Come on Really?!

[MrDave]

I am in the full campaign; date: 22,Sept'42. Top commanders assigned to each CV and plane grp. So far I have avoided any 1V1 CV combat, just to preserve my CV's which I have six, grouped into two TFs of three each. These are/were supporting the Guadalcanal invasion. I just found my boys doing a pretty good job of Cap but were just overwhelmed by nearly 200 Jap planes on the first wave. I lost the Yorktown and major damage to the other five plus BB's, CLAAs, etc. I had my scouts out.

Not one enemy CV was touched! Don't know what else I could have done differently. It's as though I'm back at square one now. Only saving grace is that I didn't save this debacle.

Suggestions, ideas??

[HansBolter]

Even a concentration of all six US carriers is not going to stand a chance against the full weight of the KB in '42 outside of very heavy LBA cover.

You also hurt yourself by using 3 CV TFs in 42. There is a coordination penalty that decreases over time and combining more than 2 fleet CVs in 42 incurs this penalty.

An invasion of an island group outside of heavy LBA is only viable in '42 if you are certain the KB is on the other side of the ocean.

Since you are playing solitaire experiment with different combinations of CVs in smaller groupings say 3 TFs of 2 CVs each and vary your CAP setting to see if both different settings and die rolls will yield better results, but don't be surprised if you don't improve much on the initial run through.

200 bombers will just about succeed every time in getting at least a few through.

[MrDave]

Thanks Hans. I appreciate the pointers. I was not aware of the coordination penalty for one. Fortunately I did not save this so I can RUN away. LOL.

[KenchiSulla]

MrDave, if you want some more specific feedback then please post the combat report and perhaps a screenshot of the map situation.

[MrDave]

I will next time. Probably just my frustration venting anyway. Thanks.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: MrDave

I will next time. Probably just my frustration venting anyway. Thanks.

If you want to learn from this, which seems advisable since the result should not be as bad as you described, post your air group settings, your leader stats, your fleet commanders stats, your TF compositions, a map and the CR from the turn. That will get you much more help.

[ny59giants]

Its also easy to overlook the need to train your CV based planes, especially, in two skills. For fighters its Air and then Straf (altitude down to 100') to raise their Defend skill and their overall experience into the 50s. CAP should be 30 to 50% (I use 40 or 50 primarily). Then, there is the need for the big 10/42 upgrade that significantly raises the American AA values (Bofors come in and out goes the 1.1" guns) to help increase survivability. Many Allied players wait until '43 when they can get the Hellcats in place of Wildcats. As others have said, there are lots of factors that go into a good CV vs CV engagement. We didn't even get into the 'fickle finger of fate 'called weather!

[m10bob]

Don't forget the higher you set your CAP, the less chance your bomber groups will attack the enemy!.
It is important (and natural) to keep a good CAP to protect your flattops but too high a CAP will keep the bombers from pressing home the attacks.
Also important is the height you set your dive bombers at.
Setting them low will allow them to go in piecemeal, some say giving them greater chances of hitting target(S), but setting them at 16000+ will send those planes hurtling down on ONE target, increasing the odds of hitting that ONE target.
If that ONE target happens to be an enemy carrier refueling planes, even one deck hit can improve your odds and deplete his CAP significantly for your next attacks.

Early in the war..SBD's are not coming off the assembly line fast enough to replace your losses, so take advantage of "in port time" by temporarily putting those planes on training missions. The Japanese start with better pilots, veterans of combat in China....

Early in the war you want to husband your carriers to prevent their loss,(as happened to the allies in real life), but it is natural for you to be frustrated after suffering the losses suffered at Pearl..

[crsutton]

Losing the one carrier is not such a big deal. Send the damaged ones home and repair them. You may lose some units and a great deal of time at the Canal but still you should eventually recover and hand the Japanese a defeat.

[btd64]

Wipe of the dirt and press on....GP

[AW1Steve]

You learn more from your defeats than you will ever learn from your victories. [8|]

[Big B]

I would suggest doing what the US Navy did - operate your CV's in single carrier TF's, 2 or 3 cruisers & 6 DD's each as escort, - ALL following the same lead TF at 0 range, all on Reaction range 6, Absolute Threat.

You will NOT get all 5 or 6 CV Air Wings to simultaneously attack together - you don't even want to.
You SHOULD get all 5 or 6 to CV Air Wings to attack in waves of varying strength.

The first couple waves will always get shot up pretty good against the Full KB - a lot of Zeroes to encounter, but the Follow-on waves will encounter relatively little opposition - and hit targets (Jap CV's).

You should ALWAYS count on loosing at least a carrier under heavy opposition like the full KB (6x fleet carriers).
BUT - the exchange should go in your favor at the end. And if you trade 1 for 1 - you are winning anyway.
The key is - when the KB hits you - they will not attack ALL of your CV TF's, so damage will be limited to those few hit.

Food for thought.

B

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

You learn more from your defeats than you will ever learn from your victories. [8|]

Mostly you learn: 'NEVER DO THAT AGAIN!' [:'(]

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

You learn more from your defeats than you will ever learn from your victories. [8|]

Some folks learn by being told.

Some folks learn by seeing an example.

Some folks....well....Ya' just gotta let 'em pee on the electric fence.[8|]

[pontiouspilot]

Did you have the CV TFs sitting on a base? If you can find the full story to post you will get some very detailed answers on what might have happened

[witpaemail]

It also matters what altitude your CAP is at. If they are at 32,000 feet for example, dont expect them to do much...

[witpaemail]

ORIGINAL: m10bob


Some folks....well....Ya' just gotta let 'em pee on the electric fence.

I let my nephew do that once. Never laughed so hard in my life [:D]

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: witpaemail

ORIGINAL: m10bob


Some folks....well....Ya' just gotta let 'em pee on the electric fence.

I let my nephew do that once. Never laughed so hard in my life [:D]