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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

 
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/18/2015 11:22:05 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
______________________________________________________________________________

Thoughts on the game so far. (Second impression)
______________________________________________________________________________

Realized something last night as I heard the email notification beep. I realized I didnīt want to stop playing my WitE AI game and do my WitW turn. It kind of caught me off guard. Why donīt I rather do a MP WitW turn then continuing on my WitE AI game? Especially considering Iīm only on T10 and getting thoroughly whooped around by the Axis AI.

It got me thinking. The realization of the the first "why" was quiet easy: Iīm not having very fun with WitW. The second "why" is harder though. Why am I not having much fun?

Last couple of years I spent all my spare time dedicated to playing 3 AE PBEMs. One of them went the entire distance to mid 45 which is no small feat considering what a mammoth game it is. I lay awake at night thinking about the game. Mentally approaching every possible move/counter move, operations in the planning, the last turn, the next turn and so on. I even woke up in the middle of the night on a workday to go up and look at the turn. Mind you I have two kids under 3 years so sleep is usually my number one priority!

I would never ever consider going up in the middle of the night for a WitW turn. I donīt even think about the game when Iīm not playing. Oddly enough I find myself reading through the entire WitE forum. Old AARs and threads about this and that. I even thought about the game when I was on my way to leave my daughter at daycare this morning. Should I move the newly formed 25th Army to Leningrad or keep them around Moscow? I have never done that when it comes to WitW.

Giving it a lot of thought I think I finally figured it out. I donīt feel connected to WitW. I donīt feel like Iīm fighting to win a war. I donīt care about getting to Berlin before the Russians do, or to liberate Paris. Or France for that matter. I donīt care about Italy. I donīt care if I lose 700 planes in a single week. I do care about one thing though:

VPs.

And in that lies the biggest problem with the game for me.

When Iīm playing AE I feel like Iīm rewarded for doing something that helps the war effort. I might shoot down 35 unescorted Betties trying to disturb my evacuation of Luzon. Or the Stingray putting two torpedoes into an unsuspecting Japanese tanker traveling in the South China Sea. Or the 1st and 2nd Marines recapturing Noumea from the 33rd Japanese ID. I also get punished by doing something that hurts the war effort and prolongs the war. Having the Yorktown sunk by a Japanese Sub outside Tarawa. Or having some of the Australian army bypassed and cut off in the Solomons... Or having a big chunk of the Indian army cut off around Calcutta in 42.

Now, whats the difference then? In AE you play to win the war and VPs are awarded accordingly. In WitW you donīt play to win the war but rather to get the points. I realize not everyone works like this but I do. And its ruining the game for me. When I play WitE I get that "feeling". I want to keep playing and get to Berlin eventually. The same drive that kept me playing some 1300 turns of AE. I wanted to win the war and lay Japan in ruins. In WitE I want to get to Berlin and win the war.

In WitW I couldnīt care less about the war. And that for me is the biggest failure of the game.

And there we have the third "why". How come I donīt care about the war in WitW? Not an easy answer. I think the question may have many answers. A part is the VP system. A part is the game and where the game is happening...

To be continued...



< Message edited by JocMeister -- 2/18/2015 1:07:26 PM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 241
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/18/2015 4:26:09 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
I asked Pelton if we could put this on hold for the next patch.

Sucks having 1200 bombers in the 8th sitting on the runway doing nothing... Thats potentially a lot of VPs missed every turn. Hopefully its fixed in the next patch.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 242
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/18/2015 4:50:37 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15335
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Sucks having 1200 bombers in the 8th sitting on the runway doing nothing... Thats potentially a lot of VPs missed every turn. Hopefully its fixed in the next patch.


Flight forming fix should help to make bigger strikes, but weather rolls are still there and many groups may fail to fly. You should try to pick shorter range target.

Sorry to hear on your immersion issue with WITW, which is quite strang as your AAR is one the most entertaining threads at least on WITW forum.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 243
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/18/2015 5:09:45 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

Sucks having 1200 bombers in the 8th sitting on the runway doing nothing... Thats potentially a lot of VPs missed every turn. Hopefully its fixed in the next patch.


Flight forming fix should help to make bigger strikes, but weather rolls are still there and many groups may fail to fly. You should try to pick shorter range target.

Sorry to hear on your immersion issue with WITW, which is quite strang as your AAR is one the most entertaining threads at least on WITW forum.


Thanks for the tip on weather/range. Iīll try some shorter ranged targets next time! I got some good raids a while back but lately 600 seems to be about the most I can get.

Yeah, it sucks that I canīt get into the game the way I want to. Hopefully Iīll come around eventually. Glad you like the AAR.

Once the patch is out we should be on our way again!

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 244
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/18/2015 6:25:47 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

______________________________________________________________________________

Thoughts on the game so far. (Second impression)
______________________________________________________________________________

Realized something last night as I heard the email notification beep. I realized I didnīt want to stop playing my WitE AI game and do my WitW turn. It kind of caught me off guard. Why donīt I rather do a MP WitW turn then continuing on my WitE AI game? Especially considering Iīm only on T10 and getting thoroughly whooped around by the Axis AI.

It got me thinking. The realization of the the first "why" was quiet easy: Iīm not having very fun with WitW. The second "why" is harder though. Why am I not having much fun?

Last couple of years I spent all my spare time dedicated to playing 3 AE PBEMs. One of them went the entire distance to mid 45 which is no small feat considering what a mammoth game it is. I lay awake at night thinking about the game. Mentally approaching every possible move/counter move, operations in the planning, the last turn, the next turn and so on. I even woke up in the middle of the night on a workday to go up and look at the turn. Mind you I have two kids under 3 years so sleep is usually my number one priority!

I would never ever consider going up in the middle of the night for a WitW turn. I donīt even think about the game when Iīm not playing. Oddly enough I find myself reading through the entire WitE forum. Old AARs and threads about this and that. I even thought about the game when I was on my way to leave my daughter at daycare this morning. Should I move the newly formed 25th Army to Leningrad or keep them around Moscow? I have never done that when it comes to WitW.

Giving it a lot of thought I think I finally figured it out. I donīt feel connected to WitW. I donīt feel like Iīm fighting to win a war. I donīt care about getting to Berlin before the Russians do, or to liberate Paris. Or France for that matter. I donīt care about Italy. I donīt care if I lose 700 planes in a single week. I do care about one thing though:

VPs.

And in that lies the biggest problem with the game for me.

When Iīm playing AE I feel like Iīm rewarded for doing something that helps the war effort. I might shoot down 35 unescorted Betties trying to disturb my evacuation of Luzon. Or the Stingray putting two torpedoes into an unsuspecting Japanese tanker traveling in the South China Sea. Or the 1st and 2nd Marines recapturing Noumea from the 33rd Japanese ID. I also get punished by doing something that hurts the war effort and prolongs the war. Having the Yorktown sunk by a Japanese Sub outside Tarawa. Or having some of the Australian army bypassed and cut off in the Solomons... Or having a big chunk of the Indian army cut off around Calcutta in 42.

Now, whats the difference then? In AE you play to win the war and VPs are awarded accordingly. In WitW you donīt play to win the war but rather to get the points. I realize not everyone works like this but I do. And its ruining the game for me. When I play WitE I get that "feeling". I want to keep playing and get to Berlin eventually. The same drive that kept me playing some 1300 turns of AE. I wanted to win the war and lay Japan in ruins. In WitE I want to get to Berlin and win the war.

In WitW I couldnīt care less about the war. And that for me is the biggest failure of the game.

And there we have the third "why". How come I donīt care about the war in WitW? Not an easy answer. I think the question may have many answers. A part is the VP system. A part is the game and where the game is happening...

To be continued...




1. Your not getting to Berlin not even close to it, so I can see why you don't think about it
2. If you like a real game of WitE I love to play you and no your not going to get near Berlin

The VP system needs a tweak for sure.

City VP's should be the 98% of the points.

Subs and V's also need to be part of the over all picture as the impact was real, but can't be done in this game not yet anyways 2%

That's it all the rest should be trashed completely.

Going forward that should be the only count.

It be easy to figure out the points, simply look at historical maps count the city points going forward to May as front moves.

total points.

Then simply set the scale- +/- 5% of total draw ect ect

Partisans should work as they did in WitE with citys needing troop or urbun centers. Allies should be able to interact with them supplies ect.

This VP system is what we wanted for WitE.

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 245
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/18/2015 9:02:57 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 1472
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

City VP's should be the 98% of the points.
Subs and V's also need to be part of the over all picture as the impact was real, but can't be done in this game not yet anyways 2%


Subs and V weapons were genuine war and political targets that have to represented somehow if you're going to give the player the entirety of the WA Air Force or they're just going to use it to destroy your supply network and interdict day and night.
VPs for U-boats and V-weapons are an attempt to play balance the game so people aren't howling about how 8th Air Force flew Combat Air Support the entire war.

I personally don't get Joc (and others) hangups about 'negative' points. But could that not be addressed by just reversing it and giving the Axis player some points based on how much U-boat construction they accomplish.

To everyone lamenting the futility of invading Italy - it was futile from a military perspective if your goal is Berlin! Churchill wanted to do it because he was more afraid of losing in '43 than trying to win. He also hoped to position the WA more favorably to influence the Balkans and Greece post-war. The gist of those political directives wasn't getting to Berlin the fastest.

The cool thing about this game is that if that is all that matters to you that's all you have to play for. If you want to get to Berlin in March of '45 and don't care how many Brits get vaporized by V2s, you can. Nothing stops you. Enjoyment is subjective.

I have only played a few short scenarios and have a couple of ongoing campaigns. None has gone that far, so I can't comment on overall VP balance (with respect to casualty costs, city point accumulation, etc.) But I like the approach of the VP system to try and create a political framework in which overall military strategy has to be conducted.
LiquidSky's game can be appreciated as a win by Marshall over Churchill in an almost alternate reality.

< Message edited by Seminole -- 2/18/2015 10:05:14 PM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 246
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/18/2015 9:07:33 PM   
Gratch1111

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline
What is AE?

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 247
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/18/2015 9:29:59 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1602
Joined: 9/8/2011
Status: offline
War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition.

(in reply to Gratch1111)
Post #: 248
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/19/2015 7:17:47 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
1. Your not getting to Berlin not even close to it, so I can see why you don't think about it
2. If you like a real game of WitE I love to play you and no your not going to get near Berlin


Hah, donīt be so sure. But with the current VP system we will never find out!

If you couldnīt beat me in WitE I would be very disappointed in you. Iīm getting kicked around by the AI..

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 249
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/19/2015 8:06:00 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
______________________________________________________________________________

Thoughts on the game so far. (Second impression) Continued...
______________________________________________________________________________

I donīt want to turn this post into another monologue about the VP system. But bear with me...

Besides the things I mentioned earlier about my dislike for certain aspects of the VP I think there is a bigger overall problem. Its connected to why I donīt care about the war but I do care about the VPs.

The VP system is like its own entity working outside the game itself. It has no real bearing or impact on the game besides deciding who wins or not. So you either play the game or you play the VP system. They are not a working together but rather against one and other. Or two different games. The "VP system" vs. "The Game".

Take the U-boat/V-Weapons for example. You only bomb them because you get a penalty within the VP system if you donīt. They have no real effect on the war at all. Its just numbers. There is nothing there to connect the VP penalties to the game. I can think of several small things that could have been done to make it feel more "real" and less abstract.

Combat losses. Same thing. Its just numbers within the VP system. Sure its a reflection on the losses you take on map. But it doesnīt effect the war one bit. In many cases its actually doing the opposite of what is happening within the game. Did you just surround and destroy 3 SS divisions? In "The game" this is a great victory that will seriously hurt the Axis player. But in the "VP system" its a loss. Huh?

Iīve seen people justify the VP system as a reflection of the political situation. If that was true how come some of the biggest political events of the war is hardly giving any VP points at all? Liberation of Paris and Rome. Surrender of Italy? For that you get a drop of VPs each turn. No big award, no headlines in the newspaper. Not even a popup. And my poor pilots? Apparently these poor bastards are considered expendable while the grunts on the ground is of major concern to the politicians? It makes no sense?

Bombing VPs. Same thing here. Only numbers. (feel free to correct me here if Iīm wrong. Some speculation on my part). As far as I can tell (based on my limited experience) the only thing that can actually effect the outcome of the war is manpower. All other things are plentiful. Germany wonīt run out of oil/fuel or anything else needed in the war effort. So you donīt bomb to weaken Germany. You bomb to gain VPs. Now if you really do wanted to bomb something that could effect Germany you donīt get any points for that. Aircraft factories or AFVs donīt give you any points in the "VP system". Huh?

Garrison VPs. Again. Absolutely no bearing on "The game" whatsoever. The Axis player has to meet them or get slapped with a massive VP penalty in the "VP system". But failure to meet them hardly does anything on map. Some rail damage which would be totally ignored if it wernīt for the VP penalties. Yet there are tremendous VP losses connected to this. Makes no sense.

All this things taken together makes me feel disconnected from the game. The VP system is a game within the game. And if you want to play MP you will have to play the VP system or lose. I realize (again) that not everyone works like this but I do. But when I play the VP-system it takes all the focus from the game.

I should be worried about my poor bomber crews getting shot down like flies but Iīm not because its not costing me anything. Same mechanic makes the Axis player do crazy attacks regardless of losses. Not to halt the WA advance or cover a retreat or anything remotely related to the war. He will do that just to incur VP losses in the VP system. Playing the VP system rather then the game. Why does the Axis player send most of the Luftwaffe to Hamburg in 43? Not because he wants to cover his U-boats because the war effort needs them. But because he is playing the VP system. Why doesnīt the WA player land in Italy? Because he is playing the VP system. The list is endless.

In the end all these big and small pieces kills the immersion for me. A VP system should be a reflection on whats happening in the game. It should be there in a background as a reflection on how the war is going.But its not in WitW. Instead it takes a front seat and dictates "the game". Its intrusive and it shouldnīt be like that.

In the end this probably isnīt the game for me. Its a shame because I badly wanted it to be.





< Message edited by JocMeister -- 2/19/2015 9:11:16 AM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 250
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/19/2015 8:33:24 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6214
Joined: 1/26/2005
From: Planning the end of the world, well out to 2023!
Status: offline
Excellent posts, I also do find myself "engaged" by the game. Unlike WITP & AE where I would also find myself "addicted" to a point where I was spending too much work time researching items.

Added to your comments, I dont like the 7 day turn, too much can ebb & flow within a week so at some times (around Invasions) you dont get the ability to react. Plotting a week of air missions also feels odd, especially after playing AE or Bombing the Reich. IMVHO there is nothing wrong with day/turn though I think 2-3 day turns may work better.

VP is scenarios are also odd, trying to make us replicate history instead of beating history eg Bulge to Rhine, VP are on offer for capturing cities on a broad front, try a narrow front, cross the Rhine with 6 Divisions and earn an Axis victory!!

Stacking is nerfed, 3 Brigades/Regiments or an SS Panzer Korps, both fit.

Smirfy has highlighted, repeatedly , many other failings which need looking at.

Hopefully, as often happens with GG designs, continued support by 2x3 and matrix will see things sorted out, else the game will join a couple of other Matrix offerings in the rarely played basket.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 251
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/19/2015 3:49:16 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Oh, forgot to mention. Game is on hold until the patch.

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 252
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/19/2015 4:46:46 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 1472
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline
What's the skinny on this bug?

If I just dropped 5 temp ports on mainland Italy and they didn't get any supply during the next logistics phase should I presume it is this bug?

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 253
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/19/2015 5:09:34 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

What's the skinny on this bug?

If I just dropped 5 temp ports on mainland Italy and they didn't get any supply during the next logistics phase should I presume it is this bug?


Yupp, thats it.

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 254
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/19/2015 6:40:43 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6214
Joined: 1/26/2005
From: Planning the end of the world, well out to 2023!
Status: offline
Testers probably restarted games so often that they didnt get that far.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 255
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/19/2015 6:49:35 PM   
NotOneStepBack


Posts: 844
Joined: 6/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

______________________________________________________________________________

Thoughts on the game so far. (Second impression) Continued...
______________________________________________________________________________

I donīt want to turn this post into another monologue about the VP system. But bear with me...

Besides the things I mentioned earlier about my dislike for certain aspects of the VP I think there is a bigger overall problem. Its connected to why I donīt care about the war but I do care about the VPs.

The VP system is like its own entity working outside the game itself. It has no real bearing or impact on the game besides deciding who wins or not. So you either play the game or you play the VP system. They are not a working together but rather against one and other. Or two different games. The "VP system" vs. "The Game".

Take the U-boat/V-Weapons for example. You only bomb them because you get a penalty within the VP system if you donīt. They have no real effect on the war at all. Its just numbers. There is nothing there to connect the VP penalties to the game. I can think of several small things that could have been done to make it feel more "real" and less abstract.

Combat losses. Same thing. Its just numbers within the VP system. Sure its a reflection on the losses you take on map. But it doesnīt effect the war one bit. In many cases its actually doing the opposite of what is happening within the game. Did you just surround and destroy 3 SS divisions? In "The game" this is a great victory that will seriously hurt the Axis player. But in the "VP system" its a loss. Huh?

Iīve seen people justify the VP system as a reflection of the political situation. If that was true how come some of the biggest political events of the war is hardly giving any VP points at all? Liberation of Paris and Rome. Surrender of Italy? For that you get a drop of VPs each turn. No big award, no headlines in the newspaper. Not even a popup. And my poor pilots? Apparently these poor bastards are considered expendable while the grunts on the ground is of major concern to the politicians? It makes no sense?

Bombing VPs. Same thing here. Only numbers. (feel free to correct me here if Iīm wrong. Some speculation on my part). As far as I can tell (based on my limited experience) the only thing that can actually effect the outcome of the war is manpower. All other things are plentiful. Germany wonīt run out of oil/fuel or anything else needed in the war effort. So you donīt bomb to weaken Germany. You bomb to gain VPs. Now if you really do wanted to bomb something that could effect Germany you donīt get any points for that. Aircraft factories or AFVs donīt give you any points in the "VP system". Huh?

Garrison VPs. Again. Absolutely no bearing on "The game" whatsoever. The Axis player has to meet them or get slapped with a massive VP penalty in the "VP system". But failure to meet them hardly does anything on map. Some rail damage which would be totally ignored if it wernīt for the VP penalties. Yet there are tremendous VP losses connected to this. Makes no sense.

All this things taken together makes me feel disconnected from the game. The VP system is a game within the game. And if you want to play MP you will have to play the VP system or lose. I realize (again) that not everyone works like this but I do. But when I play the VP-system it takes all the focus from the game.

I should be worried about my poor bomber crews getting shot down like flies but Iīm not because its not costing me anything. Same mechanic makes the Axis player do crazy attacks regardless of losses. Not to halt the WA advance or cover a retreat or anything remotely related to the war. He will do that just to incur VP losses in the VP system. Playing the VP system rather then the game. Why does the Axis player send most of the Luftwaffe to Hamburg in 43? Not because he wants to cover his U-boats because the war effort needs them. But because he is playing the VP system. Why doesnīt the WA player land in Italy? Because he is playing the VP system. The list is endless.

In the end all these big and small pieces kills the immersion for me. A VP system should be a reflection on whats happening in the game. It should be there in a background as a reflection on how the war is going.But its not in WitW. Instead it takes a front seat and dictates "the game". Its intrusive and it shouldnīt be like that.

In the end this probably isnīt the game for me. Its a shame because I badly wanted it to be.







Agreed 100% , but I still think it's a fun game.

< Message edited by NotOneStepBack -- 2/19/2015 7:54:47 PM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 256
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/19/2015 6:51:59 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15335
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Testers probably restarted games so often that they didnt get that far.


We don't allow testers to play games.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 257
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/19/2015 6:53:22 PM   
NotOneStepBack


Posts: 844
Joined: 6/17/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Testers probably restarted games so often that they didnt get that far.


This is true and not true. I did finish a game in beta as a tester and felt this way about the VPs as Joc did. However, the game spanned a few months in real time and there were new versions coming out almost daily. We upgraded throughout the game so we figured the VP system was going to be revamped or it changed so much during our game that we couldn't make a conclusion on it.

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 258
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/19/2015 10:44:53 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 4382
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline
As a tester, I know the first 20 turns of the 43 campaign REALLY well. I did, however, sneak three full games in - mostly during their holidays/vacations. Gamers will always find a way . . .

(in reply to NotOneStepBack)
Post #: 259
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/21/2015 5:58:00 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Meh. Server is down.

(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 260
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/21/2015 11:22:13 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
______________________________________________________________________________

Turn 3. April 1944
______________________________________________________________________________

Looks like the patch did fix the issue with lots of planes remaining on the ground. Not only that but all of the sudden the 8th fly against two different targets for the first time.

The 8th go deep into Germany hitting the HI at Stuttgart on Tuesday and Thursday. Saturday they hit an the HI at Braunschweig doing some good damage.

BC and the 15th continue to work over the Ruhr. Most of the industry there is knocked out already. The Manpower is proving tough to take out though despite the BC flying with incendiaries.

The 9th and 2nd RAF is taking out all the V-weapons in France and along the coast. Still losing 1-3 point per turn though. Add to the 3-5 VPs lost to garrisons and its starting to add up.

------------------------
The Med.
------------------------

Not much to report. Tactical is working over the first defensive line with little effect. Iīm moving up troops for a try at the defensive line. I have some good formations hidden behind my own line in case Pelton counterattacks.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 261
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/22/2015 8:18:58 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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______________________________________________________________________________

Turn 41. April 1944
______________________________________________________________________________

I keep struggling with motivation. Right now WitW just feels like an obstacle I have to get over before I can get back to WitE. Not having any fun right now.

Despite good bombing results I cannot get a positive VP as the garrison and V-Weapons eat up the bombing VPs. -4 to garrisons and -3 to V-Weapons. -67 in total.

------------------------
Europe
------------------------

The last of the huge reinforcements to the 8th arrive. I split them evenly between BC and the 15th. The Fighters arriving for the 9th is also split between BC and the 15th. They will be switched over to P38/P51s next turn. Some bomber trained P47s goes the 2nd RAF.

Last turn I did a massive recon over large parts of Germany. Result were...interesting. In the Ruhr Pelton is repairing the factories faster then BC and the 15th can bomb them. See lots of engineers in every hex including Italian ones.

Not sure if this is good or bad. Probably good as it gives me targets to hit close to home. Industry doesnīt seem to matter in WitW besides the VPs anyway. Pelton might actually be better off not repairing them just to deny me VPs.

Using the 2nd RAF and 9th to hit nothing but the V-Weapons I can never get ahead of the repairs. I therefore had to take BC off from hitting the Ruhr for 2 days to help with the V-W.

------------------------
The Med
------------------------

Troops move into position to hit the line next week. I will only do one attack to asses the VP loss before deciding if its worth it or not. Most likely there wonīt be a second attack.

No screens as I forgot to start up Fraps. Didnīt want to risk another crash.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 262
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/22/2015 12:50:50 PM   
marion61

 

Posts: 1602
Joined: 9/8/2011
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I know it's frustrating, but with each bug we find and patch put out, it makes the game better and better. I've been in MMO beta's since 2000, and no game with all that code will ever be perfect, but we "need to endeavor to persevere" (to much Outlaw Josey Wales), and help make it better. I like reading your aar's, do you really want to deny me?

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 263
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/22/2015 5:47:01 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
______________________________________________________________________________

Turn 42. April 1944
______________________________________________________________________________


------------------------
Europe
------------------------

Most of the British Isles are shut down with bad weather. Only the 8th and parts of the 15th take off from their bases. But strikes are few. Almost no damage dealt to the V-Weapons either due to the weather. This means most of them will be repaired by next turn and a big loss in VPs.

Troops are getting in place for D-day. Only waiting for the weather to clear now.

------------------------
The Med
------------------------

We attack an exposed unit in the defensive line and force them to retreat. Losses are light for both sides but heavier for the allies. I held off any other attack for now.

Back to WitE! Just lost Leningrad to the bloody German AI. I must truly suck!

(in reply to marion61)
Post #: 264
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/22/2015 7:06:59 PM   
marion61

 

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No Love?

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 265
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/22/2015 7:16:16 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meklore61

No Love?



(in reply to marion61)
Post #: 266
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/22/2015 10:40:46 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 15813
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: online
You are not making the case for me to geed WitW, but I am patient and look forward to some continuous improvement. I am hoping you change your mind with a successful d-day in France.

What is your setting for WITE? I started back up a pbem against my son (now that his schedule eased a little), but I think versus the AI is the better game as you can watch the AI attack and do their turn.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/22/2015 11:50:17 PM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 267
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/23/2015 4:42:36 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

You are not making the case for me to geed WitW, but I am patient and look forward to some continuous improvement. I am hoping you change your mind with a successful d-day in France.

What is your setting for WITE? I started back up a pbem against my son (now that his schedule eased a little), but I think versus the AI is the better game as you can watch the AI attack and do their turn.


Yeah, sadly my initial impressions have certainly made a 180 once I got deeper into the game. A finial "review" of the game is in the making but I want to play a few more turns before posting it.

Iīm playing on 120 (axis) and 90 (SU) in WitE. The AI will clean out Leningrad but is stopped dead around Moscow. Progress in the south is pretty bad though. The AI still havnīt made it past the Dneipr. Mud is only a turn or two away. Having a lot of fun though. Its very obvious this is what the engine was built for and everything not making sense in WitW suddenly works beautifully in WitE. The air system...not so much though.

I will probably try and find a WitE PBEM against someone green after I finished this game with Pelton.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 268
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/23/2015 6:23:56 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
______________________________________________________________________________

Allied Strategic Bombers
______________________________________________________________________________

Here is a screen of my current setup. With the LW pretty much out of the equation I will probably move all the British bombers back to BC in a couple of turns.






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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 269
RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(... - 2/23/2015 8:16:46 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8261
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
______________________________________________________________________________

Turn 43. April 1944
______________________________________________________________________________


------------------------
Europe
------------------------

Weather is still bad with rain over the entire continent. With big well escorted strike no longer being necessary I let the 8th, BC and 15th fly multiple raids per day. The 8th and BC are now flying 4 days per week as well. Losses go up slightly but its pretty clear the LW is no longer a threat. No doubt Pelton holds them back for the inevitable landing.

I organize the ground forces and move them into position. 2nd RAF will redeploy to their forward bases next turn.

With weather still being bad we hit the Ruhr again. BC and 15th lend a hand in trying to suppress the V-Weapons. Iīm loosing control of the situation as they seem to repair almost over night. Next turn I will probably have to let the 15th, 9th and 2nd RAF devote the entire week to just hitting V-Weapons. Up until now I have "only" had the 9th + 2nd RAF and Fighter Command do the work. Apparently its not enough as I lose another 4 VPs this turn.

Sadly the screen of the 8th attack this turn didnīt "stick". But you can see BC and the 15th attack.

------------------------
Italy
------------------------

My small attack last turn cost me -3 VPs despite being successful and suffering low losses.




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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 270
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