Operation Folgore

Post descriptions of your brilliant successes and unfortunate demises.

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GBOATZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:55 pm

Operation Folgore

Post by GBOATZ »

Operation Folgore

This was an interesting scenario as there were a number of ways to achieve victory.

The mission was to destroy all military facilities on the Libyan coast, their air defense, disable their air force bases and destroy their small navy, including three Russian imported submarines, in order to clear the way for an amphibious assault.

Logistically, destroying the Libyan bases and air defense would be a bit of a problem as the majority of the Italian strike aircraft were stationed far to the north and too far to attack Libyan bases or air defense anytime soon, (at least 8 to 12 hours) even with tanker support, so the first thing to do was to use both the carrier and existing fighter aircraft at southern bases to start clearing the skies while I moved attack aircraft to the south. I also set two Tanker support missions for the fighter aircraft so there would always be a cap over my two carriers.

Finally, I began ferrying all aircraft from northern Italy bases (Attack and fighters) to my primary southern base of operations at Signorella that would allow me reach to the entire Libyan coast.

After attriting a number of Libyan planes and establishing air superiority, I sent my carriers forward and armed two groups of Harriers with Mavericks to go after two respective groups of Libyan Naval Patrol Boats and was successful in sinking them all. I then brought the Carriers back north to keep them out of the path of any subs. After about 8 hours, I had enough Tornado ECR's loaded with HARM's and with fighter escort to go in and begin taking out the Libyan coastal air defense. I was also fortunate as one of the Libyan attack packages headed for my easternmost Carrier blundered right into the path of my fighters escorting the Tornado's and I shot most of them down and only two of the Libyans even got close enough to fire a few guided weapons which my Carrier group escort dealt with easily.

Finally, when I determined that very few Libyan fighter or attack aircraft remained, I sent in Italian Bombers to decimate their airports and facilities until I received a triumph score. At one point, a message was fired that Qaddafi was spotted in a BMP trying to escape, but it was near the end of the game and I already had enough points not to risk my attack planes searching for a single HVT so I ignored that message and continued my bombing campaign until Triumph!

One minor problem with one of my fighters going after some of the Libyan Navy ships even though I never directed it to and lost two bombers due to fuel deprivation that had to do with bad planning on my part. Otherwise, everything else went well.




Triumph 1005 Points

SIDE: Italy
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x EF2000 Eurofighter Typhoon
1x Tornado IDS
2x AMX [A-11 Ghibli]


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
372x AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM P3I.2
39x AN/SSQ-53E DIFAR
4x AIM-9L Sidewinder
18x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
58x AIM-2000A IRIS-T
23x Generic Chaff Salvo [8x Cartridges]
6x 27mm Mauser BK-27 Burst [30 rnds]
7x Ariel TRD
72x AGM-88B HARM
24x Otomat Mk2 Mod IV
3x Otomat Mk2 Mod I
16x Aster 30 PAAMS [GWS.45 Sea Viper]
14x AGM-65E Maverick Laser
56x Mk82 500lb LDGP



SIDE: Lybia
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
5x Mirage F.1ED
27x MiG-23MF Flogger B
24x MiG-23MS Flogger E
24x MiG-25P Foxbat A
10x Su-24MK Fencer D
8x MiG-23BN Flogger H
2x Mirage 5DE
8x MiG-25P Foxbat A
4x Su-20M Fitter D
12x MiG-21MF Fishbed J
10x Su-22M-3K Fitter J
6x 518 Sharara [La Combattante IIG]
2x F 212 Al Hani [Pr.1159 Koni]
2x 416 Ziyad [Pr.1234E Nanuchka II]
1x Radar (AR-1)
12x Su-22M Fitter F
4x Mirage 5D
2x Vehicle (Flat Face B [P-19])
1x SA-3b Goa Quad Rail
3x Vehicle (Spoon Rest C [P-12])
9x SA-2d Guideline Mod 2 Single Rail
5x SA-7a Grail [9K32 Strela-2] MANPADS
3x Vehicle (Fan Song E [SNR-75M3])
2x Building (Odd Pair HF [PRV-13])
2x SA-5c Gammon Single Rail
2x Building (Tall King C [P-14])
3x Radar (DR-151)
3x A/C Tarmac Space (2x Large Aircraft)
1x A/C Hangar (2x Medium Aircraft)
1x Building (Square Pair [5N62])
6x SSC-3 Styx TELAR [3P51]
1x AvGas (200k Liter Underground Tank)


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
2x Super R.530F
51x SA-5c Gammon [5V28M5]
47x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
18x AA-6 Acrid A [R-40R, SARH]
36x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
5x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral]
9x Generic Flare Salvo [2x Cartridges, Single Spectral]
7x AA-7 Apex A [R-23R, SARH]
4x AK-230 30mm/65 Twin Burst [50 rnds]
4x AK-726 76mm/60 Twin Frag Burst [2 rnds]
28x SA-N-4a Gecko [9M33M]
10x PK-16 Chaff [TSP-60U]
2x AK-725 57mm/80 Twin Frag Burst [6 rnds]
2x AK-725 57mm/80 Twin HE Burst [6 rnds]
5x AK-726 76mm/60 Twin HE Burst [2 rnds]
8x AA-2a Atoll [R-3S]
2x AS-9 Kyle [Kh-28]
12x 40mm/70 Twin Breda Compact Burst [32 rnds]
5x 76mm/62 Compact HE Burst [4 rnds]



magi
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:06 am

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by magi »

after my first wave of sead missions in the west... reducing their air defenses system... got the message Qaddafi was on the run... sent an element of my escorts in low to hose him down.. the first had them in flames.. the second element killed them all.... game over... and i sent hours planing all these strikes packages... they were in route.... darn....
what i learned.... the greatest weakness the itialians had was lack of electronic warfare assists..... ECM's....
GBOATZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:55 pm

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by GBOATZ »

Hi Magi, I noticed too, the lack of ECM weapons available and all my Harms weren't going to be enough to get 800 points attacking the bases defenses. Consequently I went after all the Libyan Planes I could to make up the difference. By the time I saw the Qaddafi message I already had over 700 points and decided it wouldn't be worth losing points to send my attack planes after him. Glad you were able to get him! [;)]
magi
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:06 am

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by magi »

Ya... Gboatz.... Most of my game was establishing Control of the air..... I had to manage my interceptors and munitions... Micro Managing refueling was the biggest pain in this game... If they made one more big push... I may have been overwhelmed..... The harriers really filled the gap well...
It was kinda fun..... Just love this gams......
GBOATZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:55 pm

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by GBOATZ »

Yeah there were a lot more fighters than I counted on at the beginning as I was ferrying more from the north, but I mentioned in my comments that I managed the refuel issue for fighters by creating TWO separate refuel points with the Hercules to cover both Carriers and I was lucky that a large formation of Libyan attack aircraft "stumbled" right into one of my fighter caps where I shot down quite a few and just behind them was another! I was almost reminded about what Wellington said about the French in the Napoleonic Wars: "They came in the same old way, and we defeated them in the same old way." Most of the Fitter attack aircraft only had very short range missiles while the Typhoons were better so I turned off the "RTB at Winchester" and took out many of them that way and saved the AAMRAAMS for the Foxbats. [8D]
magi
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:06 am

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by magi »

That's interesting..... I'm an old Harpooner... I played for ten twelve years.. I'm from a military family and heve worked on a number of DOD jobs...i used to keep up with naval and military affaires..... Talk to the guys... Read Proceedings etc etc..... But I've been away from it for ten years os so..... While tactics are essentially the same capabilities have increased considerably.... There are more variables you can manipulate in the way you can prosecute missions with advanced system that modern militaries have now.... A lot to learn.... I just love it... I often spend hours going through the data base becoming familiar with all the assets.....
It was quite awhile that I was into the scenario before I realized how much more able the aim2000 ir missiles were... Then like you I had them stay on station and used them to prosecute beta Libyan aircraft..... I wished I used them as such earlier in the game....
What scenario are you going to play next..? I will play it and we can compare notes this is kind of fun......
GBOATZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:55 pm

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by GBOATZ »

Hi Magi,

Thank you for your insight and opinions. I too, am an old harpooner for many, many years and, in fact, still have Harpoon 97 loaded on my computer and a TON of scenarios that I still play from time to time!

I must admit in advance that with regards to CMANO I am a poor strategist as it often takes me a while to figure out exactly what I'm supposed to be doing on many of the community scenarios. What I've found is my particular preference are those scenarios that provide a very clear cut mission, where you're to go from point A to point B, find the enemy and en route "Attack and Defend." More, I don't particularly select missions where you can't shoot at anyone, or have to scratch your head trying to decipher all the political ramifications if I do this or that.

Consequently, unless I find a scenario that meets my criteria, I find myself re-playing many of the missions that I do like, but have yet to receive a "Triumph." One in particular is "Canary Cage" with Spain vs NAIL. I have recently begun re-playing it again but if you'd like we can start at the beginning. I'd be willing to have you share your insight regarding this mission as frankly my strategy has yet to work completely. I have tried several different variations for a win on this scenario but I have yet to do so. This is my current strategy list as I began the scenario:

A) I intend changing the course of the leading Spanish Aircraft Carrier group (but not the follow on Spanish Amphibious Group) that is to provide air cover and support as I want to avoid running directly into whatever the scenario's author may have conveniently placed there waiting for them. I think it will also give me more opportunity for a better ASW sweep, locate enemy shipping and move my AEW assets closer,

B. I also wish to convert as many planes to fighters as possible at the beginning of the mission to clear the skies of enemy fighters, ASW Helos and AEW planes and provide an ongoing AAW patrol zone above both of my surface groups.

B. Create dual refueling zones: one for AAW and a second for Attack Aircraft then use aircraft (if possible) to take out enemy shipping instead of waiting for other assets, like harpoons from my ships or my very slow diesel subs, to sink them.

C. Take out Algerian and Morocco air bases at the beginning of the game to cut down on "nuisance" attacks against my surface groups. Also have to be careful not to re-assign the attack planes to the closest home base as i discovered (too late) that base has NO Attack munitions; just air to air.

D. Finally, take out radars and enemy assets around landing area with HARM and bombs to clear a path for Amphibious group. This will take a while as the attacking planes have a long way to go to get there and will need refueling and perhaps a fighter escort.

So, Canary Cage is the scenario I intend to re-play next. I may have you at a disadvantage as like I said, I've played this scenario before, but have never been successful. Let me know what you think?
magi
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:06 am

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by magi »

Gboatz.......

Yes some of the briefings are ambiguous and vague..... And the storyline of some of the scenarios are ridiculous.... This Canary one is really totally absurd Islamo phobia.... Suffering from completely surreal regional political historical realities.... However it is a mission and I will play the game.....

Addendum.... Well... I'm near a hour into it... 0 minutes game time.... Checking all my assets out.... The Spanish AAW frigates arnt bad have a decent VLS load out... Moving one out to the east a little to have a bit of layered defense... The OH Perry's have good ASW suites... Putting one of them in front of each group....
The leading assault group having one AEW asset is silly... That their assault carrier has no SAM's or even Cwiz is startling.... Sending a P3 to them to help..... Doing all the usual stuff.... Launching AEW Elint CAP's.. ASW Patrols in front of each group.....
I loaded aircraft with AAW loadouts.... Per your suggestion.... Their were no creditable strike groups ready to go anyway that I could see... I took advantage of the "Ready Now" option... Nice of the designer... Thank you very much... Since I can't strike... I will try to destroy or seriously attrit their Air Force in the air...
I'm very disappointed with spread between the two groups.... I would prefer them as one and split them before the objective....... You could really defend in depth that way....
Just have to shift a few platforms around in the lead group and I will be ready to push the start button......
The brief gives so little intelligence on Red Force OBO and Disposition...... If Red has enough assist to simultaneously attack my surface groups and my air bases.... That will be bad.... and unreal.... Cause then NATO would be involved for sure.... In the real world... Per treaty.. I believe they would be involved now.....
GBOATZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:55 pm

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by GBOATZ »

With regard to the story lines, somebody has to be the bad guys and the middle east is the "enemy du jour" so it is what it is.[;)]

Okay, now with regard to the groups, I agree that both groups have a pretty good anti missile screen, but have also taken your advice and sent a P3 forward with fighters to look for subs. As I mentioned before I have set a Zig zag path for the Aircraft carrier group and established both AAW and ASW missions. Gotta wait a while for attack craft and will send the first available planes to knock out Morocco and Algerian airports. Meanwhile, its time to set up a tanker mission and start to knock down some planes! [:)]
magi
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:06 am

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by magi »

Gboatz...

Cool..... I lost this long post to you...darn...
Well I'm into my first hour of the game... Have the groups set up... ASW patrols in front... Hoping to close my groups up some before they are discovered.... Have a bunch of fighters heading south to contest the air space....
There my be a couple of things going our way.... I don't see that they have any search assist up... That's real good....
There are F16's out with Harpoons heading west looking for my surface groups.... I've shot one down with a couple of Harriers....
Here is the good news... They are using Aim7's... They must maintain illumination on their target...... So I'm rushing in perty close... and when they fire or are about to fire... I fire... They then have to turn to defend themselves... and lose missile lock... When I did this... It took 4 Aim120's... But the next time.. I'll rush in fire 1 missile then try to run up on them and fire a sidewinder up the it tail pipe... I hope....
Time to play... Be back later....

greatTop
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:10 am

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by greatTop »

Hello guys, really happy you liked the scenario, I have to admit I'm a bit supprised that you can win by "triumph" without killing gaddafi. My bad, I guess I did a mistake with the scoring system. But I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Regarding the ECM problem, well there wasn't much I could do, as Italians don't have any ECM Aircrafts !

Here's a link of a very similar scenario:
Operation Fennec
magi
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:06 am

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by magi »

Ola greatTop....... I killed that bum... But Gboatz said he just racked up the points to victory.....
Isn't that amazing.... No fast attack jammers........ How do they sleep a night.....
Thank you... It was really fun..... I also liked that it was so plausible story line......
Thank you for the new treat.... Will check it out.....
GBOATZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:55 pm

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by GBOATZ »

Hi Great Top, It said in your briefing that 800 points was necessary and once I accumulated a certain amount over that amount I received a Triumph and frankly I'm glad I didn't have to waste assets going after Qadaffi to win as I was too busy blowing up stuff and breaking things[:D]

I'll be sure to check out Operation Fennec at my first opportunity! Keep up the good work! [:)]
GBOATZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:55 pm

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by GBOATZ »

Vis a vis using sidewinders in lieu of Aamramm's is good insight. Save your long range stuff for their more capable planes as they DO have some Foxbats. Also don't be surprised if your ASW screen find a few sub-surface "surprises" LOL I'll allow you to discover that for yourself [:D]

Until later
magi
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:06 am

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by magi »

well its a good idea... but executing it im finding difficult.. i can get them to turn and lose lock.. done it 4 times... three kills and a mission kill.... but 7ea Aim120's... they deploying their air assets piecemeal is not smart...
i figured there would be sub issues.... i think im ready for them...
basically what im trying to do is have control of the battle and control the tempo of battle... not just be reacting to them as i move south..
you know... in the real world.. given this mission and it objectives we would have first strike on their bases and and C2 centers...
if you have enough time to assemble an expeditionary force... there is more than enough time to prepare strike packages... all just normal planing... oh well... im such a crybaby...
my main focus is at this point is.. to keep my surface groups position from being discovered and to close them up before that happens and to contain their airforce.....
later
magi
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:06 am

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by magi »

gboatz...... i missed some messege about beaches..? what was that...?
GBOATZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:55 pm

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by GBOATZ »

"gboatz...... i missed some messege about beaches..? what was that...?"

I'm assuming you mean the message from the designer that popped up? It said that one of your subs, the Tramontana, should proceed to the landing zone and land a commando team. Just change the course of the Montana accordingly and once you arrive you should get a confirmation message that your team has reached the beach. Be careful of your battery power if you traverse the entire route too deep!

BTW Magi, do you use the Sea Hag voice software associated with the game? This program was designed quite some time ago and I use it religiously to inform me of what going on even if I take my eyes off the game or if there is a lot of time to fill so I can do other things. I'm retired and have the leisure of running the game in real time.[:)]
magi
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:06 am

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by magi »

Gboatz....

oh thank you...... i dont know sea hag... let me check it out....

im a zulu 13:52.... almost 2 hours game time and doing ok....
as i did not have any strike loadouts.. i thought id try going in low with a couple oh harriers and gun down their sam batteries.. supported with two jammer ew helicopters... i probed a couple times and went for it at treetop level.. it was successful... so then i sent a couple elements of fa18's.... strafed there air facilities and destroyed their area radar... unfortunately they managed to get a couple more missiles off and i lost one fa18... i had to go back and shoot the sam site up some more... all in all it was very successful gun fight... like the way they did it in the old days.... i believe the base is mission dysfunctional pretty much... i also destroyed a number of aircraft on the ground.. and one that just took off to defend.... im very pleased really...
here is my score so far:

SIDE: NAIL
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x E-2C Hawkeye Group II
9x F-16C Blk 42 Falcon [Peace Vector II Upgr]
5x M192 I-HAWK
3x Mirage F.1CH-200
1x Radar (AN/TPS-63)
2x Vehicle (AN/MPQ-46 HPI)
1x Vehicle (AN/MPQ-50 PAR)
1x Vehicle (AN/MPQ-51 ROR)
GBOATZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:55 pm

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by GBOATZ »

I'm at 2 Days and 2 Hours to go. Knocked out a PB with one of my subs in the south and using Tramontana at periscope depth to monitor everything near the landing zone. So you decided to Strafe the airbase? Wow! That's pretty bold! [:D] Alas, I'm a bit more cautious and primarily going after their Amphibious Group to the Southeast. As you can see I sent a Harpoon attack from Moron after them and got one of the LPD's (Champlain)and a Frigate. Also not too much difficulty with their attack planes coming north yet. They seem to form up, head towards me, see my AAW patrol and do an about face! However, I just detected that they have another group of patrol boats in the path of my carrier. I'm debating either changing course and arming up my Harriers with Mavericks to take them out, or just jamming them until I get close enough for Harpoons. I'm re-arming my Harpoon Hornets with HARMS to knock out the Algerian and Moroccan Radars and then just bypass them, but we'll see. Now that you say its possible, I'd like to run a strafing attack just for the hell of it, but only after I knock out their radars! That really sounds like fun! [;)]

SIDE: NAIL
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
6x F-16C Blk 42 Falcon [Peace Vector II Upgr]
1x E-2C Hawkeye Group II
3x Mirage F.1CH-200
1x F 951 Najim Al Zafir [Jianghu Type 053H(E)]
1x MiG-25P Foxbat A
1x F 946 Abu Qir [Descubierta]
1x SH-2G(E) Seasprite
1x F 911 Mubarak [Perry]
2x SA.565MA Panther
1x LPD 9030 Champlain [BATRAL Class]
magi
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:06 am

RE: Operation Folgore

Post by magi »

Your doing good.....
The harriers have sensors and great targeting abilities ... They can go real low.. Day or night...
I've detected and have a fix on the pt boats in front of my lead group.. I'm Doing 5 knots.. Letting my assault force close up.... Rearming some harriers and f18's with strike munitions..... I'll go slow till they are ready...
I'm vectoring in two subs in front of their assault groups path.....
I'm contemplating going in with harriers and gun fighting the pt boats backed by jammers.... Hummm....
Going to try and leave their southern mainland airbase alone if I can.....
The thing I'm attempting now... Is rushing in on their AEW with a 2 unit.. F18 element and wack it.... Will do a faint on their assault group to lure their fighter cover away.... Cool......
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