Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

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Wheat
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Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by Wheat »

Hail and hallelujah. Forum posters and myself have finally gotten GR to play the Germans. As he is well known for his opinionated posts, perhaps this will give him a better outlook for the problems faced by the krauts.

So far however he has failed to advance past the suburbs of Berlin.
jwolf
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by jwolf »

ORIGINAL: Wheat


So far however he has failed to advance past the suburbs of Berlin.

Well, actually, they did that already in 1939. But seriously, it will be interesting to hear his take on the German position.
timmyab
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by timmyab »

Good luck to him. He's probably just realizing how difficult it is just to make a first turn that doesn't render the Axis campaign a complete disaster before it's even started.
I anticipate a lot of posts about how hard it is to play the Axis side :)
Wheat
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by Wheat »

ORIGINAL: timmyab

Good luck to him. He's probably just realizing how difficult it is just to make a first turn that doesn't render the Axis campaign a complete disaster before it's even started.
I anticipate a lot of posts about how hard it is to play the Axis side :)

That made me laugh. And yes, he is already learning not to send your panzers into the pripyet swamps.
charlie0311
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by charlie0311 »

I will root for GR, maybe the only one, but please don't hate me!!

I keep trying to be funny but come across lame, sigh
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GamesaurusRex
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by GamesaurusRex »

Wheat has texted me to prod me for a few comments on my first foray as the German Player in the CG, so here goes.

To begin with, the experience is exactly opposite of the Russian side. The massive relative CV and almost unlimited MP reduces combat decisions to a matter of where the Wehrmacht wishes to go. This can be intoxicating, however, and leads to the first error I have made, which is to attack too many places simply because you can run over everything. This has resulted in routing too many units out of pockets which facilitated their escape, rather than destroying them. It also incurred unnecessary German casualties.

Next, the command problem is exactly opposite of the Russians. There is an abundance of good commanders, but since a 6 level is a genius by comparison to what the Russians have to deal with, I didn't bother to replace them with 7s or 8s until later, after I realized there were so many 7s+ available. This was another mistake I have made in the this first attempt which was not optimal.

The airforce is somewhat of a mystery to me because I would have thought that fuel supplies to airbases would be limited when the airbases got out ahead of the railheads. According to Wheat, this is not as big of an issues as I thought and I have been too conservative and not advanced the airbases optimally, although I have destroyed some 5000 Russian planes by turn 13.

Another error Wheat seemed to be bothered by was the use of one SS mechanized brigade I sent into the Pripyet marshes in an effort to cut off and isolate retreating Russian units. It did result in capturing more Russians, but they could have been captured anyway, if I had hadn't been drunk with CV and MP power and had been more circumspect and selective with my initial attacks.(Panzer Power is an addictive drug. [:D])

Finally, because the Panzers depend on the railheads for refueling, rail repair seems to be the real key to how far and fast the Germans can advance. The choice of which rails to repair is critical and there seem to be several ways to go about it, none of which I am yet familiar with, including an interesting trick which Wheat graciously shared with me (after it was too late to apply [:D]), but I will leave that to him to divulge, as it is his tactic. The proper way to utilize the automatic rail repair crews is something else I need to examine to see if there is a way to optimized them.

These are a few of my first impressions, but one thing is abundantly clear to me... The German side needs to have substantial initial negative game settings to logistics to keep them from overrunning the Ural Mountains by turn 14, if you want a balanced game. This is my first German attempt at the CG and even with the numerous errors I have made due to inexperience, I am nearly at the gates of Leningrad and Moscow by turn 13 and have overrun the Crimea... and this with the German logistics set at 90. When I have fully examined the rail system and methods of optimizing the repair, I feel confident I will be able to drive Wheat out of both Leningrad and Moskow with the same tactics he has shared with me. At that point he and I will be able to arrive at balanced settings.

In addition to the logistic reduction for the Germans. we are using fortification settings of 75/75. This is necessary to keep the game mobile and I'm not sure yet, but it might need to be reduced even further... we'll see.
"Real Life" is a game... THIS is war !
charlie0311
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by charlie0311 »

since i always root for the underdog, now i'm on wheat's side.

wheat,if you weren't already planning it, save all your cav, get it into corp and shock armies asap, add tk bn and sapper, stravka as command hq, and run wild, for the russians, come winter.

save up your aps, to make oh, about 100 inf corp and 40 tank/mech corp, along with the 20 or so cav corp. 100 inf corp is 2000 aps. tank/mech 800 plus 25 per tank army and 10 more or so for ldrs for the tank armies. By early to mid 43 you should have it.

You must save all the production (obviously), In my one current game Oct 42 now, i wasted way too many aps early.

And even more fun, I have been using the sturmos "judiciously" and have 6000 saved up, might have twice that number by summer 43 and better fighters too. Bye-bye panzers.

btw, not seeing why you guys want reduced forts, the sappers/pioneers with plenty of arty just blow right thru it. I think fort levels should be increased

are we gonna get any screenshots

and maybe someone could tell me how to use all those little smileys, etc. then i could be even more boring.
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GamesaurusRex
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by GamesaurusRex »

@charlie0311

Wheat and I use a HR that limits both sides to one sapper/pioneer attached to any unit except HQs (No limit on HQs).
So there is no "stuffing" units and large scale engineer use in battles requires HQ leadership rolls to be effective.
"Real Life" is a game... THIS is war !
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STEF78
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by STEF78 »

an AAR would be fun to illustrate your battle [;)]
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Wheat
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by Wheat »

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

since i always root for the underdog, now i'm on wheat's side.
very wise charlie, very wise
wheat,if you weren't already planning it, save all your cav, get it into corp and shock armies asap, add tk bn and sapper, stravka as command hq, and run wild, for the russians, come winter.
planning to hit him in the first blizzard
save up your aps, to make oh, about 100 inf corp and 40 tank/mech corp, along with the 20 or so cav corp. 100 inf corp is 2000 aps. tank/mech 800 plus 25 per tank army and 10 more or so for ldrs for the tank armies. By early to mid 43 you should have it.
well, this game is a test as it's GR's first as German. We plan to restart with the 1.08 patch.
You must save all the production (obviously), In my one current game Oct 42 now, i wasted way too many aps early.

And even more fun, I have been using the sturmos "judiciously" and have 6000 saved up, might have twice that number by summer 43 and better fighters too. Bye-bye panzers.
Now this is an idea I like!
btw, not seeing why you guys want reduced forts, the sappers/pioneers with plenty of arty just blow right thru it. I think fort levels should be increased
We feel the forts make it too much like WWI, so we reduced them, maybe too much though. I can't hold anywhere, no level 3 forts unless they dig for 2 years!
are we gonna get any screenshots
Ummm, maybe.
and maybe someone could tell me how to use all those little smileys, etc. then i could be even more boring.
I'm not telling. Some things should stay secret.
Wheat
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by Wheat »

ORIGINAL: STEF78

an AAR would be fun to illustrate your battle [;)]

We are gonna just take this one into the first blizzard. I want to see if you can get guards units, as someone, who shall remain unnamed, says you can't get guards as the russians.

We are gonna restart with the new patch eventually, and plan to take that one far into the night.
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terje439
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by terje439 »

ORIGINAL: Wheat

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

btw, not seeing why you guys want reduced forts, the sappers/pioneers with plenty of arty just blow right thru it. I think fort levels should be increased
We feel the forts make it too much like WWI, so we reduced them, maybe too much though. I can't hold anywhere, no level 3 forts unless they dig for 2 years!

Wait untill the USSR gets those sappers built. I've been up against USSR engineer values of 60...
Forts are way too weak atm, but at the same time the problem is that the USSR tends to have "spare" units, so they can build forts easier than the Axis who tends to need their forces at the front by the time it is time to build forts). So, improved forts would PROBABLY help the USSR more than the Axis anyway.
"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")
Farfarer61
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by Farfarer61 »

Interesting assessment. BTW you need in 1941,to take Leningrad, Moscow, Rostov and activate Army Groups A and B and destroy significant amounts of ARM which any competent RIS player will evacuate ahead of you or you are doomed. Doing so means you 'may' have a chance to win. The Urals by Turn 17 ? I have got to the Urals in 1943 and still lost. Having said that, you are enjoying the game, which is by far the most important.
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GamesaurusRex
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by GamesaurusRex »

We are using a HR that limits both sides to attaching no more than one sapper/pioneer SU to any unit other than HQs. This is in conjunction with the 75/75 fortification setting. It tones down the World War I effect, but you can still "stuff" HQs with sappers/pioneers, although the HQ commitment roll then must succeed to get the benefit.

And yes Wheat and I are having a blast... this game is truly fascinating I think Morvaels 1.08 patch will be the icing on the cake with the additional optional settings.

Can't wait to see the WITW. Now if I can only get Wheat to process the first move of the WITP:AE turn that I sent him weeks ago... my Kamikaze pilots are getting impatient. (In all fairness to Wheat, WITP:AE is five times the beast that WITE is in terms of complexity, so he's probably still absorbing the rules.)
"Real Life" is a game... THIS is war !
charlie0311
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by charlie0311 »

you guys will find that massed artillery also reduces forts. For example, 6 german divs with arty from 3 corp HQ, one pioneer, defeats 3 rus divs entrenched at level 3. Neva crossing Aug 41.
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terje439
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by terje439 »

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex
Now if I can only get Wheat to process the first move of the WITP:AE turn that I sent him weeks ago... my Kamikaze pilots are getting impatient. (In all fairness to Wheat, WITP:AE is five times the beast that WITE is in terms of complexity, so he's probably still absorbing the rules.)

Espesially that Turn1 is a pain (that is what is keeping me from starting a new Witp:ae game)
"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")
hfarrish
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by hfarrish »

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Wait untill the USSR gets those sappers built. I've been up against USSR engineer values of 60...
Forts are way too weak atm, but at the same time the problem is that the USSR tends to have "spare" units, so they can build forts easier than the Axis who tends to need their forces at the front by the time it is time to build forts). So, improved forts would PROBABLY help the USSR more than the Axis anyway.
[/quote]

Not my experience at all. A competent German can build row after row of level 3 forts that along with reserve panzers become extremely difficult to tackle even with Infantry corps stacked with sappers. It's not so much that any one fort can't be defeated, but the level of force and mass required to do it basically reduced one to moving one hex a turn.

In my current game we've toned down forts to 70 to experiment with it...trust me, there is nothing more boring than spending three years grinding against such a defense.
charlie0311
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by charlie0311 »

hfar,
please, please, somebody I would love to be "bored" as i believe i can generate a red army fully capable of crushing such a defense.
hfarrish
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by hfarrish »

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hfarrish
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RE: Gamesaurus Rex plays the Germans!

Post by hfarrish »

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