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11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 12:26:58 AM   
Pitaman

 

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I am playing new game using beta update and noticed the RR repair unit for 11Th Army is missing. I checked to see if I disbanded by mistake but the game shows no axis units disbanded. The repair unit has been missing the whole game. I am on turn 5 now.
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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 12:44:52 AM   
Mehring

 

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It's been removed :)

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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 1:17:06 AM   
Pitaman

 

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Just to be clear, you are saying unit removed from OOB with this beta update

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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 2:21:59 AM   
Denniss

 

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If you are talking about FBD 5 then it will appear in 5/42. It was simply not there earlier.
If you are not talking about FBD 5 please be a bit more precise which unit is missing where.

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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 12:03:03 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pitaman

I am playing new game using beta update and noticed the RR repair unit for 11Th Army is missing. I checked to see if I disbanded by mistake but the game shows no axis units disbanded. The repair unit has been missing the whole game. I am on turn 5 now.


Its not really needed if your using the best possible routes.

I only lose 4 hexes in the south on the drive to Don.

The one area that will lose a link is the very center of the map, but this can be over come some what by turning one unit south after the land bridge.

There still will be a blind spot, but if you have infantry in that area you can simply fly in supplies during mud/snow/blizzard.

not really much of a loss


< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/17/2015 1:03:36 PM >


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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 1:38:57 PM   
Gabriel B.

 

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AKA rail FDB 4 to Romania.

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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 5:13:12 PM   
loki100


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just to say, this may well be confusing the German AI. Agree its easy for a player to adjust but in my current game the AI has no rail conversion south of Cherkassy-Kursk

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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 5:34:22 PM   
charlie0311

 

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just to say, somebody gets an idea about how to improve this game, and then, the evidence comes in, and , they ignore it, see all the above, in the case of FBD 5 they have made the game worse and now will be stubborn about fixing it.

Ok, I'll state the perfectly obvious. 1) no FBD 5 doesn't impede the axis advance, as always the players have learned a work around 2) the work around adds needless tedium to the game 3) they drive even more players away from the game.

No offense..

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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 9:06:01 PM   
Mehring

 

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I think it's great step forward to remove FBD 5, and truer to history. That game evolution and play has to some extent been determined by a unit that was never there is no reason to perpetuate a fiction, just to continue adjusting the game. That seems to be what the devs are doing, all credit to them.

_____________________________

“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
¯ Thomas Jefferson

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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 9:59:52 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

I think it's great step forward to remove FBD 5, and truer to history. That game evolution and play has to some extent been determined by a unit that was never there is no reason to perpetuate a fiction, just to continue adjusting the game. That seems to be what the devs are doing, all credit to them.


It is historical and if it was done on release no one would care and the "work around" would be the norm.

Truth is the 5th was useless until turn 12.

As it stands without it Devs could remove the 4th and GHC railheads would just as far east as with 5.

The 4th and 5th only really help by tring the 3 together before Dec so that after that the rail net is a none factor.

So as it stands now

1. 1st FBD turns south after Pskov to tie in with 2nd.
2. The 2nd and 3rd meet on the land bridge and 2nd heads for Tula or just south of Oka
3. 3rd heads south to tie in with 4th long before 42.

Only the deep south can get screwed by partisans as the other 3 are all tied together and partisans will never brake all 3 lines so supplies to AGN/AGC and 1 Army from AGS will never get cut off.

So the simple counter to keep AGS rolling is have ALL JU-52's in the south by turn 7.

Also as 109's are about useless in the south so put 1/2 of them on night patrol.

Removing FDB 5 is not boring as its been about useless anyways

Its all about how fast your infantry move east not your tanks


< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/17/2015 11:01:34 PM >


_____________________________

GHC WitE--26 - 4 - 8
GHC WitW-- 10 - 1 - 0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AwX_RKsi_c

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Post #: 10
RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 11:31:39 PM   
charlie0311

 

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Hi guys,

I think I get it, more work arounds (good)? At least the usual spate of personal attacks hasn't appeared, that would be progress.

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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/17/2015 11:40:22 PM   
Mehring

 

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"Work around" means finding a way to compensate for something broken or wrong. The appearance of FBD 5 in Bessarabia in 1941 was wrong. Now its been fixed.

The situation might be likened to someone who learns to compensate for a physical impediment. When the impediment is removed or cured, this often causes problems because what is right feels wrong until that person can adjust.

_____________________________

“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
¯ Thomas Jefferson

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 12
RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/18/2015 12:20:36 AM   
charlie0311

 

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Well, ok. Since FBD 5 didn't appear until Spring '42, it must be removed. Then FBD 3 isn't allowed in the Ukraine? The LW didn't concentrate the Ju-52's in the Ukraine either (summer '41), so we can't do that?

An easy way would be to start FBD 5 with or near FBD 4 attached to AGS. There are posts in these forums which show historical evidence of "FBD-lite" type of units operating in the Ukraine. FBD 5 would be, for game purposes, representing the lot of them.

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 13
RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/18/2015 12:41:46 AM   
Denniss

 

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The unit was formed in May 42, there's no need to discuss an earlier availability because it's simply not possible.
FBD 5 was actually disbanded in April 43 and rebuilt in July 43 for use in Italy.

There's a small difference between moving units around and creating units out of thin air.

As a welcome side effect a player now has to properly plan his initial advance in order to not outrun his rail lines, stacking FBDs for even faster conversion should be pretty much impossible without serious trobles elsewhere. In 42 the player is somewhat relieved with the arrival of FBD 5 (that's why it was historically created).

(in reply to charlie0311)
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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/18/2015 12:41:48 AM   
Mehring

 

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I see quite a difference between creating a non-existent unit and doing things differently from historical commands. True, many options open to players were not available in history, due to other real life limitations not represented yet in game. The game is moving ever so slowly to recreate or simulate better, historical conditions, and that is something I personally appreciate. Its a good chunk of why I tire of other games after a while but return to this.

Another option currently open to players, in fact done for them automatically, is to use dozens of construction/road building/repair units in a rail repair role when most of them should be doing other things. That greatly exaggerates any "FBD light" presence as the game is, and I'd love to get rid of that, too.

WitE 2 will probably model supply throughput to some degree, even though roads are still abstracted in WitW. Hopefully then, there will be no doubling up FBDs and all manner of gamey nonsense as you will only be able to shove a certain amount of supply down a route per week. The number of supply routes, then, will be of as much importance as their length. Panzerballs may become a thing of the past or greatly curtailed as you just won't be able to supply such concentrations as we often see in game today. I look forward to that, I think logistics is one of a handful of serious game inadequacies which needs to be, and is being, dealt with.

_____________________________

“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
¯ Thomas Jefferson

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 15
RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/18/2015 2:19:57 AM   
charlie0311

 

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Ok, last word from me. "out of thin air" as in sov player creating units?, that seems to ok. Redeployment of FBD 5 "can't be done", other units in the German start deployment have been redeployed, a Pz xxx from AGC for example (don't remember which one now).

This thread is fast becoming tedious, so that is all from me (collective sighs of relief). Go ahead and take the last word.

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 16
RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/18/2015 9:48:03 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

I see quite a difference between creating a non-existent unit and doing things differently from historical commands. True, many options open to players were not available in history, due to other real life limitations not represented yet in game. The game is moving ever so slowly to recreate or simulate better, historical conditions, and that is something I personally appreciate. Its a good chunk of why I tire of other games after a while but return to this.

Another option currently open to players, in fact done for them automatically, is to use dozens of construction/road building/repair units in a rail repair role when most of them should be doing other things. That greatly exaggerates any "FBD light" presence as the game is, and I'd love to get rid of that, too.

WitE 2 will probably model supply throughput to some degree, even though roads are still abstracted in WitW. Hopefully then, there will be no doubling up FBDs and all manner of gamey nonsense as you will only be able to shove a certain amount of supply down a route per week. The number of supply routes, then, will be of as much importance as their length. Panzerballs may become a thing of the past or greatly curtailed as you just won't be able to supply such concentrations as we often see in game today. I look forward to that, I think logistics is one of a handful of serious game inadequacies which needs to be, and is being, dealt with.


Panzer balls are not used during 41 as there are 3 thrusts and not one.

Panzer balls only happen in 42 and rail lines are every wheres.

Tank balls seem to be normal in WitW and the supply system is very flexable.

I see no difference personally other then you will not see massive pocket, but allot of pacman pockets in WitE 2.0

Things will be different with same results from what I see.


_____________________________

GHC WitE--26 - 4 - 8
GHC WitW-- 10 - 1 - 0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AwX_RKsi_c

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 17
RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/18/2015 9:52:47 AM   
morvael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Things will be different with same results from what I see.


"War. War never changes."

(in reply to Pelton)
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RE: 11th Army RR unit missing - 3/18/2015 12:09:53 PM   
Mehring

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Panzer balls are not used during 41 as there are 3 thrusts and not one.

Panzer balls only happen in 42 and rail lines are every wheres.

Tank balls seem to be normal in WitW and the supply system is very flexable.

I see no difference personally other then you will not see massive pocket, but allot of pacman pockets in WitE 2.0

Things will be different with same results from what I see.

I would find it disappointing if you turned out to be right here. However-

You may not use panzer balls in 1941, but that doesn't mean they are impossible at that time, or the "wrong" way to play the game in its current state. Though you may not call them "panzer balls" you yourself transfer considerable forces between AGs in a way that may not have made sense from an historical logistics perspective.

With one less FBD, even in the current beta rail lines will be less "everywhere" than previously in 41 and 42. Restrict abuse of road construction/repair and other SU abuse (need to build supply depots/airfields may have an indirect effect, even if current abuse continues theoretically) and the Axis rail net will take considerably longer to complete. I'm not clear whether throughput restrictions will simulate double/single track to any extent.

Comparison with WitW may be inappropriate as most of its area enjoys a higher "national infrastructure" level as well as smaller theatres. Who knows, we might even get roads depicted in WitE 2, even just by refining "national infrastructure" to "hex infrastructure" level. Mmmm. Makes me feel warm and cosy inside.


_____________________________

“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
¯ Thomas Jefferson

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 19
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