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usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/16/2014 10:31:44 PM   
jjax


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The videos were nicely produced but I found them a little hard to follow. I found that the person didn't always explain the things they were doing. On top of that, I had to rewind several times so I could follow along. I might be old fashion, but I much rather a written tutorial if no interactive tutorial is provided...maybe something to keep in mind for the future.

< Message edited by jjax -- 12/16/2014 11:32:11 PM >


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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/16/2014 10:46:03 PM   
Nico165b165


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Have you seen the one page guides in the players handbook ?

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/16/2014 10:49:46 PM   
jjax


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Yes, they are nicely done and I have used them..I'm talking about something that brings everything together though. Kinnda of like something that holds your hand and tells you what you do on turn 1, turn 2 ... now have some fun. WITE had a nice written one if I recall correctly.

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/17/2014 1:08:30 PM   
FroBodine


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I agree with jjax. A comprehensive tutorial that walks the player through a few turns of the game, telling them exactly what to do in each phase, is the most useful tutorial there can be.

The videos and one page guides are excellent, but very, very basic, and are still a little hard to follow. Especially the supply one-page guide. What the heck is that flowchart trying to tell me.

If you could please consider an interactive tutorial, or even a tutorial guidebook like the VERY excellent Flashpoint Campaigns tutorial, where the player actually makes the moves at the instruction of the tutorial, through a few complete turns of the game, that would be the best thing you could ever do.

The basics are just that, basic, and can be figured out without too much effort. It's the details that need splainin', and is what is desperately needed. Again, the Flashpoint Campaigns tutorial guidebook is the best in the genre, and should be the reference standard for wargame tutorials.

Thank you!

< Message edited by jglazier -- 12/17/2014 5:36:44 PM >

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/17/2014 3:00:06 PM   
gerardo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I agree with jjax. A comprehensive tutorial that walks the player through a few turns of the game, telling them exactly what to do in each phase, is the most useful tutorial there can be.

The videos and one page guides are excellent, but very, very basic, and are still a little hard to follow. Especially the supply one-page guide. What the heck is that flowchart trying to tell me.

If you could please consider an interactive tutorial where the player actually makes the moves at the instruction of the tutorial, through a few complete turns of the game, that would be the best thing you could ever do.

Thank you!



+ 1

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/17/2014 9:00:14 PM   
Grestok


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Yes + 1 ! I just bought witw and I also need a more descriptive tutorial !


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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/17/2014 9:07:25 PM   
jnpoint


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I would love that too!

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/17/2014 9:21:26 PM   
ncarson

 

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I agree. Time is really important to me, as I have little time to actually play. And while the "Handbook" seems to be well received, I had a hard time with that as well. For example, maybe I understand this wrong, but the first one, #10 (On map counters) has explanations that seem to have no relation to what they are explaining. As in "in the example above (I guess they mean beside) both units have a cv of 4". I don't see ANY with that value, and the only "4"'s on the pics of at least 12 units are in something that says 2=4! What 12=36 etc means is never explained, but it seems to mean offensive and defensive values, and "4-36 shows the number of movement points" is incomprehensible to me.

Now I really like these kind of games, and would gladly pay $25 more for a detailed tutorial walk thru, which the videos are definitely NOT. IT took me several passes to see things like clicking on "road move" for a couple of hex moves, and then on the port to sea move. This, in a game of this scope is like Ike telling the troops to "be sure you get into the vehicles when you are on the road, but get onto the ships when you see the port, and don't forget to get out of the vehicles before you get on the ships." Too radical a change of scale-scope.
Anyway, I really like the awesome scope of the game, just wish I could spend my time in battle rather than looking for the keys to the jeep...

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/17/2014 10:39:02 PM   
henri51


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I think the problem may be that 1)there are mostly two kinds of players, those who have played WiTE and remember how to play and those who have not; 2) the fact that the game is strongly oriented toward air power and amphibious operations, which for newbies is a totally different brand of game. Players who are used to just push cardboard counters (real or virtual) around can find the amount of details a bit overwhelming. Sure the player aids are useful, and assuming I can remember everything, I probably will find it simple once I have read the manual.

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/17/2014 11:36:13 PM   
FroBodine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncarson

I agree. Time is really important to me, as I have little time to actually play. And while the "Handbook" seems to be well received, I had a hard time with that as well. For example, maybe I understand this wrong, but the first one, #10 (On map counters) has explanations that seem to have no relation to what they are explaining. As in "in the example above (I guess they mean beside) both units have a cv of 4". I don't see ANY with that value, and the only "4"'s on the pics of at least 12 units are in something that says 2=4! What 12=36 etc means is never explained, but it seems to mean offensive and defensive values, and "4-36 shows the number of movement points" is incomprehensible to me.

Now I really like these kind of games, and would gladly pay $25 more for a detailed tutorial walk thru, which the videos are definitely NOT. IT took me several passes to see things like clicking on "road move" for a couple of hex moves, and then on the port to sea move. This, in a game of this scope is like Ike telling the troops to "be sure you get into the vehicles when you are on the road, but get onto the ships when you see the port, and don't forget to get out of the vehicles before you get on the ships." Too radical a change of scale-scope.
Anyway, I really like the awesome scope of the game, just wish I could spend my time in battle rather than looking for the keys to the jeep...


ncarson - your example of the incorrect counter values is exactly what I posted on this forum as soon as they made the one page guides available for viewing. There are bugs even in these guides. They did not QA the text thoroughly. It is unfortunate that they printed with these errors, but alas.

I also agree that they could have done a MUCH better job of explaining exactly what every number and icon means on each and every counter. Again, they just quickly give an overview of what on the counters, but in no detail at all, and there needs to be a big counter graphic with callouts pointing to exactly what each number and picture mean. For all different types of counters you will ever see in the game.

This is the level of detail that is needed, and is sorely lacking in this and most every wargame manual.

I point you to the Flashpoint Campaigns manual. That is nearly perfect, and should be the reference standard for every wargame manual.

I hope these guys will add more one-page guides, more tutorials, and a complete tutorial that takes us through entire multiple turns of a game (not Husky), and teaches newbies how to play. After all, tutorials are mainly for newbies, not the pros who have many hours in WitE already.


< Message edited by jglazier -- 12/18/2014 12:37:20 AM >

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/17/2014 11:44:49 PM   
bairdlander


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The only thing I don't understand from this counter is the 9/15




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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/17/2014 11:48:52 PM   
KWG


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9 hexs from HQ. 15 max Hex(army HQ) to be in good command range. Its 5 hex max for corp HQ

< Message edited by KWG -- 12/18/2014 12:50:38 AM >

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/18/2014 7:21:25 AM   
jnpoint


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The only persons who can help us with this hasn't said anything. Are you planning to help us out or not?

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/18/2014 7:40:53 AM   
bairdlander


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The forum community is your helper/guide.Post your questions here and you will get a response.

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/18/2014 5:50:58 PM   
leftydad

 

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I too was having difficulty learning WITW from just the video tutorials. But then I watched this 68 minute walkthrough video, and it really helped me learn the game. It's the best video for a Grisby game I've seen for the newbie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d49UIDG1y4


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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/18/2014 6:25:27 PM   
Joel Billings


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I made the tutorial videos. They were originally made over a year ago with the goal being to get what were mostly WitE players to quickly understand the major new rules (amphib/airborne and the air AD system). With that in mind it's true that we assumed most players knew how to move units around and attack. By the time the game art (and rules) was in shape and ready for final tutorials, I only had a few weeks left before release and there was a lot going on (to put it mildly). By this point we knew we had the Player's Handbook to help get people into the game, so I focused on just getting the original videos updated. Erik suggested adding in a logistics video to point out a few key items, so I managed to get that done just prior to release. There's always a chance I could find time to do another video in the future, but I don't have any plans at the moment. The old rule of thumb was no tutorial video longer than about 5 minutes. It sounds like some of you want a very long video that runs through an entire turn. There's so much to cover, I'm not really sure what it is you want to see. On the other hand, it appears that some of you want a simple video that just shows how you click on units and move them and launch hasty and deliberate attacks.

If I was going to make another video, I'd have to have a better idea of exactly who is the target of the video and what should be covered. Of course, if there's someone out there willing and able to create a video, we'd be happy to see some other videos. In the meantime, the forum is a great place for you to ask all your questions as there are a lot of helpful people here interested in helping fellow gamers understand the game.

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/18/2014 8:33:42 PM   
henri51


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I don't think what most (new) players need is a video showing how to move and attack (except possibly from an amphibious invasion). But for example how to use some of the charts like the Commander's report (for those not too familiar with WiTE) or perhaps a step by step walk through a typical move. Some players (including me who has played WiTE a long time ago and forgotten a lot) find themselves with not much of a clue about what to do next after the invasion. I suspect that as more videos from players come online (and after reading the manuals), this will become less necessary.

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/18/2014 9:23:54 PM   
FroBodine


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I don't think a long video tutorial is required, but I would love to watch some Let's Plays on Youtube if some folks ever make them.

I would much rather have a tutorial guide like the Flashpoint Campaigns tutorial. Again, I think it is the best tutorial I have seen in a wargame. Joel - if you have time, please take a look at their tutorial guidebook. It steps the play through doing everything for quite a number of entire game turns. It is pretty detailed, and teaches you how to do almost everything. Granted, their game is not as complicated, but that is even more reason why WitW needs this level of detail in a tutorial. Because it is so complicated.

I think you have to cater to folks who have never played WitE before, and are coming at this kind of monster game fresh.

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RE: usefulness of tutorial videos - 12/18/2014 9:28:04 PM   
jnpoint


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quote:

ORIGINAL: henri51

I don't think what most (new) players need is a video showing how to move and attack (except possibly from an amphibious invasion). But for example how to use some of the charts like the Commander's report (for those not too familiar with WiTE) or perhaps a step by step walk through a typical move. Some players (including me who has played WiTE a long time ago and forgotten a lot) find themselves with not much of a clue about what to do next after the invasion. I suspect that as more videos from players come online (and after reading the manuals), this will become less necessary.


Yes to what henri51 says. But I would also like to see something about production and production change, something about updating to newer models, something about logistics - supply and replacements, I find it hard to find the information of all this and understand it. And what about the trucks? How do I use them right? Can I relocate trucks? Or how does it work? I know that this is a bit messy, but I hope you understand what I see as a problem. Yes, I haven't read the manual yet, it's quite comprehensive, so I might get some of the answers there. This was just my opinion.

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