The Five Worst U.S. Generals

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berto
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by berto »


All "best" and "worst" lists are rubbish, and this one is no exception. McClellan & MacArthur? Gimme a break! [:@]
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: berto


All "best" and "worse" lists are rubbish, and this one is no exception. McClellan & MacArthur? Gimme a break! [:@]
Frendenhall and McClellan are OK entrants onto that list. MacArthur and Franks not so much.
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by zakblood »

poor choice of words, as some may be better at saving lives than taking objectives but does that make them better or worse as a commander, and as i can do no better than any, it's 1 users (the list makers) opinion only and carries no weight...
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by gradenko2k »

As a Filipino I have to agree with the inclusion of "Dugout Doug". Guy mismanaged the defense of the Philippines, got into a dick-waving contest with Nimitz that directly contributed to the Battle of Samar, and basically lucked out at Inchon.
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by rhondabrwn »

I have to nominate Gen Ambrose Burnside for the list... one word... Fredricksburg!

Though Petersburg and the Battle of the Crater come to mind as well.

Have to agree that such lists are pretty much worthless except to encourage discussion and debate.
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by gradenko2k »

John Bell Hood could easily make the list, given a sufficiently loose interpretation of "U.S." General
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by TulliusDetritus »

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

As a Filipino I have to agree with the inclusion of "Dugout Doug". Guy mismanaged the defense of the Philippines, got into a dick-waving contest with Nimitz that directly contributed to the Battle of Samar, and basically lucked out at Inchon.

I never understood why MacArthur was blamed because of what happened before the counter-offensive in New Guinea (starting in the summer-autumn 1942) [&:]

"He left his trapped men behind", says the typical accusation. Hey, Roosevelt aka the Boss-in-Chief ordered him to go to Australia. Was he supposed to disobey an order? [;)]

As for the Philipines, the place was totally doomed. No US Navy = no reinforcements. With Alexander The Great, Hannibal, Cesar or Napoleon or Manstein in charge, the outcome would have been the same: a lost cause. Period.

The British followed another approach and lost a whole division, the 18th, which arrived just in time to surrender.
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by Hertston »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Frendenhall and McClellan are OK entrants onto that list. MacArthur and Franks not so much.

There are far better candidates than McClellan IMHO. At least there were some things he excelled at.
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by TulliusDetritus »

One year ago, I had started a thread on the AGEOD Civil War 2 sub-forum regarding McClellan. I had found a link in which a guy (Gene Thorp at the Washington Post) was actually defending McClellan. In case you are interested about his arguments:

The thread
tm.asp?m=3484741

and the Washington Post link:
http://live.washingtonpost.com/civil-war-120305.html

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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by berto »

ORIGINAL: Hertston
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Frendenhall and McClellan are OK entrants onto that list. MacArthur and Franks not so much.
There are far better candidates than McClellan IMHO. At least there were some things he excelled at.
Indeed. Here are just a few: Pope, Butler, Pemberton, Floyd, Pillow, Hood, Buell, Burnside, Halleck, ...
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by DerTroof »

ORIGINAL: berto

ORIGINAL: Hertston
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Frendenhall and McClellan are OK entrants onto that list. MacArthur and Franks not so much.
There are far better candidates than McClellan IMHO. At least there were some things he excelled at.
Indeed. Here are just a few: Pope, Butler, Pemberton, Floyd, Pillow, Hood, Buell, Burnside, Halleck, ...

You left out Bragg... he'd get my vote for worst. Most hated, anyway...
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by Curtis Lemay »

I would add Frontier Fremont. And...anybody for Westmoreland?
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: DerTroof

ORIGINAL: berto

ORIGINAL: Hertston


There are far better candidates than McClellan IMHO. At least there were some things he excelled at.
Indeed. Here are just a few: Pope, Butler, Pemberton, Floyd, Pillow, Hood, Buell, Burnside, Halleck, ...

You left out Bragg... he'd get my vote for worst. Most hated, anyway...

Most hated? No way. That would be Benedict Arnold by a mile.
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by DerTroof »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: DerTroof

ORIGINAL: berto



Indeed. Here are just a few: Pope, Butler, Pemberton, Floyd, Pillow, Hood, Buell, Burnside, Halleck, ...

You left out Bragg... he'd get my vote for worst. Most hated, anyway...

Most hated? No way. That would be Benedict Arnold by a mile.

Agreed, I meant in the context of ACW. Bragg was hated by his subordinates, they tried to have him sacked more than once, IIRC.
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by warspite1 »

Not a General. but certainly one of the worst US Colonels

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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by Twotribes »

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

As a Filipino I have to agree with the inclusion of "Dugout Doug". Guy mismanaged the defense of the Philippines, got into a dick-waving contest with Nimitz that directly contributed to the Battle of Samar, and basically lucked out at Inchon.

I never understood why MacArthur was blamed because of what happened before the counter-offensive in New Guinea (starting in the summer-autumn 1942) [&:]

"He left his trapped men behind", says the typical accusation. Hey, Roosevelt aka the Boss-in-Chief ordered him to go to Australia. Was he supposed to disobey an order? [;)]

As for the Philipines, the place was totally doomed. No US Navy = no reinforcements. With Alexander The Great, Hannibal, Cesar or Napoleon or Manstein in charge, the outcome would have been the same: a lost cause. Period.

The British followed another approach and lost a whole division, the 18th, which arrived just in time to surrender.
Read up on before the Japanese invaded. Mac Arthur did not scatter his aircraft nor did he attempt to use them against the Japanese. Further he positioned tons of supplies and equipment at potential invasion sites without troops there to defend the supplies or the beaches.

As for his leaving he was ordered out he had to go, but his conduct during the rest of the war was atrocious, he was an egotistical maniac that used up his best troops in either suicidal attacks or left them behind to rot. And then there was Korea. His constant demands we attack China lead DIRECTLY to the Chinese intervention. China was not ready for a war with the US, they had only recently driven the Nationalists out of main land China but with mac DEMANDING we bomb and invade China the Soviets were able to convince the Chinese they had no choice but to attack. Add that to his criminal forward deployments of penny pocket forces and we were faced with a disaster.
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by TulliusDetritus »

Ok, the Japanese destroyed part of his airforce and supplies. So was he supposed to resist and then invade the Japanese Islands with his hordes?

He was doomed, no matter what.

In the end, what are the last places where the allies had some sort of an organized defence (to stop the err... unstoppable Japanese tide)? Corregidor. Resisted until may. Not too bad if you remember that Singapore (the British 18th division went there -along other troops), the "impregnable fortress" fell on february [;)]

With limited resources he did not perform that bad after all.

"AFTER" is another story he indeed went through some ridiculous stuff... "... or don't come back alive" and then use the A-bomb against the Chinese before he was fired... [:D]
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by warspite1 »

So he wasn't bad because he performed better than Percival?? Well that's not a ringing endorsement is it?

Plus you seem to be ignoring his actions just prior to, and just after the Japanese attack, when he effectively went missing......
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RE: The Five Worst U.S. Generals

Post by Twotribes »

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Ok, the Japanese destroyed part of his airforce and supplies. So was he supposed to resist and then invade the Japanese Islands with his hordes?

He was doomed, no matter what.

In the end, what are the last places where the allies had some sort of an organized defence (to stop the err... unstoppable Japanese tide)? Corregidor. Resisted until may. Not too bad if you remember that Singapore (the British 18th division went there -along other troops), the "impregnable fortress" fell on february [;)]

With limited resources he did not perform that bad after all.

"AFTER" is another story he indeed went through some ridiculous stuff... "... or don't come back alive" and then use the A-bomb against the Chinese before he was fired... [:D]
If instead of laying supplies up at undefended beaches he had placed them where troops actually were like say Corrigador then instead of having to surrender in may they may have held out even longer.
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