Air moral

The development team behind the award-winning games Decisive Campaigns: From Warsaw To Paris and Advanced Tactics is back with a new and improved game engine that focuses on the decisive year and theater of World War II! Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue simulates the German drive to Stalingrad and into the Caucasus of the summer of 1942, as well as its May preludes (2nd Kharkov offensive, Operation Trappenjagd) and also the Soviet winter counter-offensive (Operation Uranus) that ended with the encirclement of 6th Army in Stalingrad and the destruction of the axis minor armies. With many improvements including the PBEM++ system, this is a release to watch for wargamers!

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RCHarmon
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Air moral

Post by RCHarmon »

What is the best way to increase moral for air units? What do you do with an air unit whose moral has dropped to say 19 or 20. Pull it out of line? Disband?

If the Axis lose air moral is it over for the air units?
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Vic
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RE: Air moral

Post by Vic »

ORIGINAL: RCH

What is the best way to increase moral for air units? What do you do with an air unit whose moral has dropped to say 19 or 20. Pull it out of line? Disband?

If the Axis lose air moral is it over for the air units?

Its best to pull it out of the line and let them recover morale.

Other option is to provide them with extremly easy targets. Making succesfull missions without losses will increase their morale much more rapidly.

best wishes,
Vic
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RCHarmon
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RE: Air moral

Post by RCHarmon »

I am still having trouble with the Soviet airforce swarming me and early at that. If I can keep on them I can suppress them for a while, but my own airforce tires and needs rest etc. As soon as the Soviets have a breather they fill up and then the swarms begin. I know modeling an eastern front game is very hard. I just think this isn't right for the air war. At this point in the war Soviet pilots were getting 15 hrs training before they were put into combat. Correct me if I am wrong.

I have played with the editor, but my time is limited. Could a modder tell me what I need to do to get more historical results in the air war. Lower the moral or experience for new arrivals? Or what is my best course of action?
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Vic
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RE: Air moral

Post by Vic »

ORIGINAL: RCH

I am still having trouble with the Soviet airforce swarming me and early at that. If I can keep on them I can suppress them for a while, but my own airforce tires and needs rest etc. As soon as the Soviets have a breather they fill up and then the swarms begin. I know modeling an eastern front game is very hard. I just think this isn't right for the air war. At this point in the war Soviet pilots were getting 15 hrs training before they were put into combat. Correct me if I am wrong.

I have played with the editor, but my time is limited. Could a modder tell me what I need to do to get more historical results in the air war. Lower the moral or experience for new arrivals? Or what is my best course of action?

The best defense is an offense. Especially against the AI it is a good strategy to focus a substantial part of the Luftwaffe on spotting and destroying the red airforce on their airbases using bombing attacks on them. Combined with playing action cards (especially for fighters) this could keep you with air superiority for a long time.

Modding is probably best done by reducing the number of air reinforcements. The quantities delivered every 2 month period are specified in the stringlists tab of the editor on a SFType by SFType basis.

Best wishes,
Vic
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MechFO
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RE: Air moral

Post by MechFO »

ORIGINAL: RCH

I am still having trouble with the Soviet airforce swarming me and early at that. If I can keep on them I can suppress them for a while, but my own airforce tires and needs rest etc. As soon as the Soviets have a breather they fill up and then the swarms begin. I know modeling an eastern front game is very hard. I just think this isn't right for the air war. At this point in the war Soviet pilots were getting 15 hrs training before they were put into combat. Correct me if I am wrong.

I have played with the editor, but my time is limited. Could a modder tell me what I need to do to get more historical results in the air war. Lower the moral or experience for new arrivals? Or what is my best course of action?

Luftwaffe suffers from having the wrong planes and inexperienced reinforcements. By early 42 all JG's involved (JG3 and JG52, JG77 (until June/Oktober/November), 1 Group from JG53(until Oktober)) were equipped with 109F's.

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bjagd.htm

One Group of Zerstörer involved, III/ZG1 was equipped with 109E7's (which probably should have better AA ratings) for the first few months. The rest of ZG1 and the elements of ZG2 that were around of a few months had 110 E/F's instead of Cs (E's not a big difference but F more survivable, faster).

A bigger factor is probably that all reinforcements come in with an XP of only 20, so any losses erode the quality edge of the Luftwaffe extremely quickly.

A quick fix, but not tested since I haven't gotten so far is; exchange all 109Es to 109F's. Increase XP of air units, increase XP of reinforcements (last column in strings) and as Vic mentioned, try to be more aggressive.
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Michael T
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RE: Air moral

Post by Michael T »

I can't beleive errors like this appear in the first place, I mean come on 109E's in 1942!

MechFO how far away are you from completing your accurate OOB TOE etc?

I think for my next game I would like to try it.
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mmarquo
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RE: Air moral

Post by mmarquo »

It does not matter what the units/elements are called, it is what happens that counts for the game. By end June Isokron has neutered my Axis fighters and has mastered the skies. He did this by relentlessly bombing my airfields. Without air support the game degenerates into WW1 on the Eastern Front. The air units are necessary to reduce the readiness of Soviet units or or the Blitzkrieg becomes a Sitzkrieg.

There are several ways to address this in addition to what was mentioned above:

1. Luftwaffe airfields of course had AA defensive support, and Luftwaffe AA was formidable. Perhaps the air units should have ground AA capability to abstract this AA ground support of airfields.

2. Alternatively, and to better model historical reality, as a House Rule the Soviet player should refrain from airfield bombing or only be allowed to do it on very limited basis. There is a reason we do not read about massive Soviet efforts to strafe Axis airfields in 1942. Further, the tactic of attacking empty hexes to lure out the opponent should be reevaluated. IMHO only targets of value such as cities, towns and bridges should be allowed to be attacked.

I vote for option 2 as an easy fix.

Marquo
MechFO
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RE: Air moral

Post by MechFO »

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I can't beleive errors like this appear in the first place, I mean come on 109E's in 1942!

MechFO how far away are you from completing your accurate OOB TOE etc?

I think for my next game I would like to try it.


Well the Axis is pretty much finished, and I'm just about to start with the Soviets, though I'm not finding much useful information since I can't speak or read Russian.

That said, don't expect too much, in many ways what I did is just wrong in a different way, since I'm not able (or willing) to handle the subtracting and addition of all the different sub units and a fair amount of abstraction is necessary.

I also changed rather more than just TOE's, I've been experimenting with different SFT values as well. No idea how this will pan out in the long term, since I'm not getting very far before I change something and restart.

If you want I can post the file and you can use what you wish from it.



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RCHarmon
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RE: Air moral

Post by RCHarmon »

Adding some AA for both sides in an updated Trappen... would be easy enough to do. I think the game could use some more AAs, but not sure of any changes to the historical OOB. Though it seems the oob is very abstract with this game.
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Michael T
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RE: Air moral

Post by Michael T »

Well for the moment I am giving up on the game, the air war problems and OOB errors have put me off it. A shame because I think it could be a very good game. But for me having the majority of my fighter force as 109E's in 1942 is an inexcusable error. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about the air war in WWII would know that most of the Luftwaffe Fighters in 1941 were 109F's! By 1942 barely a 109E was left. It should have been fixed a long time ago. And to make matters worse your replacement 109F's and 190's come in as green horns and are no better than the 109E's. Sorry not good enough at patch 1.06.

I am finding the more I play the more errors and problems I find. Things that should have been fixed. For example I had a Mot Inf Reg that lost 50 trucks. It became a foot unit effectively. And no matter what I try it won't take up any truck replacements.

Anyway I am moving on. I hope DC3 can at least get the OOB right. Just copy the WITE OOB.
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Michael T
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RE: Air moral

Post by Michael T »

Abract is too kind. Honestly if a boardgame were published with this kind of OOB it would be laughed of the stage. The grognards on ConSimWorld would tear it apart.

My advice to Vic is if you want your game to be taken seriously put some effort in to getting your OOB and TOE's correct, at least for the obvious stuff.

I mean we still, even at patch 1.06 have two instances of Gross Deutchland showing up.

SS Wiking only having 2 Mot Inf Regiments. A cursory look at Wiki or Feldgrau or any credible board wargame will show you it had 3 Mot Inf Regs during the course of this game. It has been pointed out previously well before my time with the game. But still not fixed.
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RCHarmon
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RE: Air moral

Post by RCHarmon »

I think the mechanics of the game are good. For the market that this game is being sold to I would think more care would have been taken in the OOB. It's a small market where many of the players are keen on the details.

I am glad that it has an editor I just wish it was easier to use.
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RCHarmon
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RE: Air moral

Post by RCHarmon »

MechFO,


I too would like to see your corrected OOB (if you are still reading this forum). I am learning more about the editor, but I am not there yet.
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