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AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 11:23:04 AM   
Alfred

 

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I have raised with, and received a favourable response from, the devs regarding the possibility of me revising the AE PDF manual, at least up to the last official patch (#6) level. There are some potential technical issues which may result in this project not proceeding to completion. Assuming that everything does however work out to plan, it is anticipated that 4 months work will be required.

This is a private initiative and undertaken for no remuneration. Regulars will already be aware of the quality of my posts but for any not so comforted, their concerns should be ameliorated by being informed that there will be a certain level of undisclosed dev participation in the project. This however is not an invitation for forumites to correspond with the devs regarding this project.

Only the PDF Manual will be revised. There will be no hard copy printing of any revised manual. Also as only 4 months are allocated to the project, the current PDF Manual structure will be largely retained.

The first stage of this project comprises an invitation to forumites to post in this thread examples of where they believe the current manual is:

(a) incorrect,
(b) unclear/inadequate in it's explanation,
(c) silent on a situation often encountered in the game

Only specific identified examples and the reasons why they fall within the above parameters need be presented. Generic statements that something is inadequate will not be considered. Bear in mind that the focus is up to the last official patch so the nomination of a long list of beta changes not covered by the current manual is not guaranteed to be taken into account at all in this project. The nomination of a wish list for AE II is guaranteed to be completely ignored.

This thread provides an opportunity for well reasoned PDF Manual deficiencies to be presented for consideration. It is not an indispensable element for this project to proceed. There is however a strict time period for the lodgement of submissions which need to be posted here by 20 September 2014.

No correspondence regarding the above conditions will be entered into. Disgruntled forumites can always undertake their own revision of the manual.

Alfred

Post #: 1
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 12:24:15 PM   
Thayne

 

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I thank you for taking on this project and believe there is nobody better qualified.

Could you please make available that version of the manual that you will be starting from so that everybody begins on literally the same page.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 2
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 1:03:53 PM   
Yaab


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Sharing support in non-base hexes

Manual LIGHT, p.182
"One support squad is needed for every non-Support or Aviation Support element in the unit. Support in a friendly base hex can be shared between units, so as long as the total support in the hex is greater than the support needed by all the units in the hex, the units will be fully supported. Support is not shared if not in a friendly base hex."

Support is shared between units in non-base hexes
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3113263


< Message edited by Yaab -- 9/4/2014 2:04:13 PM >

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Post #: 3
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 1:23:36 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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An obvious one is in page 104
"For greater realism, Japanese subs can be set to use the Japanese Sub Doctrine (see section 2.4.1 Japanese Sub Doctrine)."

This is of course not the case; a specific Japanese sub doctrine was never implemented

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Post #: 4
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 1:34:45 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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6.2.11 ROUTINE CONVOYS AND COMPUTER-CONTROLLED TF’S also in page 104

issue is a c) silent on a situation encountered.
When you are doing a "CS" convoys, the refueling options are still available, but they are not taken into consideration by the AI

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Post #: 5
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 1:45:33 PM   
szmike

 

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I think port subjects should be amended into single chapter if possible, then dividing functions in subchapters. Or maybe rearming should be put together at the least.
Now we have (EBOOK version):
- 6.3 p.109 - loading/unloading
- 9.3 p.210 - brief rundown on ports
- 15.2 p.250 - naval supply - no details, just that your ships expend ammunition and suitable port is needed. How big? How much does it cost? table with rearm points is on p.109 (and again further), wheras details on rearm cost are thrown in the middle of 9.3.3.2 Cargo and fuel handling.
- then there're AKE/AE ships somewhere, I can't find.

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RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 2:13:33 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thayne

I thank you for taking on this project and believe there is nobody better qualified.

Could you please make available that version of the manual that you will be starting from so that everybody begins on literally the same page.


Everyone is already on the same page.

The PDF manual has not been updated at any stage. It is exactly the same as the printed colour manual.

Alfred

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Post #: 7
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 2:27:29 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: szmike

I think port subjects should be amended into single chapter if possible, then dividing functions in subchapters. Or maybe rearming should be put together at the least.
Now we have (EBOOK version):
- 6.3 p.109 - loading/unloading
- 9.3 p.210 - brief rundown on ports
- 15.2 p.250 - naval supply - no details, just that your ships expend ammunition and suitable port is needed. How big? How much does it cost? table with rearm points is on p.109 (and again further), wheras details on rearm cost are thrown in the middle of 9.3.3.2 Cargo and fuel handling.
- then there're AKE/AE ships somewhere, I can't find.



I did say there were certain technical issues.

There are several other subjects which are addressed at different locations. Subject consolidation is not always going to be an easy task.

Just as the AE team had to deal with old legacy code, this project also has to accommodate old legacy text and screen shots in a legacy structure which predates AE. A good example is that the existing manual is wrong on the kamikaze activation range. That inaccuracy resulted from not adjusting the classical WITP manual which dealt with 60nm hexes to the AE game reduction of hexes to 40nm. In some ways it would be easier if the manual was revised starting from a blank sheet but that would push out the time table considerably.

Nonetheless the intention is to maximise subject consolidation and improve internal cross referencing.

Alfred

(in reply to szmike)
Post #: 8
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 2:49:57 PM   
rockmedic109

 

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This would be a monumental task with pay. Without pay.....I humbly stand here unworthy and in awe. Thank You.

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Post #: 9
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 3:12:13 PM   
Alfred

 

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Don't get carried away.  I said there are certain technical issues to overcome.  And I keep repeating we are retaining the basic structure.

One great advantage I have is that I can look up my own posts as they usually already incorporate dev answers unearthed during the research.  There ought to not be too many subject areas I haven't posted on in the past.  Plus the hidden contribution from the devs.

Alfred

(in reply to rockmedic109)
Post #: 10
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 3:15:19 PM   
KenchiSulla


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Alfred, great news and good luck! Here is a contribution... probably already on your shortlist...

6.3.3.3.2.1 OVER THE BEACH
This is for assault unloading over the beach.
»» Beaching Craft. Beaching craft unload completely in one turn.
»» Attack Amphibious Ships. (APA/AKA plus LSD, LSV and British equivalents)
in Amphibious TFs, unload at a Rate of 3000 points per ship, per turn.
128
»» Regular Transport Ships. (Commissioned Naval AP/AK) in Amphibious
TFs, unload at a Rate of 600 points per ship per turn.
»» Merchant Ships. (xAP/xAK) in Amphibious TFs, unload
at a Rate of 250 points per ship per turn.
»» Special Japanese early war bonus of 1200 for all AP/AK and xAP/xAK types.

Change turn into phase?



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Post #: 11
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 3:30:49 PM   
Alfred

 

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The other critical phase/turn reversal is that of page 189.

Yes these are the sort of things which can be easily missed and why this thread can be very valuable.  The contributions from various people will at the very least bring these inaccuracies to the attention of other players who can make their own notations to their printed manuals.  Just in case the project stalls.

Alfred

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Post #: 12
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 3:53:22 PM   
Cribtop


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Thanks for doing this, Alfred.

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RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 3:53:43 PM   
cavalry

 

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I would be happy to pay for an updated pdf manual, that includes everything including the beta stuff which should become a new official patch.
cav

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Post #: 14
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 4:55:51 PM   
dr.hal


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Alfred did indicate within the next 4 months, not 4 years! Maybe the Beta changes could be summarized in an addendum at a later date.......That would be a help at least and not a monumental task...

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RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 5:14:12 PM   
pontiouspilot


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sainthood awaits for this effort!

Pls clarify Evac Tfs in re-write. It is very unclear how limited they really are.

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 16
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 5:17:29 PM   
adsoul64


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Many thanks to Alfred, great idea. My 5 cents: Damian guide to production states each base needs >10K supplies to repair damaged industry. And each industry point repair costs 1000 supply. I've been unable to find any references to this requirement on the Manual.

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Post #: 17
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 7:20:24 PM   
btd64


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Alfred, If you need another set of eyes, for proof reading/editing, let me know. A ways back I emailed michaelm about helping him with a similar project....GP

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RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/4/2014 8:46:59 PM   
alimentary

 

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Section 4.2.1.5 ("Transportation Links") documents the types of roads. The final road type mentioned is "Railway Trail".

Section 8.3.1 ("Overland Movement") gives the movement point costs for various terrain types and roads. The final item mentioned is "Trail".

To the best of my knowledge, the only type of "trail" that exists in AE is the "Railway Trail" (in contrast to WITP where "trail" was a separately defined connection type). The PDF should be consistent in nomenclature. My recommendation would be to use the term "Railway Trail" in both 8.3.1 and 4.2.1.5.

Edit: section 4.2.1.5 makes it clear that "Railway Trail" is, in fact, the only kind of trail explicitly present in AE:

"No other trails exist on the map other than
along such railway lines. The existence of foot trails is assumed in all
hexes on the map that do not have roads defined, and this is accounted
for in the off-road movement rates. Therefore there are no actual “trails”
defined on the map except for along railway lines as described here."


< Message edited by alimentary -- 9/4/2014 9:52:25 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/5/2014 1:57:55 AM   
Reg


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Hi Alfred,

A truely noble and magnanimous task you are taking on here. It will certainly be appreciated by the AE community.

In addition to actual errors/ommissions in the existing manual I assume you will be working through the What's New listings and incorporating those changes (over a thousand I believe) into the manual (ouch!!).

If you don't mind me asking what tools will you be using? It might help if people want to provide preformatted information to assist you.

Apollo11 is doing something similar with the War in the East Manual and I believe he is editing in MSWord and using Adobe InDesign to generate indexing in the final PDF.



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Reg.

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Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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Post #: 20
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/5/2014 3:02:07 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Thanks for doing this, Alfred.

+1



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Post #: 21
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/5/2014 4:13:03 AM   
Panjack

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
...Only the PDF Manual will be revised. There will be no hard copy printing of any revised manual....

Perhaps the copyright holders don't want a printed manual, but IF they were open to having it printed then services such as Amazon's CreateSpace offer a very easy way to get books printed from just a PDF. You upload a PDF along with cover art and CreateSpace does the rest. The books CreateSpace prints (on demand) are quite cheap and look just like, well, real books.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 22
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/5/2014 5:08:33 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg


Hi Alfred,

A truely noble and magnanimous task you are taking on here. It will certainly be appreciated by the AE community.

In addition to actual errors/ommissions in the existing manual I assume you will be working through the What's New listings and incorporating those changes (over a thousand I believe) into the manual (ouch!!).

If you don't mind me asking what tools will you be using? It might help if people want to provide preformatted information to assist you.

Apollo11 is doing something similar with the War in the East Manual and I believe he is editing in MSWord and using Adobe InDesign to generate indexing in the final PDF.




If by "What's New listings" you mean the patch notes found in the consolidated Readme file, the answer is yes. In itself that will not amount to a 1000 changes but it will lead to many changes. Every change to gameplay will obviously be incorporated. Also the gist of the interface/pilot training addendums will need to be incorporated in the main body even though the addendums will remain as primary documents.

Significant over the years dev provided clarifications will be included. These are areas which generally at some point in time I have chipped in and as I said yesterday I will be looking at my historical posts. Some of the significant areas covered, without disclosing proprietary algorithms, will include:


  • river crossings
  • kamikaze
  • on map logistic flows
  • combat


and many more. I haven't yet determined how best to handle subject areas which have detailed player generated guides such Damian's Japanese economy, LoBaron's Air Co-ordination or my Ship Repair guide.

As to tools, this is where many of the technical issues come into play. From a long time ago I have extensive experience in writing up and formatting reports using MS Word for use by major law firms, television and radio stations, academics and the general public. But use of PDF documents is an area of zero prior experience.

I had originally a very faint hope of being able to get away with limited tools. That has already been shown to be a dead end and I will have to proceed to the next level of previously foreseen tools.

The current position is this.

a. I have Microsoft Office 2007. I think that should suffice and there ought to be no need to upgrade Office 2013. Use of Word is important as it allows for marking up document changes. Word ought to suffice for Table of Contents and Index changes; at least it can't be any more limited than the existing Index.
b. I am hoping that Paint will suffice for capturing any new screenshots but if not one of the free screen capture programs (often mentioned by witpqs et al) once downloaded ought to suffice.
c. I have saved a copy of the "WITP-Manual [Light" as a Microsoft Office Word document (.docx). No screenshots survived and whilst on the whole the original text formatting survived, the table formatting did not survive.
d. It seems the easiest solution to the formatting issues is to subscribe to one of the Adobe paid services. There are three which appear to be relevant.

(i) Adobe Export PDF. Annual cost is $AUD 23.88. This is a very basic service and does not appear to allow for tracking.
(ii) Adobe PDF Pack. Annual cost is $AUD 89.99. Adds tracking and seems to expand on retention of fonts, formats and layout capabilities.
(iii) Adobe Pro. Annual cost is $AUD 239.88. Incorporates Acrobat XI. Most extensive formatting and text editing capabilities, including editing images (a feature which may well prove to be invaluable subsequently) which the two cheaper products seem to lack.

Seems to me that I need to acquire Adobe Pro but before doing so I'll listen to any feedback from those experienced in editing PDF documents. Apollo is probably using in house software whereas I am restricted to using only personal use software. Personally paying $AUD 240 is OK but I would balk at outlaying $AUD 1000+ for this project.

Alfred

(in reply to Reg)
Post #: 23
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/5/2014 5:28:18 AM   
witpqs


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Alfred,

You might have said and I missed it, but is there a source document available, or is the PDF file the only thing available to work with?

If a source document is available, then you might consider the free (you knew I would say that!) LibreOffice. LibreOffice Writer, and indeed all of the suite, provides built-in output to PDF. I have not bought a version of Word in a long, long time. I save everything in the appropriate Open Document Format, whether Open Document Spreadsheet (ODS), Open Document text (ODT), or whatever.

While I have not tested it yet, I looked in LibreOffice Writer for change tracking and it is present. Screen capture below. The screen capture is with Greenshot (full quality, some free programs throttle to less than 100%). I use Paint.net for editing (much faster/easier than MSPaint), although this screenshot is unedited.

If a source document is not available then I will look into ways to convert from PDF without paid programs.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by witpqs -- 9/5/2014 6:31:55 AM >


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Post #: 24
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/5/2014 5:35:01 AM   
witpqs


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The help for those menu items.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 25
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/5/2014 5:46:17 AM   
Alfred

 

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witpqs,

No, I haven't said anything about accessing the source document so you haven't missed it.

Didn't know anything about LibreOffice so thanks for the lead.  Paying a couple of hundred dollars is worthwhile if it results in easy interoperability with the official stakeholders.

As to the source document I had presumed that I would not be given access to it, at least not initially.  It is another of those technical issues.  Not having access to it is not fatal to the project and without going into details now, it is not inconceivable that things may subsequently alter.  At the moment I am proceeding on the basis of working without a NDA agreement which may well be a sine qua non for access.  I think it is only reasonable for the Powers to Be to wait to see what actually is generated first before they commit themselves too much to the project.

Alfred

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Post #: 26
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/5/2014 6:22:07 AM   
witpqs


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The compatibility will depend on what format the file is currently stored in. "There was a time" when Microsoft deliberately made their newer storage formats for Word and such have subtle incompatibilities with non-MS software. They swore off of that behavior a number of years ago. But note the skeptical quotation marks!

Given how old the current manual is, the doc is about guaranteed to be in a format that other software (such as LibreOffice) can read and write without problems. Because of Microsoft's better behavior, the same should be true of the newer MS formats if the document owner's insist on a newer Microsoft proprietary format. They should opt for an Open Document Format, as it is just that and they shouldn't lose anything in doing so.

It looks like there are multiple options for reading in PDF files; I'm looking for one that is a straight up import with retention of markup/layout. I'll get back to you.

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Post #: 27
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/5/2014 8:34:34 AM   
szmike

 

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When you wrote about limited editing, it was obvious you couldn't/wouldn't have access to source version editable file.
I would convert pdf to any office format just to retain the text for edits, then screenshots and tables are not that much of a problem if they won't survive. Formatting all together after edits shouldn't take too much time either. MS Office have included saving as pdf in 2010 version.

If you need any help editing/proofreading I'd be glad to help.

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Post #: 28
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/5/2014 12:02:13 PM   
littleike

 

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Hi Alfred

in the past i collected many informations from the forum to make a sort of self made “strategic manual”.
The final result was a pdf with about 200 pages.

I uploaded version one of this document in pdf format here

http://www.netwargamingitalia.net/forum/resources/witpae-a-forum-squeeze.28/


Obviously i have clearly understood that your work is only related to the standard manual update
so my document collection of forum question and answers maybe unuseful but maybe that in the middle of all the stuff you could find something of interest for your update.
( I have also the word version of the file if needed).


Thanks anyway for your effort.

(in reply to szmike)
Post #: 29
RE: AE PDF Manual Revision - 9/5/2014 1:26:00 PM   
Reg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The compatibility will depend on what format the file is currently stored in. "There was a time" when Microsoft deliberately made their newer storage formats for Word and such have subtle incompatibilities with non-MS software. They swore off of that behavior a number of years ago. But note the skeptical quotation marks!

Given how old the current manual is, the doc is about guaranteed to be in a format that other software (such as LibreOffice) can read and write without problems. Because of Microsoft's better behavior, the same should be true of the newer MS formats if the document owner's insist on a newer Microsoft proprietary format. They should opt for an Open Document Format, as it is just that and they shouldn't lose anything in doing so.

It looks like there are multiple options for reading in PDF files; I'm looking for one that is a straight up import with retention of markup/layout. I'll get back to you.


I originally asked the question about tools as I suspected this might be the case.

You might like to look at this link: Semi OT: Seeking help with "indexing" of the updated PDF manual (for WitE - I am in charge for it)!

I have just uploaded the manual into Libre Office (thankfully no edit security) and as I suspected it imports it into Libre Draw not Writer. This is not the ideal tool for this task. ie text lines are individual entities not paragraphs which makes inserting text a real pain in the a#$$ (no automatic line overflow...). By the way, Acrobat writer works in exactly the same way.

You did better than me getting it into docx (XML format) though I seem to remember OpenOffice could do something like this.

What you really need is a copy of the original source file or run the current pdf manual through a MS Office converter to create an edititable source file (though document security can defeat that). PDF is not really an editable file format.

Once you have a good source file, Office 2007 will be just fine as an editor. Don't forget the humble screen print button of your computer - it works!! (Paste straight into Word and you can crop/edit/resize from there).

There are several freeware pdf print drivers such as CutePDF (www.cutepdf.com) which I use (though it installs other unwanted stuff) which will output a pdf document from any application which can print (including office 2007) but will not include niceities such as index links.

As per the link above, the tool of choice I believe is Adobe InDesign Suite but it is as expensive as all getout.... (and has a learning curve similar to WITP-AE )

However, there seems to be offerings out there where you can "rent" software for a limited time period at a monthly rate. This might be a better option that buying sophisticated (and expensive) software for a single task. Adobe Creative Cloud

Best of luck!!



To the rest of you guys, keep your suggestions coming - don't let us derail the thread....




< Message edited by Reg -- 9/5/2014 2:37:28 PM >


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Reg.

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Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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