novice questions

The new Cold War turned hot wargame from On Target Simulations, now expanded with the Player's Edition! Choose the NATO or Soviet forces in one of many scenarios or two linked campaigns. No effort was spared to model modern warfare realistically, including armor, infantry, helicopters, air support, artillery, electronic warfare, chemical and nuclear weapons. An innovative new asynchronous turn order means that OODA loops and various effects on C3 are accurately modeled as never before.

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Phoenix100
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novice questions

Post by Phoenix100 »

Couple of stupid novice questions if anyone has time to answer:

1. The unit symbols - why are they sometimes the NATO type symbols and others pictures of tanks, APCs etc?

2. IF I want a unit to move up to a bridge then blow it that MUST take 2 turns? I have to plot a route to the bridge then wait next turn to give the order to blow it?

Thanks.
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Mad Russian
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RE: novice questions

Post by Mad Russian »

1) They are NATO if they are on the ground and not armored units. They are vehicle pictures if the unit is made up of vehicles or they are on the move.

2) Yes. You must start adjacent to a bridge to give it the demolition order to blow it.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Phoenix100
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RE: novice questions

Post by Phoenix100 »

Thanks for the super-quick response, MR.

Do you mean they are vehicle pics if the unit is made up of armoured units? I mean - what is the pic of the tank, or APC etc meant to tell me - that that unit consists of armoured vehicles? And hence if I see a NATO symbol I know it's not armoured? Why are all the symbols not NATO, as a matter of interest (might be same answer as to the question - what is the picture of a tank meant to tell me)?

Many thanks.

PS: You've been asked this before, of course - but who is the guy in your avatar pic?
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Mad Russian
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RE: novice questions

Post by Mad Russian »

The pictures of the units are broken down into two categories. Those with transports that are basically infantry and those that are made up of vehicles.

Those that are infantry units will switch graphics when they move to show the main vehicle they are moving in. Whether that's a jeep, a truck, an APC or an IFV. Whatever transport the unit has. Vehicle type units only have one graphic.

My avatar is of Vasily Ivanovich Chuikov. The commander of Soviet forces at Stalingrad.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Phoenix100
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RE: novice questions

Post by Phoenix100 »

Thanks. [:)]
a1ml3ss
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RE: novice questions

Post by a1ml3ss »

suitable thread topic for a similar question - can you bridge rivers (one hex wide rivers as opposed to the thinner "border" rivers) by building an entry bridge and an exit bridge from the water hex?
tried doing this on the defence of the weser crossing scenario using amphibious APC to get across in the first place, but there were problems in the game where the order to cross ampphibiously "could not be implemented"?
IronMikeGolf
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RE: novice questions

Post by IronMikeGolf »

The kind of river you are talking about is 2 consecutive hex sides of water and that is the most you can bridge right now. Here's how to do it:

1. Move a unit next to the wide river. This is the near side. Give that unit a "Build Bridge" order.
2. When that is done, you can give the unit a movement order that goes across the river. If non-amphibious, it will "auto-bridge". If amphib, it will swim.

You can also have units on both sides do a "Build Bridge" order

You can not cross more than 2 hex sides of water, even if you have bridges on both banks.
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a1ml3ss
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RE: novice questions

Post by a1ml3ss »

thanks for this. I hope the person I'm playing doesn't read this - my last throw of the dice!
hazmaxed
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RE: novice questions

Post by hazmaxed »

How much of an effect does direct or indirect fire on the unit with the "bridge hexside" order have on the bridging process? And how long does it take to bridge 2 hexside rivers?  I know that engineering functions are pretty abstract in the game by design, and I have no problem with that.  A 2-hexside bridge probably is a pontoon bridge, and those take much longer to emplace than an AVLB, and the trucks that carry the pontoons are much more vulnerable to direct and indirect fire than an AVLB is.
 
GDW's Assault game series (the Bundeswehr module) has some pretty detailed engineering rules, for a board game.  I'm going to dig those rules out tonight (if I can find them) and see what that designer has to say about pontoon bridges.
There is no overkill. There is only "open fire" and "reloading."
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CapnDarwin
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RE: novice questions

Post by CapnDarwin »

Bridging take about 30 minutes and there are some modifiers for country and readiness throw in too. We are also looking into an issue with engineering timings not working as desired. It is causing the know issues with mines and obstacles not clearing properly at times.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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hazmaxed
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RE: novice questions

Post by hazmaxed »

The Assault rules allow the player to construct 54 meters of pontoon bridge every 5-minute game turn. 30 minutes to bridge a single hexside in FCRS seems like a good amount of time, when you take into account the need to get the equipment in place at the crossing site. I'm pretty sure the bridging engineers aren't right behind the panzers.
There is no overkill. There is only "open fire" and "reloading."
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Mad Russian
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RE: novice questions

Post by Mad Russian »

ORIGINAL: hazmaxed

I'm pretty sure the bridging engineers aren't right behind the panzers.

Mine are! [:D]

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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wodin
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RE: novice questions

Post by wodin »

Will we be able to give an entrench order at some point in the future?
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CapnDarwin
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RE: novice questions

Post by CapnDarwin »

Wodin, are you looking for a "Dig In" command?
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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IronMikeGolf
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RE: novice questions

Post by IronMikeGolf »

I hope folks know what they are asking for when they talk about "Entrench" or "Dig In" with regards to game play.

You are looking at 12-24 hours of game time before the battle to accomplish that. And it likely results in a single primary position per dismounted buddy-team and fighting vehicle. And that's assuming not interference by some recon team calling in H&I fires.

I suspect this will be one of those "sim vs game" topics.
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cbelva
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RE: novice questions

Post by cbelva »

One thing that I think is "gamey" and I would like to see improved is adding a delay once a unit enters a hold profile before they are considered "dug in". In fact they really aren't in foxholes or trenches. That literally takes hours. They are basically finding and taking advantage of natural cover (maybe scrapping shallow holes or piling up some rocks). Units in a "screen" are said to be in a "covered" profile which is basically laying in a prone position or taking advantage of natural cover. A unit in a "hold profile" is said to be dug in. But in reality they are not in what we think of as foxholes. They are taking advantage of natural coverage and have scrapped out shallow holes or piled up rocks for protection. AFVs would be in hulled down positions is possible. They would not have had the time in the game to have dug trenches or foxholes. Units that are in fortified positions would be the ones in foxholes or trenches. Unit in fortified positions are said to be "fortified". Fortifications are set by the scenario designer.

I would like to see a delay for units that have stopped moving with a hold order before they actually get to take advantage of the "hold" or "dug in" profile. It would take a period of time to scrap out a shallow hole, position AFVs in hull down, set fire lanes, etc. You would see units with a hold profile go from being considered just covered to dug in protection (but don't think of them in foxholes--because they aren't).
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MikeGER
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RE: novice questions

Post by MikeGER »

ORIGINAL: cbelva

One thing that I think is "gamey" and I would like to see improved is adding a delay once a unit enters a hold profile before they are considered "dug in"....

from my undertaning of the manual:

"Dug In – The unit has taken at least a half hour of uninterrupted time to
settle into its location and prepare itself for combat."


there is a delay of 30 min (without interruption) a unit has to sit in Hold-stance until the 'dug-in'-modifier gets applied? is that not working atm?
the "real dug in" (which takes 12-24h or longer in RL and maybe the help of engineers too) is called 'Improved Position' in the game and is a map-feature that the scenario designer had placed
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RE: novice questions

Post by IronMikeGolf »

I'd like to see a separation of a unit's survivability/protection posture and it's reaction to sighting/contacting the enemy.

"Screen" is a task to accomplish any of the following: maintain surveillance on the enemy, provide early warning, and disrupt/destroy enemy recon.

The posture related things cbelva listed above (using available natural cover) happens rather automatically at a halt of movement. The refinement of scratching out prone positions for dismounted systems and repositioning for interlocking fields of fire does take time and probably has a greater impact on the unit's lethality than on its survivability.
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cbelva
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RE: novice questions

Post by cbelva »

ORIGINAL: MikeGER
ORIGINAL: cbelva

One thing that I think is "gamey" and I would like to see improved is adding a delay once a unit enters a hold profile before they are considered "dug in"....

from my undertaning of the manual:

"Dug In – The unit has taken at least a half hour of uninterrupted time to
settle into its location and prepare itself for combat."


there is a delay of 30 min (without interruption) a unit has to sit in Hold-stance until the 'dug-in'-modifier gets applied? is that not working atm?
the "real dug in" (which takes 12-24h or longer in RL and maybe the help of engineers too) is called 'Improved Position' in the game and is a map-feature that the scenario designer had placed
I started playing the game long before there was a manual and thus, I have never read the manual. Maybe I should [:D] I had asked about this a long time ago and was told that there was no delay. I will check this out with Rob and Jim. I was not aware that the manual said that.
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RE: novice questions

Post by IronMikeGolf »

The manual says that, but the unit instantly shows Hold as its order and Posture shows Dug In. Don't know if that's what's used in the gunnery calculations, though.
Jeff
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