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Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100%

 
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Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/11/2014 11:06:19 PM   
Drakken


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Another newbie question: Why is it possible to set percentages over 100% for each category when I set my Air Doctrines? What are the benefits for the player when setting it to 150% or 300%, when I can just set it to 100%?

Thanks!

Post #: 1
RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/12/2014 12:20:30 AM   
Oshawott

 

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quote:

Determines the number of bombers that the computer will attempt to have participate in a ground support or strike mission as a percentage of what the computer would normally attempt to send. For example, a setting of 50 results in the computer selecting air group units in an attempt to equal half the number of bombers it would select in a notional strike.


A setting of 200 for example means that the computer will attempt to send twice as many bombers/fighters for a mission. This in turn means that fewer missions will be flown as air groups use up there miles faster.

(in reply to Drakken)
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RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/12/2014 1:05:25 AM   
rrbill

 

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Whoops, guess I'll have to read the manual again... tbc later...

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RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/12/2014 12:34:26 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

quote:

Determines the number of bombers that the computer will attempt to have participate in a ground support or strike mission as a percentage of what the computer would normally attempt to send. For example, a setting of 50 results in the computer selecting air group units in an attempt to equal half the number of bombers it would select in a notional strike.


A setting of 200 for example means that the computer will attempt to send twice as many bombers/fighters for a mission. This in turn means that fewer missions will be flown as air groups use up there miles faster.


That is what it should have been doing.


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Oshawott)
Post #: 4
RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/12/2014 10:04:21 PM   
Drakken


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

quote:

Determines the number of bombers that the computer will attempt to have participate in a ground support or strike mission as a percentage of what the computer would normally attempt to send. For example, a setting of 50 results in the computer selecting air group units in an attempt to equal half the number of bombers it would select in a notional strike.


A setting of 200 for example means that the computer will attempt to send twice as many bombers/fighters for a mission. This in turn means that fewer missions will be flown as air groups use up there miles faster.


Neat. Is there a way to guesstimate how many bombers/fighters the computer would assign to a given mission? For instance, if I want to figure how many bombers/fighters the AI would assign for bombing airfield XYZ?

Otherwise, it looks like a random allocation, like "whatever needed to bomb airfields I want double."

< Message edited by Drakken -- 10/12/2014 11:04:37 PM >

(in reply to Oshawott)
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RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/12/2014 10:43:47 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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Whether I set ground bombing to 100, 200 or 300 the AI still seems to send about 100-ish bombers. So if you want to perform that mission, you may as well do a shift-right click and choose what you want to send.

(in reply to Drakken)
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RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/13/2014 6:48:01 AM   
HOTEC

 

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"Any setting over 100 will result in no air mission being conducted."
Is it still correct in page 176 of the Manual or outdated?
Is there any reason to allow the player to set the percentage above 100 if the Manual is right?

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
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RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/13/2014 2:05:26 PM   
M60A3TTS

 

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That only refers to the setting Percent Required to Fly and is still accurate.

(in reply to HOTEC)
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RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/13/2014 2:14:28 PM   
rrbill

 

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Air doctrine, obscure or what?

My understanding now is:

1. The top entry of air doctrine screen sets the % of air group's TOE (not actual TOE) that must be available to be considered as a source of aircraft for the mission intended.

2. Each mission type entry is the % of desired (notional) aircraft that must be mustered for the mission.

3. Notional amount: say what? Can anyone cite what these notional numbers are?

By setting these %s to low numbers, the number of missions possible increases. Seems also possible that by setting high %s air missions can be shut down. Beyond that Pooh-brain gives up planning air missions. Pooh-brain considers air doctrine to be obscure.

Appreciate any clarification from those who know.

(in reply to HOTEC)
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RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/13/2014 2:14:47 PM   
Oshawott

 

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quote:

Whether I set ground bombing to 100, 200 or 300 the AI still seems to send about 100-ish bombers. So if you want to perform that mission, you may as well do a shift-right click and choose what you want to send.


I always use shift-right click to manually fly air missions. But for ground support during combat the settings do make a difference as far as I can tell. The problem is that there are so many variables that affect how many planes participate: leader, morale of air regiments, fatigue, weather, etc. It is pretty much impossible to nail this down.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 10
RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/14/2014 4:35:59 AM   
HOTEC

 

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Is there any setting for transport of fuel/support?
Ground Support?
What is the difference between Ground Support and Ground Attack?

(in reply to Oshawott)
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RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/14/2014 7:15:05 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rrbill

Beyond that Pooh-brain gives up planning air missions. Pooh-brain considers air doctrine to be obscure.

Appreciate any clarification from those who know.


do so agree

Agree on top line, the % set is the % of the notional air unit strength. Below this and that unit is ineligible. So the setting depends, if playing the Soviets keep it fairly high (50-60) as that means that beat up air units (often with already low morale) are not used == less easy victories for the Germans. You should have enough to rotate and so on.

Others, my take is the AI at 100% says to itself, to do this mission I need x planes. If you set at 50% it will do the mission if 0.5x is available, if you set at 200% then only if 2x are available.

All things being equal higher values should mean fewer but stronger interventions - again it helps in 1941/2 with the Soviets to rely on mass to overcome the relative weakness of your fighters in particular.

The problem is understanding what rule the AI uses to set 'x', and then, as Oshawatt mentions (in the other air thread), once the AI has found x aircraft (modified by your setting) all the variables come into play to mean x-y actually turn up.

So even the most clever use of the settings is filtered via an unknown (??) algorithm for setting x and the random impact of various variables that will reduce the actual commitment to a lower number in any case (unless you pass all the tests).

On which basis, keep it simple sounds like a good rule to follow?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HOTEC

Is there any setting for transport of fuel/support?
Ground Support?
What is the difference between Ground Support and Ground Attack?


Your % to fly setting will influence if a given transport squadron is considered eligible. If the number of active aircraft are below the threshold that air unit will not be used.

(in reply to rrbill)
Post #: 12
RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/14/2014 12:03:36 PM   
rrbill

 

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Hmmm, believe that any air mission hitting ground units scores disruption points and that's useful.

Pooh-Bear plays for many missions rather than big missions. A dancing bear may have a different approach.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 13
RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/14/2014 2:15:20 PM   
gradenko_2000

 

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Percent Required to Fly - this tells the AI which Groups are eligible to fly missions. If this is set to 30%, then any Group with at least 30% of its maximum TOE of aircraft are ready, will fly missions. That is, a Group with a maximum TOE 40 aircraft will fly if it has at least 12 ready aircraft. A low setting will allow more Groups to participate, which a setting of 105% or higher will effectively cause zero missions of any kind to be flown at all.

Ground Support/Ground Attack/Airfield Attack/Interdiction Attack/City Attack - this tells the AI how many bombers it should send on these missions. Every time you ask the AI to launch a mission, it does its own calculation on how many bombers to send, based on availability, target strength, etc. This setting acts as a multiplier on that calculation. If the AI thinks it needs to send 10 bombers against a target, and this doctrine is set to 50%, it will only send 5 bombers.

Ground Support Escort/Ground Attack Escort/Airfield Attack Escort/Interdiction Attack Escort/City Attack Escort - this tells the AI how many escorts to send with the bombers, as a percentage of the bomers. That is, if the AI decides to send 5 bombers against a target and this doctrine is set to 300%, the AI will try to commit 3 times as many fighters as there are bombers, or 15 fighters.

Fighter Intercept - this tells the AI how many fighters to send as interceptors when defending against enemy strikes. That is, if the AI detects 10 incoming bombers during combat and this doctrine is set to 100%, the AI will try to send just as many fighters as there are bombers, or 10 fighters.

Note that if you use shift-right-click, then the doctrine settings are effectively ignored, since you yourself are selecting which Groups will fly. The exceptions to this are Interdiction, Ground Support and Interception missions, since those are always effectively AI-controlled and so you'll still have to manage the doctrine settings at least for them at the minimum.

Finally, while the AI may commit enough Groups to try and fly a 100 bomber mission, the game does simulate mid-mission aborts due aircraft reliability, morale, experience, fatigue and other such factors. Particularly for the Soviets in the early war, it may be necessary to crank the doctrine levels high and reduce the Percent Required to Fly just so your missions will arrive on-target with a decent number of planes.

(in reply to rrbill)
Post #: 14
RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/15/2014 10:24:02 AM   
rrbill

 

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Appreciate above remarks, Loki100 & gradenko_2000...

(in reply to gradenko_2000)
Post #: 15
RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/15/2014 12:10:08 PM   
Pelton

 

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The hole % to fly thingy could possibly have never been working.

Mybee just mybee you will see it working for .8

Which means a major rethinking of air combat.

But what do I know?

It could also mean that there were allot of things not working correctly, but I am just guessing

< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/15/2014 1:12:54 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to rrbill)
Post #: 16
RE: Air Doctrines and Percentages over 100% - 10/15/2014 9:58:37 PM   
carlkay58

 

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But there has been a major re-work of the air system - check out WitW.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 17
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