Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Pelton(GHC) vs Saper Resigned GHC Victory T-36

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> Pelton(GHC) vs Saper Resigned GHC Victory T-36 Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Pelton(GHC) vs Saper Resigned GHC Victory T-36 - 11/11/2014 1:39:15 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
1941 GC Sudden Death or Alt VC260
Server game
Locked HQ Support
Full FOW

House Rules:
No Para drops at all.
No bombing of air bases more than 3 times a turn (after turn 1)
No bombing of HQ's unless stacked with a ground unit
No naval invasions before November 1941, none outside the 1939 Soviet borders before January 1943
In addition if Sevastopol is either isolated, or in German hands, none west of the Crimea,
which reflects the scope for air/naval interdiction not really reflected in the game.

Additional Auto VC:
If the Axis player holds
Leningrad, Moscow, Voronezh and Rostov concurrently at any time in 1941 he wins
an Auto Victory. No need to waste any ones time as we all know the end results based on past games if these cities fall in 1941.

Optional Rules Setup:

Mild Blizzard Rules
Non Random Weather
No 1-1 = 2-1

I am playing 3 games at the same time, which is interesting as all 3 seem to being doing something different.
Which is good for others to see what works.

As I have stated the first 4 turns are old school then logistics chain hits hard.
I am kind of surprised so far myself at the results comparing all 3 games over the first 4 turns.


I will start posting when all 3 are a ways out.




Turn 3 Armament Pts in Pool: 000,000 VP: 000

Armament Pts Locked= 0 Destroyed = 0
Heavy Industry Locked= 0 Destroyed = 0
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Russian OOB: ,000
A net gain of: ,000
Total Dead: ,000
Losses this turn: ,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: ,000 Ready Rifle Squads: 0 Net change: 0
A net gain of: ,000
Total Dead: ,000
Losses this turn: ,000

Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 0---------0------
Total
SHC-------00--------0------




Air War

Ratio last turn: 1 : 1

GHC loses:
SHC loses:

Total GHC loses:
Total SHC loses:

Word M60 thinks Saper is a fool.

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Hats off to your opponent for accepting mild blizzard conditions under 1.08. He's not wise by doing so, but we'll see what he makes of it.




< Message edited by Pelton -- 5/13/2015 12:41:33 AM >


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE
Post #: 1
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/14/2014 9:04:41 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 4 GHC Armaments: 79,000 Manpower Pool: 158


Armament Pts Locked= 29 Destroyed = 11
Heavy Industry Locked= 19 Destroyed = 3
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 844,000 Russian losses this turn:
Russian OOB: 3,721,000
A net gain of:
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,432,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change:
Total dead: German losses this turn:

Air War

Ratio last turn: 1 : 1

GHC loses:
SHC loses:

Total GHC loses: 248
Total SHC loses: 4258

Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 1--------4
Total
SHC------1--------8
HQBU’s

Turn 2: 2, turn 3: 1 turn 4 : 1 total = 4 all in the south.
In the past total would be 6 all in the south.

JU-52's are split between AGN and AGS

When I get turn 8 back I will start posting pictures from turn 4.

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 2
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/16/2014 5:16:11 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
T-4 North.

I figured I would not bore people with all the standard stuff.

Turn 2 I easly crosses the Pskov, as in all my past games. Saper then pulled back behind Luga and Shelon rivers as per his standard tactics.

I have moved up slowly waiting on Infantry, I see no need to waste my tanks.

Saper has tried attacking 8 times with only 1 win. In our game that has 1v1=2v1 at the end of 4 turns Saper was 8 attacks and 8 wins.

Saper was 94 wins and 7 loses in 12 turns with 1v1=2v1, Middle Earth win % even GHC does not come close to that.

Over all with 1.08 is same as 1.07-.01




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 3
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/16/2014 5:17:44 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Center

Nothing to amazing same as 1.07 and before




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 4
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/16/2014 5:27:54 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
In the south Saper simply ran, no screening units at all nothing with was a mistake on his part.

My advance was slightly better then 1.07, but not a record for me.

Pelton vs Saper 1.07.11

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3492242&mpage=2&key=

As with 63%% of my games I reach D-town by the end of turn 4. In my game with Shermanny and smokendave, one game I reach D-town and the other I don't.

HQBU 1.08 harder = 1.07.11 the reason they are = is the logistical chain - the port exploit.

HQBU under 1.08 is not as good as 1.07 because of the simple fact GHC can only do 2 per turn because of AP cost.

I have done 4 total 1.08 and under 1.07 I would have done 6 in the south and at least 1 and up to 2 in the north.

The advance looks cool, but its basicly over because of logistics chain.

Only reason I am this far in south is because Saper ran and did not screen.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 5
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/16/2014 5:46:27 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline


Only reason I am this far in south is because Saper ran and did not screen and left 4 hexes open on the east side of river,LoL.

Saper has railed 20-30 units north leaving the south wide open.






< Message edited by Pelton -- 11/16/2014 6:47:07 PM >


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 6
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/17/2014 11:51:39 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 5 GHC Armaments: 80,000 VP: 162


Armament Pts Locked= 3 Destroyed = 20
Heavy Industry Locked= 3 Destroyed = 20
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 911,000 Russian losses this turn: 67,000
Russian OOB: 4,119,000
A net gain of: +398,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,437,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: +5000

Air War

Ratio last turn: 5.2 : 1

GHC loses: 116
SHC loses: 604

Total GHC loses: 364
Total SHC loses: 4862

Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 5--------0
Total
SHC------6--------8
HQBU’s

This turn; 1
Total to date: 5

Saper goes 5 for 5 on attacks mostly panzers in open near river crossings.

Saper in the past has been able to completely destroy the LW before summer of 1942. Be interesting to see what happens now that the intercept bug has been fixed.

AGN

As can be seen Saper has transferred most of the high morale infantry from all over the map to the Leningrad area.

Let the grinding begin.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 7
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/17/2014 11:53:07 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Center.

There she blows the +50c CV Wall of Steel at the Land Bridge






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 11/18/2014 12:55:26 AM >


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 8
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 12:01:39 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Look at the SHC forces north of D-town OPPPS there are none.

Saper has withdraw close to 40 units from the front.

Basicly Saper plays the big blob tactic.

I can advance at will east of Kiev, AGS has so out run the logistics chain I have to wait until turn 8 anyways before using panzers.

HQBU is basicly completely usless at this point.

It will give panzer divisions only 30-35 MP's and MoT 40-45, yes useless even if you sit panzer divisions they never see full MP's and Red Fanboys want to nerf it, just LOLOLOLOLOLO




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 9
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 12:02:41 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
SHC in the south does not have to fight, they can slowly withdraw everything to Tula north.



_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 10
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 4:11:08 PM   
HITMAN202


Posts: 739
Joined: 11/10/2011
Status: offline
Opinions from one significantly less skilled ...

1) Progress in AGN on turn 5, with such a large mass of strength, super.

2) AGC ... too many infantry units south of Smolensk facing a well-fortified Dnepr. I feel a big push thru the Smolensk landbridge in an attempt to breach the Dnepr river line east of Smolensk, opening up the option to aim for Moscow north, east, or south is better (but less flexible in the short term.)

Doubling up AGN's FBDs thru Vilnius gets supply to AGC Smolensk landbridge two turns earlier (almost) and the delay in extending supply in AGN to Leningrad is not an issue.

3) Your huge push in AGS gains space, but space you will eventually get. Such far-flung Pz units are vulnerable and supporting infantry units 3-4 turns away (significant numbers.)

Breaching the Dnepr just south of Kiev (which you have done due to Sapper's sins ..so to speak ... exclusion is just as punishable as inclusion), threatening a AGC/AGS hookup (which pressure south of Smolensk will aid, in spite of my criticism), or a push east (though just a big bulge), or more likely a push SSE, made more threatening by your breach of the Dnepr, seems to be the best.

However the Hitman is not a Pelton (though I'm pretty good at trash talking, per Sillyflower, who knows a little about insulting verbiage) and I'm open for criticism (but not Sillyflower's, the British expatriate.)





3)

< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 11/18/2014 5:42:53 PM >


_____________________________

WITE is a good addiction with no cure.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 11
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 6:07:59 PM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 927
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline
Hi guys,

Thought there was a limit on how many rr hexes could be repaired on any given rail line, such that, 6 in Baltic zone, 4 elsewhere.

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 12
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 6:21:57 PM   
HITMAN202


Posts: 739
Joined: 11/10/2011
Status: offline
You're correct. I'm wrong.

_____________________________

WITE is a good addiction with no cure.

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 13
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 6:54:44 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 6 GHC Armaments: 79,000 VP: 168


Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 23
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,025,000 Russian losses this turn: 114,000
Russian OOB: 4,245,000
A net gain of: +126,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,451,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: +14,000

Air War

Ratio last turn: 4 : 1

GHC loses: 170
SHC loses: 655

Total GHC loses: 534
Total SHC loses: 5517

Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 2--------0
Total
SHC------8--------8
HQBU’s

This turn; 0
Total to date: 5


AGN

Because Saper is heavy in north panzers from AGC are sent south to link up with 2nd Army north of land bridge.

My main goal is to keep pounding in the hopes Saper keeps the bulk of his good forses near Leningrad.

1. This should make flanking the Land Bridge easyer.
2. Will greatly lower Sapers counter attacks that build guard units, because north of the Oka terrain favors the defender.
3. South of Oka to Rostov will be next to nothing for defenders.

Hitman my railheads, one to Pskov, 1 helps towards Riga then splits of and heads for Smolensk. Center one goes to Minsk, southern ones move out of Romania north of Odessa to D-town.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 14
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 6:56:40 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGC

2nd Army moves north of the land bridge with panzer support.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 15
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 7:00:57 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
AGS

More of the boring same Saper with draws 3-5 hexes and I advance 3-5 hexes.

Panzers from AGC head north.

To be honest this is the most boring game I have ever played do date.

Once I get my tanks balled up Saper with draws to the next line.

GHC panzer MP's suck so bad even when you do HQBU's it impossible to do anything other then clear hexes for Infantry.

SHC OOB grows every turn and GHC TOE's in almost every unit is 95% to 100%.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 16
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 7:02:04 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
I don't think Saper will have 2 million dead if that, not very historical at all.

More like dancing with the stars heheheh

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 17
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 7:06:32 PM   
morvael


Posts: 10756
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

The encirclement of Soviet Forces in Kiev was achieved on 16 September.


No doubt your main problem is supply, you are running 2 months ahead of schedule in terms of conquest in the south, so light losses but units stuck.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 18
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 8:06:30 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

quote:

The encirclement of Soviet Forces in Kiev was achieved on 16 September.


No doubt your main problem is supply, you are running 2 months ahead of schedule in terms of conquest in the south, so light losses but units stuck.


Yes don't forget Germanny went from Kiev to Rostov in a few weeks, no logistics of WitE or WitE 2.0 would support that

< Message edited by Pelton -- 11/18/2014 9:06:56 PM >


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 19
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 8:07:42 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

quote:

The encirclement of Soviet Forces in Kiev was achieved on 16 September.


No doubt your main problem is supply, you are running 2 months ahead of schedule in terms of conquest in the south, so light losses but units stuck.


Its a trade off Saper is not normal nor am I

Saper




_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 20
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 8:14:09 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 2083
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline
Kiev didn't fall to the Germans in July either, but the game will support that.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 21
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 8:25:16 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Kiev didn't fall to the Germans in July either, but the game will support that.


Hi M60 good to see your still around


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 22
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/18/2014 11:36:43 PM   
Disgruntled Veteran


Posts: 603
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline
I'm kind of unsure why you seem so behind in the Center front in your games. I can usually trash the land bridge just by plowing right through it starting T2. Your T5-6 show you still behind Vitebsk and not across the River. Do you purposely not attack or have you transferred most of your divisions from Center to elsewhere?

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 23
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/19/2014 12:17:43 AM   
smokindave34


Posts: 804
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

I'm kind of unsure why you seem so behind in the Center front in your games. I can usually trash the land bridge just by plowing right through it starting T2. Your T5-6 show you still behind Vitebsk and not across the River. Do you purposely not attack or have you transferred most of your divisions from Center to elsewhere?


I've played Sapper (with Sapper as Soviet) and I ran into a wall of steel on turn 2-3 at the land bridge. He effectively shuts off the landbridge until you can commit the entire 9th army to attacking it (if you choose). Very challenging.

(in reply to Disgruntled Veteran)
Post #: 24
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/19/2014 12:30:00 AM   
BJP III

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 2/22/2013
Status: offline
Why not shift all the AGS panzers to the North and Center (leaving maybe III PzK and the misc Hungarians and Rumanians to convert hexes and nuke the occasional speedbump)?

(in reply to smokindave34)
Post #: 25
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/19/2014 6:57:09 AM   
Gabriel B.

 

Posts: 505
Joined: 6/24/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34


quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

I'm kind of unsure why you seem so behind in the Center front in your games. I can usually trash the land bridge just by plowing right through it starting T2. Your T5-6 show you still behind Vitebsk and not across the River. Do you purposely not attack or have you transferred most of your divisions from Center to elsewhere?


I've played Sapper (with Sapper as Soviet) and I ran into a wall of steel on turn 2-3 at the land bridge. He effectively shuts off the landbridge until you can commit the entire 9th army to attacking it (if you choose). Very challenging.


the infantry from 3 PzAOK and 3 AK from 9 AOK can reach Lepel by the end of turn 3 , turn 3 should be used for resting mobile units or building up.

< Message edited by Gabriel B. -- 11/19/2014 7:57:55 AM >

(in reply to smokindave34)
Post #: 26
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/19/2014 7:44:12 AM   
Gabriel B.

 

Posts: 505
Joined: 6/24/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Center.

There she blows the +50c CV Wall of Steel at the Land Bridge



It is easy to have that in place even by turn 4 .

The Bogusev hex stack usualy has -

8 cv tank unit from the south .
4 cv infantry unit .
3 cv mountain unit .


the defenders of ORSHA however look impresive... fog of war perhaps ?

< Message edited by Gabriel B. -- 11/19/2014 8:51:01 AM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 27
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/19/2014 8:00:45 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gabriel B.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Center.

There she blows the +50c CV Wall of Steel at the Land Bridge



It is easy to have that in place even by turn 4 .

The Bogusev hex stack usualy has -

8 cv tank unit from the south .
4 cv infantry unit .
3 cv mountain unit .


the defenders of ORSHA however look impresive... fog of war perhaps ?


Saper is smarter then everyone else end of story.

He can make 30 - 50 CV stacks between 20-30 of them and during the August ToE changes the numbers do not drop off at all unlike everyone esles.

How he does it only he knows as even the testers seem cluelessas to how he does it.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 11/19/2014 9:02:26 AM >


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Gabriel B.)
Post #: 28
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/19/2014 8:09:15 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

I'm kind of unsure why you seem so behind in the Center front in your games. I can usually trash the land bridge just by plowing right through it starting T2. Your T5-6 show you still behind Vitebsk and not across the River. Do you purposely not attack or have you transferred most of your divisions from Center to elsewhere?


Play someone with skills, Bomazz,Katza,MT,Sapper,TDV ect ect

Before 1.08 NO ONE cracked the WoS or took Leningrad NO ONE.

Your tanks would simply die and be lucky to take a few hexes.

1.08 really really slows down panzers, HQBU is about usless after turn 4. MP's are limited to 30ish even close to railheads so mega pockets are off the table.

You are going to see very low KIA for SHC now.

If your playing with 1v1=2v1 your toast vs a skilled SHC player


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Disgruntled Veteran)
Post #: 29
RE: Pelton vs Saper - 11/19/2014 8:14:04 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 9572
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Turn 7 GHC Armaments: 80,000 VP: 174


Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 27
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,070,000 Russian losses this turn: 45,000
Russian OOB: 4,416,000
A net gain of: +171,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,461,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: +10,000

Air War

Ratio last turn: 7 : 1

GHC loses: 96
SHC loses: 681

Total GHC loses: 630
Total SHC loses: 6198

Total GHC Planes: 3106
Total SHC Planes: 5699


Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 0--------1
Total
SHC------8--------9
HQBU’s

This turn; 0
Total to date: 5

AGN keeps pushing for Leningrad and the stacks remain in the high 20's to 40's.

Tester make a claim that because of ToE changes to SHC rifle squads that these stacks should weaken, but we are on turn 11 and these claims are simply old wives tales as far as Saper is conserned.

The CV values over have gone up not down.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> Pelton(GHC) vs Saper Resigned GHC Victory T-36 Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.172