Captian Queeg

[Footslogger]

What do we know about Captain Queeg? Its been roughly been 60 years since "The Caine Mutiny" movie came out.

Here is an excerpt from the film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-95QqBXLG2I

[dr.hal]

A fantastic movie and book, which I recommend that every naval officer (or even military officer) should see or read.

[Footslogger]

In this scene, Captain Queeg is asking for help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dstDZ9cruiY

My Question is, why didn't they help the Captain? How was this movie viewed when it came out in 1954?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

A fantastic movie and book, which I recommend that every naval officer (or even military officer) should see or read.

We had a two-hour lecture on leadership at OCS that used long scenes from the movie to introduce teaching points. The same course also used "Twelve O'clock High" to make different points.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Humphrey Bogart's last great movie

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

In this scene, Captain Queeg is asking for help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dstDZ9cruiY

My Question is, why didn't they help the Captain? How was this movie viewed when it came out in 1954?

I read that author Herman Wouk wasn't happy with it.

[pontiouspilot]

I just re-watched this last week. There was more detail about Queeg in book as I recall. Believe it or not he seemed more sympathetic in movie.

[msieving1]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Humphrey Bogart's last great movie

It was a great performance, but Bogart was far too old for the role. Wouk established in the book that Queeg graduated the Naval Academy in 1935, which would make him 30 or 31 years old when he took command in 1943. DMS service was a young man's game.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Bogart's performance make you feel sympathetic to captain Queeg. And I guess the rationale for his age (and the same can be argued about Capt. DeVriess) was that they were "leftovers" from the real navy.

What would be the WITPAE stats for Captain Queeg? my guess is:
- Leadership 25
- Inspiration 20
- Naval 50
- Admin 55
- Aggress 30

[jmalter]

hi Jorge,
my take would exchange your values for Naval & Aggression.

Another book in this vein that I highly enjoyed & recommend:
Jan de Hartog's "The Captain".

[crsutton]

I don't think Wouk was a great writer. But this was a great story. One of his best. I actually thought the movie was better than the book. Bogart did a great job.

[Symon]

Wouk was a great writer. It was indeed a great story (because he was a great writer); and he was very good at juxtaposing events, as well as individuals. Just where do you get your "Wouk wasn't a good writer" nonsense from?

The movie had nothing whatever to do with the book. That is not the point of 'movies'. Movies back then, existed to make you feel good.

Queeg was a totally different character in the book, than he was in the movie. One might like one over the other, but one must realize, it's only a Hollywood movie, but Phillip Francis Queeg was an utterly different character in the two media. So was Willis Sewerd Keith, So was everyone portrayed in the movie.

Read books. Learn language. Forget pissant Hollywierd media horse manure. You will be better for it. and might just become a wiser and more perceptive individual.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Symon

Wouk was a great writer. It was indeed a great story (because he was a great writer); and he was very good at juxtaposing events, as well as individuals. Just where do you get your "Wouk wasn't a good writer" nonsense from?

The movie had nothing whatever to do with the book. That is not the point of 'movies'. Movies back then, existed to make you feel good.

Queeg was a totally different character in the book, than he was in the movie. One might like one over the other, but one must realize, it's only a Hollywood movie, but Phillip Francis Queeg was an utterly different character in the two media. So was Willis Sewerd Keith, So was everyone portrayed in the movie.

Read books. Learn language. Forget pissant Hollywierd media horse manure. You will be better for it. and might just become a wiser and more perceptive individual.

Have you ever read Marjaroe Morningstar? [>:] Ok to be fair, I read Caine Mutiny forty years ago and agree it deserves another read. I just downloaded the books on tape from the library and will report back.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Symon

Wouk was a great writer. It was indeed a great story (because he was a great writer); and he was very good at juxtaposing events, as well as individuals. Just where do you get your "Wouk wasn't a good writer" nonsense from?

The movie had nothing whatever to do with the book. That is not the point of 'movies'. Movies back then, existed to make you feel good.

Queeg was a totally different character in the book, than he was in the movie. One might like one over the other, but one must realize, it's only a Hollywood movie, but Phillip Francis Queeg was an utterly different character in the two media. So was Willis Sewerd Keith, So was everyone portrayed in the movie.

Read books. Learn language. Forget pissant Hollywierd media horse manure. You will be better for it. and might just become a wiser and more perceptive individual.

Haven't read the book, but I think I will now (or perhaps audio book).

Regarding the movie, Jose Ferrer was awesome in his character's moral summation of events and real responsibilities.

[Bullwinkle58]

To make the trifecta complete, there was also a once-famous two-act play of the court martial only, adapted by Wouk from the movie/book. It was done live on TV in the mid-1950s and had several runs in theater. Looking at the Wiki I learned that (!!!!!) Joe Namath got his only stage credit as a stand-in for the normal actor playing Maryk.

Read all about it. Fascinating stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Caine_ ... rt-Martial

[ByronBond]

I am a 1984 grad of USNA and "The Caine Mutiny Court Martial" was in fact required reading and used for leadership training at the Naval Academy while I was there. Coincidentally, later, as a LT instructor at Surface Warfare Officer's School I became a qualified lead instructor of the LMET (Leadership Management Education Training IIRC) course that Bullwinkle58 references (or a predecessor/successor course - sorry Bullwinkle have no idea when you went to OCS [:)]. And yes, in that course Twelve O'Clock High was used as a training tool. Teaching LMET was in addition to my 2 main teaching duties - destroyer tactics and shipboard management.

My own experience is that many of the points made by the courses and instructors using those two plays/movies have stuck with me for life, for the better. (IMO).

[bartrat]

Bogart did the movie at a LOW pay scale because he liked the role. I think his age worked well, I always thought of him (in the movie version) of a man who had aged too quickly and was worn out.

[Bullwinkle58]

I was commissioned Nov. 7, 1980. I don't think it was called LMET yet (a blast from the past), but that's what it was. As I think about it, I think "Caine" was used in the OCS course, and "Twelve O'Clock" had been added by the time I got Round Two at Sub School in the summer of 1981. The OCS segment showed several long excerpts from the movie. The one I remember best was the "who has the conn?" scene on the bridge during the typhoon. They had been pounding the idea of "conn" into us in the dry trainer and on the YPs, but the movie made the light bulb come on for a lot of OCs.

Oh, yeah, that part about not back-stabbing fellow officers too. [:)]

[ByronBond]

That wiki link you posted actually has a well-written summary of the play. Whoever wrote the wiki entry spent time either in a leadership course or American Lit class that focused on the same points I recall from a class 30+ years ago. For those here interested but without the time or interest to read the whole thing, that wiki is a reasonably good 'Cliff Notes' (do they still make those?) version.

When I watched Twelve O'Clock High as a young Ensign, I don't think it really stuck with me what the point was. It was only after a few years in the fleet and the first Tanker War that it started to make sense. I hope I was at least mildly effective in sharing those insights with the newly minted Ensigns when it became my turn to show them the movie and discuss the sometimes high price of leadership. But even then I knew that I had not experienced that high cost myself - and as my life turned out, never really had to.

[Bullwinkle58]

ToCH had a lot of leadership tips. Peck's character of course on a personal level, setting an example, working harder than your men, etc. But the one technique that stuck with me and which I saw used in industry by good leaders too was the "Leper Colony." It works on several levels. Even if it fails it puts all the problem children in one visible spot where their F-ups hurt their team alone, and if it works you get more-fully-formed followers back into the pack. Using pride as a reverse whammy is a good way to go. A lot better than "the beatings will continue until morale improves" approach of a lot of "leaders."

The other thing I got from those courses and which I still tell people I know having trouble with bosses is that here's a difference between leadership and management. Lead people, manage things.

We had a BMCS teaching part of the course at OCS. He had wrangled fuel bladders up the river into Hue during the Tet Offensive. He'd never read Shakespeare but I would have followed him anywhere. He took us through the Triangle of Leadership: Authority, Accountability, Responsibility. The difference between accountability and responsibility has never left me. I sometimes can be found yelling at the TV when some suit or politician says "I was responsible for that mistake." "No!" I shout. "You're ACCOUNTABLE. You delegated responsibility to that other poor sucker you fired, but you still have a job. Why is that?!"