Planes, Trains and Automobiles

[Smirfy]

I am enjoying the Airpower feature of the game more as a sandbox at the minute than anything I can really understand . But Im really at a total loss with regards Interdiction on land and railway and railyard bombing. Should there not simply have been a "Transport Plan" box and it incapacitates commerce through that area by whatever degree dependant on factor like attack strength and weather? Im working on stopping the teleporting AI or aleast trying to give it a limp but inderdiction seems rather useless or to be more correct non existant

[HMSWarspite]

You have switched on the option to view interdiction? The little green circles with numbers in are the interdiction level in a hex (there can also be blue ones for Axis, on the sea). The effect can vary from nothing (no cicle at all) to 0-9 (I think). I dont know about the AI cheat moves, but I have seen a Panzer div move through a few 9's and lose strength like no man's business...

[Smirfy]

Yes and am interdicting at the max, waste of time. I think just give it box like everything else.

[MechFO]

Try playing as Axis.

At the moment the battle of Normandy is impossible because the troops could never reach the area without being destroyed.

[Smirfy]

As the Allies in Italy it does nothing to the Axis

[Smirfy]

For example I have been playing Italy again and putting extreme pressure on the Gustav line without getting into a verdun (because allied artillery is useless) Ie fiegning to attack and the AI shifts units usually his best to match you. The Gustav ;line consists of all his grade 1 divisions. I launch Shingle which goes beyond my wildest expectations and take Rome in 2 turns with my landing forces. The Axis still man the Gustav line with all their good dvisions. The next turn the forces manning the Gustav Line teleport (despite my airforce) into a perfect line North of Rome from the Med to the Adriactic. Belief is just suspended. I know the AI needs help but this stuff is nonsense its not even an incremental retreat its just beam us up. ZOC, Rail lines damage airforces interdiction etc all count for nowt!

[Kumppi]

AI is impacted by the interdiction values during normal movement, but not at the end of the turn movement when it tries to even out the front line. I guess this is also when most of the teleportation issues happen that is units escaping encirclements.

[Smirfy]

Its hilairious one German division actually was left behind at the Gustav line and is nearly home safe though cut off and not motorized it is outrunning my ground units

[joey]

I, too, have seen little to no value in interdiction of land units. I have seen it make a difference in naval areas, but land units seem to be immune to any impact from interdiction.
Italy is a prime example. The Wehrmacht simply reforms itself north of any invasion the allies can do.
I have not tried an invasion in Tuscany, but in ever instance of an invasion south of there, the Wehrmacht simply moved its entire army north to create a line across the entire peninsula. This occurs independent of the amount of interdiction.
I was wondering how this was happening. Thanks, for your insight, Kumppi.

[Nico165b165]

Interdiction certainly has some value.

Try this, play breakout and pursuit :

1) With ground attack AD's (the default AD's at the start are already good)
2) Without thoses ground attack

In the second case, you'll find a lot of your attacks will fail because some reserve german units will come to the rescue and tip the balance enough to avoid losing the hex. It may be enough for you to lose several weeks.

In the first case, odds are you won't see any reinforcement coming to the rescue, leading to an early breakout in 1 or 2 turns.

So the tactical value of interdiction certainly exists. But maybe some tweaking is needed on the strategical side.

[Smirfy]

I cant see any value, Had to use about 10 divisions to finally stop my wandering cut off German division. Cut off for 5 weeks now, is that some kind of record? Attack with 90,000 men and plenty of tanks backed by pee shooters (as the Tommies and GI call Allied artillery) and the Air Farce as they call their brothers in the sky. Guess what happened my attack is repelled,? So in My game I have teleporting units to whom nothing I do applies and a Death Star behind my lines.

Fix list

1/ AI teleports
2/ Fix interdiction and other things that actually should effect the game
3/ Death Star wandering pockets
4/ Give the Allies artillery units and make the Attachments ammo
5/ Try to do something with the naval move picking up units you dont want to
6/ Scale the RAF and Luftwaffe to Wings and Gruppen
7/ More Air Headquarters prefarably Group so as you can forget about certain things like naval patrol
8/ Give Polish units a new colour something Red and White would be nice

[Baelfiin]

post some screenshots so I can see what you see

[HMSWarspite]

What is your issue with Allied artillery? you have mentioned it in 3 threads now. Either be specific about your issue, or stop dangling it until someone bites. Yes, the units summary indicates that the Axis have more tubes, but it also indicates they have more men...

What is it you think is happening that shouldn't, or isn't that should with respect to artillery?

Oh, and comparing W Allies with Soviets on use of artillery formations is spurious, they had completely different capabilities and philosophies...

[HMSWarspite]

ORIGINAL: Smirfy


I cant see any value, Had to use about 10 divisions to finally stop my wandering cut off German division. Cut off for 5 weeks now, is that some kind of record? Attack with 90,000 men and plenty of tanks backed by pee shooters (as the Tommies and GI call Allied artillery) and the Air Farce as they call their brothers in the sky. Guess what happened my attack is repelled,? So in My game I have teleporting units to whom nothing I do applies and a Death Star behind my lines.

Fix list
...

5/ Try to do something with the naval move picking up units you dont want to

What? I think you need to explain.

6/ Scale the RAF and Luftwaffe to Wings and Gruppen

Why?

7/ More Air Headquarters prefarably Group so as you can forget about certain things like naval patrol

How is Naval Patrol linked to the number of HQ? I presume you mean RAF Group not US Group? But all the same, you need to explain your point.

8/ Give Polish units a new colour something Red and White would be nice

Really? This is your number 8 on the improvement lists? But BC being a 100% Lancaster force by summer 1943 isn't?

Am I the only one who does not get what Smirfy is on about?




[/quote]

[RedLancer]

1. If you see it happening post a pre-save and we'll fix.
2. I think your problem lies with the AI's necessary flex. Try playing as Axis and you'll see it works.
3. Not sure what you mean.
4. I agree with HMSWarspite - Allied Artillery has coded bonuses over the Axis. What is the problem?
5. Fixed and waiting for next patch release.
6. LW have Gruppe already. RAF Wings will not happen with mixed aircraft types. It is already possible if the 'community' is happy with homogeneous Wings.
7. You can have ten more unless Helpless re-jigs the GUI (and I have asked). If you are playing the 43 GC with AI only I can add a couple of Groups (201 & 242) to help you out.
8. Morvael chose the Yellow as it was the colour used in Polish Wargames - I'll do a mod of the 'set' I use (different fort and AA symbols) just for you.

Finally have you considered joining the darkside of testing? If you feel this strongly you are better in the tent....

[Smirfy]

1/ Its happening and not for the first time its every game!In Small scenarios its the Messina and Brindisi teleport in Italy its the Gustav line getting beamed up the leg.
2/ Then there is no AI and no feature set. I have not got round to playing the Axis and I doubt I will
3/ Pockets of German units isolated can wander round the map and cant be destroyed even with massive ahistorical combinations put against them. Surviving for five weeks in the west on the move holding off 90,000 troops is plain dumb. Sure Like I said before in a port or City with a load of supply I dont have a problem.
4/ The problem is it cant shift anything so its pretty dull and apart from petrol the biggest single drag on Allied advances was not enough artillery ammunition. This is singulary not reflected in game. One does not expect to shift 1st grade German formations well dug in easily but my combat results have been "whats the point" against third rate troops
7/ Great, air apart from the invaision mechanics is this games strong suit it needs somemore refinement but mechanics wise its heading the right direction
8/ Did you ask him what colour the Italians were in Polish wargames

I have got a nine you will be glad to know, or 9 if you like units that are forced to retreat dont suffer enough attrition of fatigue, morale, equipment, desertion etc etc etc. I would take a look at that. I have not played a scenario with a single Lancaster in it so nope it did not make the list till now but Im delighted we have a round 10 to be going on with.

I would consider testing if you think you can suffer me My standpoint with computer games is they should have a good interface (WiE&W are pretty good in that regards) The AI needs protecting but it needs to be done believably that means "The player" has to operate in gravity and World War II has some good gravity like logistics, distance,command control and I think in WitE&W "the player" gets too much licence which then leads to the AI having to cheat too obviously. As far as units go in games of this scale and size its important to balance ease of play against micromanagement so I always come down on the ease of play side against having squadrons because two marks of Spitfires had a speed differental of 5 mph. And I dont believe sealion was ever seriously considered. Thats basically my philosopy when it comes to testing

[RedLancer]

Firstly so we start on the right note the new counters are attached to this post. Unzip to the Art/Units directory but backup the counters files. [:)]

1. I'm not arguing that it may be happening but we need pre-saves so that we can repeat what you see. The AI walks a thin line but out and out cheating is a no no.
2. Please play Breakout and Pursuit - the system does work.
3. I understand your frustration but you do need to isolate and destroy these units - ignoring them is not an option.
4. Is this Arty related or a wider reflection on the combat engine? Italy is really tough due to the terrain.
7. A modder could easily reverse engineer to Wings. I doubt el hefe and I have the time or inclination to do so. I don't think the sticking point was aircraft marks rather Types - 244 Wing had both Tomahawks and Spitfires.

Your '9' makes me smile - a thousand WitE posts that retreat losses were too much and the combat engine was broken.

With regard to Sealion I tend to agree but the Axis fanboys do like to dream - the best option is to allow it to be launched and have the game balanced to make it lunacy against all but the most incompetent player.

[carlkay58]

AI balancing is one of the most difficult tasks in any game. The more sophisticated and complex the game, the worse the task gets. You will find that there will be many AI improvements in each of the updates that will be released.

[wokelly]

Is it worth rail bombing if you want to cut off supply, or should I just use interdiction. I'm trying to cut off supplies to German forces at the toe and heel of the Italian boot before I invade. I'm trying to cut their CV by starving them of some supply.

[carlkay58]

Rail bombing works well in cutting the amount of supply freight that can be shipped up. Interdiction will only stop the trucks from the railhead going into the front lines. Interdiction is also a lost cause and impossible to do in the Italian terrain but very nice in France.