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Invasion of USSR

 
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Invasion of USSR - 12/3/2014 11:54:23 AM   
Joseignacio


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I tend to invade USSR in mar/apr when possible but, supposing you can't..

Would you invade USSR in jul/aug'41? If you couldn't would you at sep/oct '41? Or would you prefer to wait for spring '42?

Why?
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RE: Invasion of USSR - 12/3/2014 1:21:07 PM   
composer99


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Personally, I would invade in 1941 anytime up to July/August. Starting in September/October is IMO too late as you're getting into the bad weather which will slow down the offensive and make attacks harder.

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RE: Invasion of USSR - 12/3/2014 1:23:50 PM   
Joseignacio


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Yes, but wouldn't the offensive be more paralized if we wait till '42?

(in reply to composer99)
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RE: Invasion of USSR - 12/3/2014 3:04:42 PM   
Cohen

 

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Personally I favor to seize Spain / Gibraltar / Suez (Wishful thinking from Axis side) and Barbarossa in '42.
In '41 I think the Axis is way too weak to deal with the Soviets and that the Soviets can easily stop the Germans (Especially with the ZOC on surprise round).

Spain - and Portugal by design choice have 2 Red Factories and a total of 5 Resources (vs 1 Free Resource from Spain). Which is a huge bump up to Germany economy.
Axis keeps benefitting of Soviet Resources and Oil - yes it costs 2 BPs.
Soviets do not get the push up in production by having Axis units in their motherland / attacking their units.
Probably Axis aligns some minors in '42, that come along with the '42 units for free (Romania has a mech, not strong but still a mech in plains!)
Axis in general has 1 more year to deal vs UK alone for the most, and try to inflict punishment against said opponent; possibly locking the mediterranean.

By what I saw that Germany can field for 'Summer '41, I deem the forces totally insufficient to push for a Barbarossa and achieve a sensible result.
Also in Jan / Feb and Mar / Apr '42 Axis production, pumped via added Spain resources can eventually afford 1 O-Chit per turn.
Assuming you saved one since game start (and used one in Spain), that would mean Germany has 1 O-Chit per 3 turns in a row, to crack three defensive lines of the Soviets.

(in reply to Joseignacio)
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RE: Invasion of USSR - 12/3/2014 3:41:13 PM   
composer99


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Yes, but wouldn't the offensive be more paralized if we wait till '42?


Perhaps.

But it depends on what the Axis was doing in 1941. If the Axis was spinning its wheels trying to break the pact, and manages to do so in the fall, and got nothing else done (i.e. no invasion of UK, or conquest of Spain/Gib), then the Axis is in a bad position.

If, on the other hand, the Axis has accomplished something worthwhile in 1941, in 1942 it can go in secure in the knowledge it has out-produced the USSR in the interim, weakened the CW, strengthened the Italians (who might have, say, a larger contribution à la Super Balbo, to make to the invasion), and still has a larger army and air force in play than the USSR. (Plus the Luftwaffe in 1942 is still far superior to the Red Army Air Force.)

In either the 1941 or 1942 start, the Axis does best, IMO, if it has as much good weather as possible to take factory cities and slaughter the Red Army.

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RE: Invasion of USSR - 12/3/2014 3:44:31 PM   
composer99


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen
In '41 I think the Axis is way too weak to deal with the Soviets and that the Soviets can easily stop the Germans (Especially with the ZOC on surprise round).

By what I saw that Germany can field for 'Summer '41, I deem the forces totally insufficient to push for a Barbarossa and achieve a sensible result.


That's definitely not my experience.

It really goes to show how wildly different (M)WiF can be to different players.

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(in reply to Cohen)
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RE: Invasion of USSR - 12/3/2014 3:48:33 PM   
Centuur


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I really don't know the answer on this question. A quite disastrous trick the USSR has at hand is to DoW the Japanese (or the Italians) and start withdrawing units from the border to minimise the effects of a German surprise impulse. If the first frontline of the USSR is three or four hexes inland and not on the border, the German surprise impulse becomes pretty useless.

Is the USSR player capable enough to do this (US entry suffers a little by this gambit)? If so, I would go to war in fine weather or snow whatever the turn I'm in, since I need to kill Russian units in the first turn of the war. I probably would limit the action to Poland in that first turn, because of the production boost of an attack or an in supply unit in the USSR proper...


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Peter

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RE: Invasion of USSR - 12/3/2014 8:58:07 PM   
Cohen

 

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That is the case of what my opponent has done currently.
There is only a veil of ZOC creating units on the front - in cities / woods / etc; with all the other units well bunkered behind the Dnepr and other riverlines.

That is a setback of the 1942 Barbarossa start. Soviets see you go in Spain and for Suez, and simply pull back.
The problem is that if I DoW them during winter, well they get also all their reserves in and reinforce even more their lines behind the rivers by the time I get there.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 8
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