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New map - West Berlin, British Sector

 
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New map - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/16/2014 5:17:37 PM   
Plodder


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This is a map of central West Berlin in 1989. It's going to be used in a scenario or scenarios of a Warsaw Pact assault on West Berlin. (Coming Soon!TM)

Overview:


Full size snippet:


Map is now available here: http://www.ontargetsimulations.com/OTS/RedStorm/MapsNew/Plodder West Berlin 1989 Map.zip



----------------------------------Original Post Below---------------------------------------------


I've put remaking the official maps on hold for a bit as I'm currently working on a Berlin map for a series of scenarios based on Operation Center. This was the Warsaw Pact plan to conquer West Berlin. I'm going to make the map centered on the British sector as this was where the main thrust was going to be. I'll probably do a map of the American sector at some point as well.

The map is slightly larger than the standard maps, its approx. 22 Km wide and 16km deep. I've got the terrain done, now it's the road net, forests and urban areas to go:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by The Plodder -- 11/18/2014 7:13:22 AM >


_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."
Post #: 1
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/16/2014 7:55:51 PM   
SwampYankee68


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Looks cool, and sounds like a good scenario. Your maps are fantastic, Plodder.

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RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/16/2014 8:36:48 PM   
TheWombat

 

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Cool. I lived in Berlin around 1970-71 and then lived and worked there between 1988-90. It sure would have been a horror show if there had been this sort of fighting for real, but it makes an interesting scenario concept I think.

(in reply to SwampYankee68)
Post #: 3
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/16/2014 8:39:02 PM   
CapnDarwin


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From: Newark, OH
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Very cool looking map. Can't wait to try it out.

_____________________________

Work on Southern Storm continues! Very busy times right now.

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

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Post #: 4
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/18/2014 1:36:06 PM   
Plodder


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Road net is done. I've added more roads and streets than are necessary, as this gives me distinct blocks that will enable me to break up the pattern on the urban texture. Next up is forests and fields..





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 5
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/18/2014 1:45:21 PM   
CapnDarwin


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Looking good.

_____________________________

Work on Southern Storm continues! Very busy times right now.

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 6
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/18/2014 6:52:28 PM   
Mad Russian


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From: Texas
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I came within an inch of doing a Berlin map. Nice to see you doing one.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 7
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/18/2014 8:58:13 PM   
WildCatNL


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Looking very good. Just curious, how is your experience getting this (or a recolored version of it) understood by the Map Values editor?

William

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RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/18/2014 9:11:46 PM   
battlerbritain

 

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I'd be interested in playing this

I remember playing SPI's 'Berlin 85' waaay back when and the great map that went with that. I've still got my copy as well.

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RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/18/2014 9:54:46 PM   
Plodder


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From: New Zealand
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

I came within an inch of doing a Berlin map. Nice to see you doing one.


I've been wanting to do it since I found out about Zentrum while making the battlefield tour.

quote:

ORIGINAL: W1ll14m

Looking very good. Just curious, how is your experience getting this (or a recolored version of it) understood by the Map Values editor?

William


Thanks. Haven't attempted it yet.I'll try it once I'm happy with the map. I'll have to make a special map values version to do it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: battlerbritain

I'd be interested in playing this

I remember playing SPI's 'Berlin 85' waaay back when and the great map that went with that. I've still got my copy as well.


Thanks for reminding me about Berlin '85, there was some good background material that came with that iirc.


_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 10
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/19/2014 12:49:14 AM   
Plodder


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From: New Zealand
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Forests and fields complete, now the fun part of adding the urban textures.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 11
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/19/2014 6:33:44 AM   
rjlee

 

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That looks excellent! Love the airfield!

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RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/19/2014 10:55:38 AM   
CapnDarwin


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William, the AutoMap Values function only works for maps made from the OTS hexdraw art. Once you use custom art, the scanning process has no idea what it is looking at and you have to enter all the values manually with the editor.

_____________________________

Work on Southern Storm continues! Very busy times right now.

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to rjlee)
Post #: 13
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/19/2014 2:11:29 PM   
Plodder


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From: New Zealand
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

William, the AutoMap Values function only works for maps made from the OTS hexdraw art. Once you use custom art, the scanning process has no idea what it is looking at and you have to enter all the values manually with the editor.


Do you mean the actual art or do you mean the rgb values from the spreadsheet guide?

_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 14
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/19/2014 3:31:12 PM   
Plodder


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From: New Zealand
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A quick update before I go to bed. I've done the North west corner up to the border. I'm trying to get the mix of urban terrain and fields correct so it's taking a while..




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 15
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/20/2014 3:40:53 AM   
Mad Russian


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Outstanding!!

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 16
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/20/2014 11:13:57 AM   
MikeGER

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
Outstanding!!

+1

i guess playing on Plodder's new Berlin map(s) and i am loosing badly against the AI will look like that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7PmzdINGZk


Plodder please add the German names of the 'city boroughs' to your map

here are the names
(well, this is the situation today, but AFAIK the historical names (small print) didnt change and coucd be used
but the local city goverment responsibility for the collection of them into Bezirke (fat print) has changed)

[image]
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Berlin%2C_administrative_divisions_%28%2Bdistricts_%2Bboroughs_-pop%29_-_de_-_colored_%28less_colors%29.svg/2000px-Berlin%2C_administrative_divisions_%28%2Bdistricts_%2Bboroughs_-pop%29_-_de_-_colored_%28less_colors%29.svg.png
[/image]

< Message edited by MikeGER -- 8/20/2014 12:31:05 PM >

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 17
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/20/2014 2:03:22 PM   
Plodder


Posts: 997
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From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeGER

Plodder please add the German names of the 'city boroughs' to your map

here are the names
(well, this is the situation today, but AFAIK the historical names (small print) didnt change and coucd be used
but the local city goverment responsibility for the collection of them into Bezirke (fat print) has changed)


I'm planning to. I have a huge copy of a 1985 map of Berlin which I am using for my template, it doesn't show the elevations or extent of urban areas but it's excellent for the road net and borders. It's also got the names of all the districts as they were back then so no worries on that front.

I've been busy working on the south west of the map, Gross Glienicke and Kladow areas are done. This is the area where a British Btn was based at Montgomery Barracks and RAF Gatow. There was also a East German border guards unit in the area as well.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by The Plodder -- 8/24/2014 2:15:14 AM >


_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to MikeGER)
Post #: 18
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/20/2014 2:04:18 PM   
Plodder


Posts: 997
Joined: 7/28/2003
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
Still got a long way to go though.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 19
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/20/2014 4:18:19 PM   
Mad Russian


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Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
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It takes a good while to create maps like these. The question we most often get asked is why our maps weren't as pretty as <insert modder's name here> maps. This is one huge reason why. I could make one of our maps in a few days. We created more than 25 maps. We all have full time jobs just like you do and we would be still at the stage of making the maps instead of contemplating the next release if we had gone to the level you're going to.

I like these maps. They are great looking but they simply take too long for us to have used them 'in the beginning'.

Can't wait to see how this looks when you get it finished.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 8/21/2014 12:07:37 AM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 20
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/20/2014 4:45:38 PM   
CapnDarwin


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Plodder, my reply to your question apparently got lost in the Verizon void. The spreadsheet values are the target RGB value of the OTS art for the HexDraw maps. The Automapping function is hard coded to look for and tally up those values to determine the composition of a hex and apply the game related values to the location. A custom map not made with these colors as the vast majority of pixels will not scan properly. Thus, if making a new map with other art/colors requires the hand entry of all the values in the editor.

Hope this helps and makes sense. Add posts this time.

_____________________________

Work on Southern Storm continues! Very busy times right now.

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 21
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/20/2014 5:10:32 PM   
Plodder


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From: New Zealand
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Plodder, my reply to your question apparently got lost in the Verizon void. The spreadsheet values are the target RGB value of the OTS art for the HexDraw maps. The Automapping function is hard coded to look for and tally up those values to determine the composition of a hex and apply the game related values to the location. A custom map not made with these colors as the vast majority of pixels will not scan properly. Thus, if making a new map with other art/colors requires the hand entry of all the values in the editor.

Hope this helps and makes sense. Add posts this time.


So once I've finished this map, if I make a copy and change all the colours on it to the official ones,I should be ok to use that to automap?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

It takes a good while to create maps like these. The most often question we get is why our maps weren't as pretty as <insert modder's name here> maps. This is one huge reason why. I could make one of our maps in a few days. We created more than 25 maps. We all have full time jobs just like you do and we would be still at the stage of making the maps instead of contemplating the next release if we had gone to the level you're going to.


Yeah, this map is definitely going to take a while, I'm constantly re-aligning hills and such, as well as working out what terrain to put where.I'm also constantly researching to see what area was built up in 1989. It's a lot of fun. I'm enjoying it more than the remakes though, as this is entirely my own creation and I'm really going to town with it.

_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 22
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/21/2014 10:47:40 PM   
Plodder


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From: New Zealand
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I've made a mock up of part of the map for testing to make sure I'm on the right track. I'm going to hack up this map to test it in the auto mappper.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 23
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/21/2014 11:11:00 PM   
WildCatNL


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From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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Plodder, what works for me is using partially transparent patterns for the urban / forest / fields areas (1 color suffices), so the Map Values tool is still able to see the underlying elevation color.
See the image below (GIS data from Osnabrueck rendered in FCRS compatible colors, with manual stream placement).

Getting the roads to be recognized proved hardest for me. I fell back on the 2.01 Map Values editor.

William




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

OTS "garden boy"

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 24
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/21/2014 11:43:40 PM   
Plodder


Posts: 997
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From: New Zealand
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Nice! I just used the colour replace tool in paint shop pro:





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by The Plodder -- 8/22/2014 12:43:59 AM >


_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 25
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/21/2014 11:53:56 PM   
WildCatNL


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From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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With those forest/lake combinations, be sure to set the edge buffer zone value to its max (9 pixels), so the scanner doesn't see too much of the forest pixels spilling into lake. It might end up with a combination of Forest, Lake.
The fact that you started out with a Hex grid is going to be very helpful.

Good luck. I look forward to your Berlin.

William

_____________________________

OTS "garden boy"

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 26
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/25/2014 11:23:46 AM   
Plodder


Posts: 997
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From: New Zealand
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Using the re-coloured map worked quite nicely, I did have to save the map for the roads to be recognised though. I haven't made a huge amount of progress the last few days due to work but I made quite a few changes to the elevations as I managed to obtain a height map from the Berlin city council site. My previous attempt was from GE data and dead reckoning but the council data is accurate to 20cm so I've gone off that. I've also extended the map 3 km east to include more of central Berlin and the Wall.

< Message edited by The Plodder -- 8/25/2014 3:30:08 PM >


_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 27
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/25/2014 2:24:19 PM   
Plodder


Posts: 997
Joined: 7/28/2003
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
Forgot to add a pic. Here's the new elevations:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 28
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/25/2014 2:27:43 PM   
Plodder


Posts: 997
Joined: 7/28/2003
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
..and here's where I'm at overall. I still have to extend the road net and Wall:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 29
RE: New map WIP - West Berlin, British Sector - 8/25/2014 3:27:50 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 7408
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline
Just a great looking map.

_____________________________

Work on Southern Storm continues! Very busy times right now.

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Plodder)
Post #: 30
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