Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 12/13/2014 4:39:30 AM   
sufa101loofa


Posts: 46
Joined: 8/7/2013
From: Las Vegas, NV
Status: offline
I was wondering what steps would it take to "surprise" a Jap CV task force in late May 1942?

_____________________________

We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender...Winston Churchill
Post #: 1
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 12/13/2014 4:51:39 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10370
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
The most important factor is luck.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to sufa101loofa)
Post #: 2
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 12/13/2014 1:32:31 PM   
John B.


Posts: 2140
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
Luck certainly helps. But, you can increase your odds by doing all you can to shield your CVs from his search aircraft. When you're moving CVs stay far away from his land bases. And, remember that some of his subs have search aircraft so stay away from obvious ports. he won't know where you are (and only a few places where you aren't). In the meantime, you know he's coming at you so you can move your carriers in that direction be it Darwin, Fiji, Midway or where ever you want to try to spring the surprise. At the same time, your own search aircraft should be able to keep the KBs in your sights. The information advantage you can get does not always work, but it does increase the odds. And, since the IJN needs to split up carriers to support as many invasions as possible, you might be able to overwhelm one of his carrier task forces.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 3
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 12/14/2014 12:22:49 AM   
Coach Zuck

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 12/25/2002
From: Long Island NY
Status: offline
Luck, sheer unadulterated luck!

In my current game vs Floyd of Tracker fame, in Feb of 42 I knew there was a high chance of a carrier battle as I had spotted him and he had not spotted my carriers.... he got the best of a carrier exchange in late Feb 42 - oh by the way he's the Allied Player! The Soryu & Hiryu (in a separate TF) slowed up to refuel thier Destroyes and choose not to launch any bombers @ range 7. (C'mon Yamaguchi!)

Oh he lost 1 carrier with one badly damaged (if not sunk) and another with a few scratches, while I lost two carriers.

< Message edited by Coach Zuck -- 12/14/2014 1:24:03 AM >

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 4
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 1/8/2015 4:38:29 AM   
1EyedJacks


Posts: 2244
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: The Eastern Sierras
Status: offline
Broadcast in the clear that the base closest to where you want to spring your trap is having problems with its water purification system... :-)


_____________________________

TTFN,

Mike

(in reply to sufa101loofa)
Post #: 5
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 1/8/2015 10:10:26 AM   
Itdepends

 

Posts: 954
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline
Pre battle detection of the enemy TF while yours remain unseen

(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 6
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 1/8/2015 3:05:48 PM   
Amoral

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/28/2010
Status: offline
Getting surprise requires the Japanese player to do things wrong more than it requires you to do things right. This isn't really a factor under your control.

I guess "Pick an inexperienced or lazy opponent" could be put on your checklist.

(in reply to Itdepends)
Post #: 7
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 1/8/2015 3:08:28 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24484
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
Weather seems to be a common variable that may result in one-sided exchanges. Granted, that's 'luck' (or selective settings in game options), but it's more specific than general 'luck'. Many examples of one side's fleet being mauled by an opponent that successfully hides in a squall.

_____________________________


(in reply to Amoral)
Post #: 8
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 1/16/2015 9:13:01 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
I agree with weather. I agree it depends a bit on the player. You also need a really tempting target. One that is so tempting the Japanese player will stick his neck out for it.

_____________________________


Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 9
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/10/2015 2:44:18 AM   
leehunt27@bloomberg.net


Posts: 532
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline
I would also think if you can lure the Japanese into setting their bombers to attack a land target, and then having your allied CV's sweep later in the day you might get a chance at a surprise strike with little counter attack. Weather does play a critical role. My opponent surprised my KB, damaged or sunk most of it, and his CV task force hid in a squall and survived virtually unscathed. Fortunately that was late 1943 at least...

_____________________________

John 21:25

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 10
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/10/2015 4:49:51 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 6062
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
I'm going to go with luck. Planning helps, recon is a must, but luck is primary. I've played this since WitP, lord knows how many games, I have only had 1 instance where I actually bushwhacked KB. Usually it's the other way around And even my one time cost me an entire convoy of troops & supplies to reinforce Noumea.

(in reply to leehunt27@bloomberg.net)
Post #: 11
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/10/2015 5:15:22 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14434
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
I have done it only once against a real player...in WITP Vanilla. I was a rookie playing against a VERY experienced player , and I think to some degree he badly underestimated me. It was near Noumeau , early in 1942 (I seem to recall May). I had all five CV's there , a lot of LBA , especially PBY's and CV capable aircraft (this was important). Weather was perfect over him , spotty over me , and he had no LBA support. His KB came too close and I got off a perfect "Alpha Strike" , with everyone flying , attacking , and making lots of hits. His CAP devasted my CV air groups , which went ashore , and the USMC CV types came in and mauled what was left. My old PH BB's were docked nearby , and while my CV's refueled and re-armed at a nearby island (where I had stashed my AE's and AO's), my surface ships hunted down and killed survivors. That was the luckiest action I've ever had , and never again had anything approaching it for success. The KB and all escorts , as well as an invasion group behind it were totally and absolutely annihilated, and I had three CV's damaged (which thanks to having AR's nearby , all were saved). We called the game at that point. I'll never see that again.

_____________________________

VP-92 sig banner

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 12
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/10/2015 5:21:58 PM   
Mundy


Posts: 2645
Joined: 6/26/2002
From: Neenah
Status: offline
Same here.  Mine was near Ndini, while I had a major landing there.  KB's planes got distracted by all the pretty transports.

I lost one carrier and KB got wiped out  -- completely.

I did lose another CV to a single sub launched torpedo the next day.    I think a midget struck a third around that time in harbor, too.

_____________________________


(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 13
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/11/2015 3:41:51 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3579
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
One thing that happened at Midway that the game just does not allow to happen ...The bungling of deciding on armament
So If I set Naval Attack with a secondary mission of ground attack .. I know of no penalty to do so? So if targets
appear that is the mission otherwise without penalty the ground attack happens

The advanced weather option turns earth into the planet Hoth (star wars fame) so it is more likely the float planes
will be grounded. A good number of players will put planes on recon from the attack groups that negate this feature.

More abstractly .. lots of transports and other targets might soak off IJ platforms so the USN might survive for more
than one strike ... however, this might also bring about a whole controversy about being gamey .. a player Canoerebel
once put some AKL's in front of his TF's and that brought on opinions ..

In short WitpAE is not a simulation and players that think this are at a disadvantage to those that understand game
mechanics .. Trying for a Midway surprise will likely end in disaster .. a la Cuttlefish who really was not looking for trouble ..



_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Mundy)
Post #: 14
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/12/2015 1:50:18 AM   
walkerd


Posts: 184
Joined: 10/7/2004
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

I would also think if you can lure the Japanese into setting their bombers to attack a land target


I am going with this. You know there are no enemy carriers around, expecting limited land based aircraft you set your strike aircraft to Airfield Attack as the Primary Mission.

_____________________________

"Carpe diem" - Seize the day!

"Carpe Cerevisi" - Seize the beer!

(in reply to leehunt27@bloomberg.net)
Post #: 15
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/12/2015 11:04:43 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 6464
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: walkerd


quote:

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

I would also think if you can lure the Japanese into setting their bombers to attack a land target


I am going with this. You know there are no enemy carriers around, expecting limited land based aircraft you set your strike aircraft to Airfield Attack as the Primary Mission.


Agreed. This is what the IJN did at Midway.

In game terms MOST players would play it safe and set NAV as primary and wait until afternoon to strike the base.

The IJN struck Midway in the morning, which in game terms means it was the primary attack with NO NAV attack setting.

I also tend to agree with Alfred.

One needs find an opponent who either doesn't know enough to set NAV as primary with Airfield as secondary or one who is so brash he throws caution to the wind.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to walkerd)
Post #: 16
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/14/2015 11:24:55 AM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sufaloofa
I was wondering what steps would it take to "surprise" a Jap CV task force in late May 1942?


The exact same as at Midway, catching your opponent when he does not expect your carriers to appear, and a significant number of his planes is devoted to other missions than Naval Strike/CAP. I accomplished this in PBEMs twice so far, and was on the receiving end once, in all three cases the surprised carrier force was soundly crushed. Important tips to accomplish this include measuring the range of the enemy's air search and keeping your carriers beyond it until the final rush, and running your carrier groups in a stealth mode, without naval search or ASW patrols from the decks, so that your opponent won't deduce their presence from sudden detection and attacks on his patrolling subs.

< Message edited by FatR -- 3/14/2015 12:27:16 PM >


_____________________________

The Reluctant Admiral mod team.

Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to sufa101loofa)
Post #: 17
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/14/2015 1:52:50 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 16090
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
Hey Stanislav!

I've done it twice. Once to the Southern Paddler by hitting and sinking two US CVs from extreme range and once against Adm Nelson in the IO. Lost Hiryu and sank 4 American CVs. It ROCKED!

_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to FatR)
Post #: 18
RE: How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? - 3/15/2015 3:31:09 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 5511
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

so it is more likely the float planes
will be grounded. A good number of players will put planes on recon from the attack groups that negate this feature.


So for me at least I get the message 'strike mission cancelled due to weather' for the float planes (if its float planes you're referring to here).



_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 19
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> How to achieve a "Midway" type surprise? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.139