WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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decaro
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WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by decaro »

from Wired:

"Aviation and the automobile were in their infancy when World War I started in 1914, but naval warfare had thousands of years of history behind it. It was, however, in a period of dramatic change, and the ships Britain poured its resources into building helped the country win the war—and eventually lose its empire.

"At the time, the backbone of the British Royal Navy’s Grand Fleet consisted of dozens of dreadnought battleships. The HMS Dreadnought, commissioned in 1906, was the latest in a line of warships that had carried the name since the 1500s. The name referred to a heavy overcoat worn in stormy weather, but the HMS Dreadnought was so revolutionary its name came to describe an entire class of battleships ..."

http://www.wired.com/2014/08/the-wwi-ba ... sh-empire/

Also, "In some ways, naval warfare in World War I was like a giant chess game: lots of skirmishes, but because the big pieces were too valuable to risk losing, they stayed behind in relative safety.
A few of the leftover dreadnoughts played a role in later conflicts ..."

There are some Brit WW I capital ships in AE, but I don't recall if there are any dreadnoughts.
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Jellicoe
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by Jellicoe »

The four R class battleships and the three QE class battleships as well as the two Renown class battle cruisers are all ww1 relics albeit modernised to a greater or lesser degree. The battleships would have been labelled as dreadnoughts in the 1st war to distinguish them from the pre dreadnoughts still in commission. The British C and D class light cruisers are also late ww1 relics too, although I find them really useful as both expendable and quite dangerous in the right place As normally have decent skills plus armament sufficient to overwhelm most light opposition. Lost Dauntless to Musashi last game which was a less we'll judged assessment of potential opposition.......
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by wegman58 »

And the Naval Arms Race leading up to WW I was so furious that HMS Dreadnaught herself was basically obsolete by the time of Jutland. The concept of the Super-Dreadnaught had come around and the Queen Elizabeths and the R Class fell into that category. The IJN and United States Navy also have super-dreadnaught veterans in the game.
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Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

In my opinion, what bankrupted the British empire was the building of a massive land army (4 million men at its peak).

The dreadnoughts were a necessity, the empire would had not survive if the German High Seas Fleet prevailed.
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Jellicoe
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by Jellicoe »

Actually the one ship in the game that has the most legitimate claim to the title 'dreadnought' is the USS Arkansas. She is comfortably the oldest BB in the game and with her 12inch main armament is closest to that 1st generation of dreadnoughts. I personally rate her as a very early 2 nod generation dreadnought, perhaps akin to an Orion class or maybe a King George V
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by Cribtop »

I just find it highly appropriate that Admiral Jellicoe is commenting on this topic. Straight from the horse's mouth, eh? [;)]

I highly recommend the book "Dreadnought" on the subject of the building of these ships, the effect of them on pre-war English-German relations, and the coming of the Great War.
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by wegman58 »

Agreed on DREADNAUGHT - Interesting read.

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I just find it highly appropriate that Admiral Jellicoe is commenting on this topic. Straight from the horse's mouth, eh? [;)]

I highly recommend the book "Dreadnought" on the subject of the building of these ships, the effect of them on pre-war English-German relations, and the coming of the Great War.
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by AW1Steve »

ORIGINAL: Jellicoe

Actually the one ship in the game that has the most legitimate claim to the title 'dreadnought' is the USS Arkansas. She is comfortably the oldest BB in the game and with her 12inch main armament is closest to that 1st generation of dreadnoughts. I personally rate her as a very early 2 nod generation dreadnought, perhaps akin to an Orion class or maybe a King George V
Wouldn't she be more akin to Agincourt? Due mainly to the number of guns.....
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by Mundy »

IRL, Utah, would really be the oldest. The Floridas were the third class of USN BBs, after South Carolina and Delaware.

Don't know if she would qualify as "super" dreadnought or not...

Makes me want to fire up WPO again.

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Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

Utah was no longer a BB in 1941; with her guns eliminated and converted into a radio controlled target/ AA training ship .


Books: if you want to read Dreadnought, then it is best to buy it together with Castles of Steels. the former being more into the politics before WW1 and the later fully focused on the WW1 naval war
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by Jellicoe »

Dreadnought is good but my start point has to be AJ Marder's 'dreadnought to Scapa flow' vols 1-5 which they are currently reprinting btw. Marder spent a lot of time with people who served in the grand fleet as well as other primary sources. John Campbell's 'Analysis of the Fighting at Jutland'
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by wegman58 »

For some interesting reading this is a good collection of articles - most of the authors know what they are talking about:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/index_tech.htm

I went to the site looking for an article on the American 'Standard Type' Battleship (related to the pedigree of USS ARKANSAS) and then decided why not link to the whole list. Here is the USS WW I battlewagon article:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-071.htm
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by JohnDillworth »

BTW, the 2nd best naval game in the world is Storm Eagles Jutland. This game is fun, detailed and historically accurate. And yes, I know the audience I am speaking to :-). http://www.stormpowered.com/stormcloud/ ... /index.asp
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RE: WWI BBs saved, doomed Brit Empire

Post by Lecivius »

ORIGINAL: wegman58

For some interesting reading this is a good collection of articles - most of the authors know what they are talking about:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/index_tech.htm

I went to the site looking for an article on the American 'Standard Type' Battleship (related to the pedigree of USS ARKANSAS) and then decided why not link to the whole list. Here is the USS WW I battlewagon article:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-071.htm

Dang. Interesting stuff, there.
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