Operation Desert Storm

The new Cold War turned hot wargame from On Target Simulations, now expanded with the Player's Edition! Choose the NATO or Soviet forces in one of many scenarios or two linked campaigns. No effort was spared to model modern warfare realistically, including armor, infantry, helicopters, air support, artillery, electronic warfare, chemical and nuclear weapons. An innovative new asynchronous turn order means that OODA loops and various effects on C3 are accurately modeled as never before.

Moderators: WildCatNL, cbelva, IronManBeta, CapnDarwin, IronMikeGolf, Mad Russian

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Mad Russian
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Operation Desert Storm

Post by Mad Russian »

I believe with little, or no, change to the organizations in the basic game we could do an Operation Desert Storm campaign.

Would there be any interest in this?

If so, which unit would you like to see followed in the campaign?

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
hazmaxed
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by hazmaxed »

I would be interested.  For a unit to follow, one possibility could be a hypothetical Desert Shield campaign, where the 24th Infantry Division (Mech.) defends against an Iraqi attack into Saudi Arabia to take oil fields and/or the Persian Gulf ports.  If the attack occurs in November 1990, the campaign could follow the 1st Cavalry Division instead.

If the campaign is to be more historical (Desert Storm coalition attack), then the 1st Armoured Division (U.K.) would be interesting.

Edit: For a U. S. unit in a Desert Storm campaign, I'd choose the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment.
There is no overkill. There is only "open fire" and "reloading."
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Mad Russian
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by Mad Russian »

2nd ACR was involved in the fight at 73 Easting along with 1st Infantry Division in Operation Norfolk.

Then there is the Battle for Medina Ridge, which was fought by 1st US Armored Division.

The information I have on the 1st British Armored Division is that they met mostly T-55's and that they thought at least half of those were unmanned when they engaged them. Maybe not the best of choices.

It would be quite possible to try this with a unit of the Republican Guard. Like the Tawakalna Division that was involved in the 73 Easting battle, with the reinforcing tank brigades. I thought you guys had been on defense long enough but that would definitely prove to be a challenge.


Good Hunting.

MR

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by hazmaxed »

I'd forgotten that the British 1st Armoured encountered mostly T-55s. Oh, well.
 
How well does the AI handle defense? So far I've only played scenarios where the AI is attacking.
There is no overkill. There is only "open fire" and "reloading."
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zakblood
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by zakblood »

i'll play anything tbh, i'm not fussy, attack / defend is all the same to me.

this is what i've just read

desert-storm.com/War/ or en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Battles_of_the_Gulf_War

some nice figures in it.

Battle of Medina Ridge sounds like a good one to me
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MikeGER
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by MikeGER »

i like the Desert Storm idea [:)]

maybe two campaigns:
- one historical
and
- one on the same map(s) but with a Republican Guard force as oppositon...

also IIRC there where the threat that Sadam may release chemical wepaons, - wich are fortunatly in the game - so that cound be
an additional 'what if' option too.

The question is: Does a desert scenario need some new terrain types, weather-states, first and also their accoring parameters for the game-engine "inside the black box calculations" which can be added with the 2.06 patch

cliff = impassable
wadi = which turn into a river / flashflood when the weather changes to thunder storm
also a sand-storm LOS/movement parameter-set is a must


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CapnDarwin
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by CapnDarwin »

Mike, I would agree that you would need those things, but we have enough 2.06 issues right now that effect game play to varying degrees that need fixed. All of those items will need to wait for 2.1 or we will never get 2.1 started. Most of those items are in the 2.1 planning right now.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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DoubleDeuce
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by DoubleDeuce »

Just need a few maps . . . [8D]
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Mad Russian
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by Mad Russian »

Speaking of maps. Are there any available in the areas for Medina Ridge or 73 Easting? Or some SAT maps that we could get?

Google Earth gives elevations if you mouse over so you can get the general lay of the land. Which in a desert is pretty good information but we'll take anything we can get.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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zakblood
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by zakblood »

any of these any good for you?

Iraq maps

more maps of iraq

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Tazak
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by Tazak »

Would be interested to see how much of a drop in terms of armour/firepower and vision capabilities the export models of the T72 have compared to the prime USSR versions
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by zakblood »

maybe that much to make it a more one sided and for that reason a poor choice of battle imo, as who would want to play as Iraq?

make it a what if type battle and more balanced then most would play either side, then again i'm often wrong, it's not the first and won't be the last time either tbh
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TAKODA
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by TAKODA »

An Operation Desert Storm campaign would be perfect, and I would really like to see some hypothetical scenarios too. Please make this.
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by pzgndr »

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
Then there is the Battle for Medina Ridge, which was fought by 1st US Armored Division.

Not sure if it was this battle or something else I read where 1AD encountered Iraqis in the defense at night. They had just had airstrikes so the Iraqi tankers were coming out of their bunkers and getting back into their idled (cold) tanks. The 1AD Abrams tanks with thermal sights came up and saw what appeared to be bowling balls hovering in the air about 10-12 feet above the ground. WTF? Ah, heads in the turrets! Aim a little lower and... fire! Good stuff.
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DoubleDeuce
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by DoubleDeuce »

I have a few of my mapsheets I kept, if I can find them after the house move last summer. I used the same mapsheet from the berm to Safwan without switching them around. Since we had a GPS, and the maps pretty nondescript didn't figure the map would be much use. They are pretty much nothing but flat, little if any elevation changes on them. There was on the ground, more than some might think, just too subtle to warrant lines on the map.
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Mad Russian
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by Mad Russian »

ORIGINAL: Double Deuce

...the maps pretty nondescript didn't figure the map would be much use. They are pretty much nothing but flat, little if any elevation changes on them. There was on the ground, more than some might think, just too subtle to warrant lines on the map.

That's what I'm seeing. I can make maps with those small elevations. Google Earth does give me elevations in meters.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Tazak
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by Tazak »

ORIGINAL: zakblood

maybe that much to make it a more one sided and for that reason a poor choice of battle imo, as who would want to play as Iraq?

make it a what if type battle and more balanced then most would play either side, then again i'm often wrong, it's not the first and won't be the last time either tbh

Anything where western powers have used modern kit against middle east forces with much older soviet gear is going to be more like British colonial wars in the 1900's replacing the early gatling guns vs. spears with modern MBTs vs. 20+ year old tanks.
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by CapnDarwin »

The trick in winning as the US is not losing units. One M1A1 is going to be worth 6+ T-72s.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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Mad Russian
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by Mad Russian »

The issue is actually two fold. A military force has two factors that determine it's effective combat value.

Training first, equipment second.

When you have a situation, as in the Middle East, where one side is deficient in both, the results are pretty much a foregone conclusion.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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RE: Operation Desert Storm

Post by hazmaxed »

ORIGINAL: Double Deuce

I have a few of my mapsheets I kept, if I can find them after the house move last summer. I used the same mapsheet from the berm to Safwan without switching them around. Since we had a GPS, and the maps pretty nondescript didn't figure the map would be much use. They are pretty much nothing but flat, little if any elevation changes on them. There was on the ground, more than some might think, just too subtle to warrant lines on the map.

1/250,000 air navigation map, right? I can't remember what the contour interval was on those, but it wasn't very useful. Of course, having to switch out for a new 1/50,000 map everytime we ran off the sheet would have been a pain.
There is no overkill. There is only "open fire" and "reloading."
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