regular Blizzard
(6) Soviet player bonus: attack+1
Saper set soviet transport level at 50%. It turns out that it might be too harsh for soviet side, but we didn’t know that before we started the game.
House rules:
(1)No Paratrooper dropping
(2)Ground unit bombing could only be made against hexes which are to be ground attacked in the current turn. In other words, if a hex would not be ground attacked in that turn, then it should not be Ground unit bombed
(3)No bombing on HQs. There is only one situation that a hex containing a HQ could be bombed: the HQ is stacking with a ground unit and the unit is to be ground-attacked in the same turn.
(4)No airfield bombing after T1.
(5)No more than 3 bombing at each city & port per turn.
(6)Airbases (including German army airbase) could only move at the end of each turn, after all air missions have been finished.
(7)Airbase could not enter newly conquer & converted hexes in the current turn. It could only enter those hexes which are already under friendly controlled at the start of one’s turn. If a pocket has been open in the turn, then the airbase could move into the pocket that turn.
(8)Air drop must be made to at least 1 hex away from the staging airbase.
(9)After a unit received air-drop supply & fuel, it must stop moving that turn.
(10)HQ build up must be made within 20 Mp range of rail head, and the HQ must not move in the whole turn.
(11)No more than 3 ground unit bombing against one hex per turn
(12)No more than 5 ground attacks against one hex per turn
(13)No naval invasions before November 1941, none outside the 1939 Soviet borders before January 1943; in addition if Sevastopol is either isolated, or in German hands, none west of the Crimea.
(14)No soviet bombing Polesti before 1943.
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsSaper222(sov)
That will be an interesting AAR. I'm damn curious about what you cooked in your mind
Thanks Mktours.
Thanks Mktours.
T1north
I made some improvement from the opening against Marquo.
In the north, I chose to postpone the Minsk pocket for 1 turn.
People could check themselves to see that it is much better to postpone it for 1 turn. It will pocket more men and weapons.
In the north, I chose to postpone the Minsk pocket for 1 turn.
People could check themselves to see that it is much better to postpone it for 1 turn. It will pocket more men and weapons.
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsSaper222(sov)
I enjoyed reading your AARs too. Thanks for being interested in this game.ORIGINAL: Callistrid
That will be an interesting AAR. I'm damn curious about what you cooked in your mind
Thanks Mktours.
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RE: T1 south
What's the missing point? Why you allowed all major pockets open?
You will play the huge southern encirclement again? If yes, will be another correction in 1.08.05.
You will play the huge southern encirclement again? If yes, will be another correction in 1.08.05.
- Northern Star
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Lvov
Instead of creating the pocket in T1, I think that it might be better to just lock the rail and postpone the pocket for 1 turn.
With the 1:1=2:1 rule, the Pz division needs to go the rough hex to be safe.
With the 1:1=2:1 rule, the Pz division needs to go the rough hex to be safe.
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RE: T1 south
They can't escape in T2. You will see what happen in T2.ORIGINAL: Callistrid
What's the missing point? Why you allowed all major pockets open?
You will play the huge southern encirclement again? If yes, will be another correction in 1.08.05.
- Northern Star
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RE: Lvov
I see many routed units outside the pockets... are you really sure it is a good idea?
I have some doubts...
I have some doubts...
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RE: T1 south
In sappers side, on south he must run back to the rivers, protect Kiev, with strong troops, and allow you to drive deeply in Ukraine. If you will play the Bessarabia pocket, he will won 1-2 turn slowing your FBD building process. My experience as soviet on southern front the FBD line is the most critical strategical factor. That rail line determine the soviet defense strategy, and every turn, when he can slow the building process, he save in industrial area.
I belive, when the 1.08.05 will arrive, the soviets will gladly sacrifice all his southern front, if he can hold 1-2 turn in Bessarabia.
I belive, when the 1.08.05 will arrive, the soviets will gladly sacrifice all his southern front, if he can hold 1-2 turn in Bessarabia.
RE: T1 south
I have given the recommendation of how to defend this opening in my old AAR:ORIGINAL: Callistrid
In sappers side, on south he must run back to the rivers, protect Kiev, with strong troops, and allow you to drive deeply in Ukraine. If you will play the Bessarabia pocket, he will won 1-2 turn slowing your FBD building process. My experience as soviet on southern front the FBD line is the most critical strategical factor. That rail line determine the soviet defense strategy, and every turn, when he can slow the building process, he save in industrial area.
I belive, when the 1.08.05 will arrive, the soviets will gladly sacrifice all his southern front, if he can hold 1-2 turn in Bessarabia.
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" Perhaps the better way to defend this opening is to guard Kiev and the east bank of the river properly."
- Northern Star
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RE: T1 south
But all the units (especially in south east of the pocket and in Pripyat marshes are still free to move by rail... did you pocket also all these units?
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RE: T1 south
I never understand why try the other players defend the western part of ukraine. Around the dnieper, the rough terrain slow any german tryout for one turn, and the extra 1-2 turn, when the german panzer spearhead reach the river could be useful to refit the starting troops, build fortifications, and attach sapper regiments to the HQ-s. In 1.08.03. disbanding some early corps gives an easy choice organise the Southwestern + southern front troops. The german can't cross the river on T02-04 in that way. In maintime, units could start build frontline around kharkov, using the population building boost.
And of course defend Odessa with all cost.
And of course defend Odessa with all cost.
RE: T1 south
In the south, rail had been locked by the PzD in the rough hex.ORIGINAL: Northern Star
But all the units (especially in south and in Pripyat marshes are still free to move by rail... did you pocket also all these units?
I want to see people's comments on T1 before posting the T2, so it will be later.
RE: Mktours(Ger)VsSaper222(sov)
I think it's fine to leave the Lvov open for one turn and push East as fast as possible. I don't think there's much to choose between that and closing the pocket on turn one. I've done both and there's pros and cons to each.
Not closing the Minsk pocket on turn one will cost 9th and 4th army some time (half a turn ish). Personally I'd rather send one or two of 24th pz corps divisions towards Minsk to seal it.
Not closing the Minsk pocket on turn one will cost 9th and 4th army some time (half a turn ish). Personally I'd rather send one or two of 24th pz corps divisions towards Minsk to seal it.
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RE: Mktours(Ger)VsSaper222(sov)
Not closing, and prevent the infantry division movement, will slow the center attack. With +1 soviet bonus, the german panzers can operate just with the infantry divisions, or they will be beated.
RE: T1 south
The power of this opening is that Soviet will be short of troops in T1 to react, Germany pin down much more troops than normal Lvov. So it is not easy to defend everything. Soviet side must make priority and sacrifice.ORIGINAL: Callistrid
I never understand why try the other players defend the western part of ukraine. Around the dnieper, the rough terrain slow any german tryout for one turn, and the extra 1-2 turn, when the german panzer spearhead reach the river could be useful to refit the starting troops, build fortifications, and attach sapper regiments to the HQ-s. In 1.08.03. disbanding some early corps gives an easy choice organise the Southwestern + southern front troops. The german can't cross the river on T02-04 in that way. In maintime, units could start build frontline around kharkov, using the population building boost.
And of course defend Odessa with all cost.