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RE: IMPORTANT: State of the Game and Future Plans as of June, 2015

 
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RE: IMPORTANT: State of the Game and Future Plans as of... - 10/12/2017 9:39:55 AM   
juntoalmar


Posts: 466
Joined: 9/29/2013
From: Valencia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arglebargle

quote:

In software development we have a saying: "to finish the project, it will take one programmer working 1 month, or two programmers working 2 months."


I have never heard that saying and I don't agree with it either. If you would have said 1 hour would take 2 hours for 2 programmers sure but on the other hand then programmers aren't that good. The smart option in that case would be for 1 programmers to solve the problem and for the other one to take a 1 hour coffee break ...


Brooks' Law


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(in reply to Arglebargle)
Post #: 121
RE: IMPORTANT: State of the Game and Future Plans as of... - 10/24/2017 7:26:56 PM   
Arglebargle

 

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Sure Brooks's law and the "The Mythical Man-Month" is well known but that statement still need to put the time and complexity in context to make it valid.

I have not yet come across a multi month programming project that have zero divisibility of tasks.

I guess the amount of work needed and the complexity of this project was underestimated since I guess that the original estimates for this project was not more then 12 years.

(in reply to juntoalmar)
Post #: 122
RE: IMPORTANT: State of the Game and Future Plans as of... - 10/26/2017 11:03:58 AM   
Dabrion


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Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Berlin, Germany
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702000 sloc hmm.. did you press the disassembler button? :§ My longest program was titled "Hello World (directors cut)" and had 702001 sloc in the same amount of modules, I win!

Seriously though, I would have to look up numbers. UOX and DoL are somewhere in the 500k - 1M sloc range by my estimates. Vassal has a little over 200k. Not that I wrote all those lines ..
The lab rotations and student projects I supervise reach ~100k sloc with a 2 month time investment. Not sure what a comparison on that level is going to accomplish though.


@Brook's Law: I think it is quite ridiculous to argue diminishing returns when contemplating a +1 for a solo project. Even in this special case the +1 could just do QA and continuous integration/testing for the project. That would enable Steve to focus on progressive coding, and consecutively eliminate all those regression bugs you seem to suffer from a lot. Moving from one "square forward, one square back" to "one square forward." is going to be an infinite increase in productivity..

< Message edited by Dabrion -- 10/26/2017 11:07:25 AM >


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“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Arglebargle)
Post #: 123
RE: IMPORTANT: State of the Game and Future Plans as of... - 10/26/2017 7:13:14 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21343
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

702000 sloc hmm.. did you press the disassembler button? :§ My longest program was titled "Hello World (directors cut)" and had 702001 sloc in the same amount of modules, I win!

Seriously though, I would have to look up numbers. UOX and DoL are somewhere in the 500k - 1M sloc range by my estimates. Vassal has a little over 200k. Not that I wrote all those lines ..
The lab rotations and student projects I supervise reach ~100k sloc with a 2 month time investment. Not sure what a comparison on that level is going to accomplish though.


@Brook's Law: I think it is quite ridiculous to argue diminishing returns when contemplating a +1 for a solo project. Even in this special case the +1 could just do QA and continuous integration/testing for the project. That would enable Steve to focus on progressive coding, and consecutively eliminate all those regression bugs you seem to suffer from a lot. Moving from one "square forward, one square back" to "one square forward." is going to be an infinite increase in productivity..

MWIF is pure Delphi (basically Object Oriented Pascal). I replaced all the built in Assembler and other unusual code I inherited from CWIF because: (1) I didn't trust the updates to the operating system (i.e., Windows) to necessarily support all those calls in the future (specifically changes in the hardware), and (2) Delphi generates pretty efficient object code. Trying to improve performance with difficult to understand source code seemed self-defeating to me, given the potential for catastrophic changes by outside parties causing months of effort repairing existing code.

The ever improving speed of CPUs and disk access reduces the (old) requirement for extremely efficient code. Still, writing good/efficient source code is crucial for MWIF. It just doesn't have to be dealing with bits, shifts, and logic masks all the time.

[On the other hand, the map and unit data are stored as packed binary. Masking and shifting are used continuously in the program to extract individual values for hexes, units, etc. I left that as it was in CWIF - for the most part - and even added to it to include additional functionality in the game. But that was because there are 70,200 hexes and 7000+ units. To my eye it seemed foolish to allocated 50+ variables to each of those instead of just 4 for hexes and ~10 for units.]

As for line count - I take what Delphi tells me when I do a full compile. There are some third party libraries in there - and that code is very verbose [if that is the right word to use]. Also the compiler is dealing with 100+ forms, which can be edited visually by the programmer, but the compiler converts them all into source code. I have no sense of how much code is thereby generated for each form.

What I do know, is that if I add 100 lines of source code myself, then the line count generated by Delphi increases by 100.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 124
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