Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

WWII Mod

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Flashpoint Campaigns Series >> WWII Mod Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
WWII Mod - 7/11/2014 3:05:09 PM   
Double Deuce


Posts: 1029
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
So . . . while we wait for the patch inquiring minds want to know, whose working on a WWII mod? You know you wanna ask.

_____________________________

Post #: 1
RE: WWII Mod - 7/11/2014 3:23:56 PM   
Capn Darwin


Posts: 6237
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline
I think folks are holding off on a WW2 mod until we have a switch in the game engine to drop the hex size down to 250 meters. You could try at 500m I suppose. Most fights would end up being in hex brawls.

_____________________________

11.5 beta Released!!!, Working on Origins 2016 Scenarios and Southern Storm!

Visit Our Website

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations Developer

(in reply to Double Deuce)
Post #: 2
RE: WWII Mod - 7/11/2014 4:25:10 PM   
wodin


Posts: 8558
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
I'm waiting for OTS WW2 game. Then might mod it for a different theater or Operation.

Infact OTS wargames (apart from Battlefronts CMX2 series and Graviteams games) are the only other wargame future releases I'm actually interested in.

_____________________________


(in reply to Capn Darwin)
Post #: 3
RE: WWII Mod - 7/11/2014 5:30:00 PM   
Double Deuce


Posts: 1029
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

I think folks are holding off on a WW2 mod until we have a switch in the game engine to drop the hex size down to 250 meters. You could try at 500m I suppose. Most fights would end up being in hex brawls.

True, especially early war armor and infantry.

_____________________________


(in reply to Capn Darwin)
Post #: 4
RE: WWII Mod - 7/11/2014 7:03:36 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 2068
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline
OTS? What's that, Jason?

(in reply to Double Deuce)
Post #: 5
RE: WWII Mod - 7/11/2014 8:32:32 PM   
Capn Darwin


Posts: 6237
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline
That would be us. On Target Simulations.

_____________________________

11.5 beta Released!!!, Working on Origins 2016 Scenarios and Southern Storm!

Visit Our Website

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations Developer

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 6
RE: WWII Mod - 7/11/2014 10:56:23 PM   
Double Deuce


Posts: 1029
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
Hmm, for those wondering about the editor in this game, its extremely easy and fun to just play around with (make sure you back up your original .xls files). Some stuff is hard coded such as the game dates but most data is not.

T-26 Battalion, headed west.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Double Deuce -- 7/11/2014 11:56:07 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Double Deuce)
Post #: 7
RE: WWII Mod - 7/12/2014 3:54:03 AM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 267
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
Prefer cold war/modern day. It's a genre that i feel hasn't seen a lot of action.



< Message edited by MikeAP -- 7/12/2014 4:53:38 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Double Deuce)
Post #: 8
RE: WWII Mod - 7/12/2014 4:30:57 AM   
Double Deuce


Posts: 1029
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
Yeah, I just wanted to see how easy it would be from start to finish to add a unit and weapons for that unit. Once I had the data it only took me a few minutes to create the image for the counter and enter the unit data.

_____________________________


(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 9
RE: WWII Mod - 7/12/2014 9:17:24 AM   
kipanderson

 

Posts: 295
Joined: 8/27/2001
From: U.K.
Status: offline
Hi,

Controversially... given what many here seem to wish for... my idea of the perfect setting/version of this engine is WWII but with 500m hexes ;).

The operational element in the game creates the magic. For me. If I had seen the spec for the game I would not have thought it would work. But it does superbly :). But slowing things down just a little.. and turning to WWII Eastern Front... would truly create a prefect wargame from nowhere...

BTW... one of the factors all here will have noticed but does deserve to be repeatedly highlighted is the “quality.. “ of the games production in every way...

Hope for many more releases...
All the best,
Kip.


(in reply to Double Deuce)
Post #: 10
RE: WWII Mod - 7/12/2014 10:26:41 AM   
Double Deuce


Posts: 1029
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
The 500m hexes can be a big negative for WWII but I need to really look at some ranges to see how much. I would think early war stuff is even more limiting.

I think I'll make a full blown scenario while we wait for the patch and see how it goes.

< Message edited by Double Deuce -- 7/12/2014 11:26:48 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to kipanderson)
Post #: 11
RE: WWII Mod - 7/12/2014 2:11:49 PM   
Capn Darwin


Posts: 6237
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline
Foot print of the forces would be a more important factor. It may be that 500 meters is okay if the units are company size and special units are at platoon. WW2 units generally played in close with each other. Another issue is command radius. Radios in some forces are not everywhere so C2/C3 is a bit slower too.

_____________________________

11.5 beta Released!!!, Working on Origins 2016 Scenarios and Southern Storm!

Visit Our Website

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations Developer

(in reply to Double Deuce)
Post #: 12
RE: WWII Mod - 7/12/2014 3:05:05 PM   
wodin


Posts: 8558
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
I want to see 100m to 200m in WW2 game at platoon scale. I reckon then it would be alot easier to mod a bigger scale hex than reduce the scale. So those still wanting 500m Coy scale game could still get it through modding.

Panzer Battles is 250m and 30min turns. The length of the turns and a few other engine quirks have made it difficult to get the right feel going concerning the combat.Still a good game though. I'd have done 250m 10 or 15 min turns. We walk an average of 1.4m a second so lets say 1m a sec at combat speed so in effect you'd cover the 250m of the hex in say 5 mins (rounding it off) so you could move Inf into the next hex every five mins of turn time if it was 250m hex, thats why I prefer say 100m hex so the inf will move into the next hex say every two mins and make AFV units single vehicle inf platoon though squad size heavy weapon units.



< Message edited by wodin -- 7/12/2014 4:22:38 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Capn Darwin)
Post #: 13
RE: WWII Mod - 7/12/2014 3:52:50 PM   
Capn Darwin


Posts: 6237
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline
Once you get down to single vehicle and squad/teams, you really need to be tactical at 25 to 50m hexes and a faster time scale. Basically Steel Panthers style. We are trying to stay grand tactical with that platoon or company level size and timing.

_____________________________

11.5 beta Released!!!, Working on Origins 2016 Scenarios and Southern Storm!

Visit Our Website

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations Developer

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 14
RE: WWII Mod - 7/12/2014 4:10:14 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 807
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Double Deuce

The 500m hexes can be a big negative for WWII but I need to really look at some ranges to see how much. I would think early war stuff is even more limiting.

I think I'll make a full blown scenario while we wait for the patch and see how it goes.

quote:

Foot print of the forces would be a more important factor. It may be that 500 meters is okay if the units are company size and special units are at platoon. WW2 units generally played in close with each other. Another issue is command radius. Radios in some forces are not everywhere so C2/C3 is a bit slower too.

_____________________________



I say go for it! And I agree, later war scenarios/ care with modeling command radius probably necessary. There is an online book that describes division sized engagements on the East Front that 'd be a great source for scenarios..let me find it.


(in reply to Double Deuce)
Post #: 15
RE: WWII Mod: East Front - 7/12/2014 4:15:12 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 807
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

Here is the link "Small Unit Actions During the German Campaign in Russia"

It's great reading!


(in reply to governato)
Post #: 16
RE: WWII Mod: East Front - 7/12/2014 5:24:19 PM   
wodin


Posts: 8558
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
Platoon scale with single vehicle would work at 100m to 150m hex. However 250m then platoon AFV units. Tigers Unleashed is 100m hex and platoon scale afv units and heavy weapons etc. This I find abit to restrictive and would prefer my tactical use of vehicles over 100m hex. Though it's easy in that game to create scenarios for upto 500m hex or more and turns as long as you want.

People with Panzer battles are finding the 250m hex and 30min turns is effecting long range tank combat..though it's mainly a engine issue in that game rather than a hex size issue.

Sorry rambling here.

_____________________________


(in reply to governato)
Post #: 17
RE: WWII Mod: East Front - 7/12/2014 7:39:48 PM   
Double Deuce


Posts: 1029
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
I grew up on PanzerBlitz / Panzer Leader so platoon scale for me feels best at 250m, at least for WWII.

RE: The command radius, can't that and some other national setting be adjusted in the spreadsheets?

< Message edited by Double Deuce -- 7/12/2014 8:39:41 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 18
RE: WWII Mod: East Front - 7/12/2014 9:03:48 PM   
Capn Darwin


Posts: 6237
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline
Yes, command radius and other national settings can definately be set in the National tabs.

_____________________________

11.5 beta Released!!!, Working on Origins 2016 Scenarios and Southern Storm!

Visit Our Website

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations Developer

(in reply to Double Deuce)
Post #: 19
RE: WWII Mod: East Front - 7/14/2014 7:06:31 AM   
Double Deuce


Posts: 1029
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Yes, command radius and other national settings can definately be set in the National tabs.

Yeah, poking around it looks like this game is a lot more flexible than it appears at first glace.

_____________________________


(in reply to Capn Darwin)
Post #: 20
RE: WWII Mod: East Front - 7/14/2014 6:06:16 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13127
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: governato


Here is the link "Small Unit Actions During the German Campaign in Russia"

It's great reading!





That should be a great book! It's a DOA published book. Those are from interviews done after the war with the Germans. I have the full set of those books on the shelf.

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 7/14/2014 7:08:21 PM >


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to governato)
Post #: 21
East Front Div/Rgt Scale Engagements. - 7/14/2014 10:13:00 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 807
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
One more hopefully useful link to a divisional scale meeting engagement on the East Front that I think 'd be perfect for a WWII mod:

The Chir river battles, Dec 1942

A list of related links

and then one to the 42-43 campaign, at the operational level.

Manstein's East Front Strategy 42-43

< Message edited by governato -- 7/14/2014 11:13:41 PM >

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 22
RE: East Front Div/Rgt Scale Engagements. - 7/15/2014 1:53:07 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13127
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
I have a library that is about a quarter full of Eastern Front books. That translates out to roughly 250-400 books on the subject. I haven't counted them in awhile.

Are you looking for a reading list?

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to governato)
Post #: 23
RE: East Front Div/Rgt Scale Engagements. - 7/16/2014 4:14:47 PM   
Double Deuce


Posts: 1029
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
So, looking at the editable .xls spreadhseet for Soviet National Defaults, IF one was gonna tweak it for WWII era soviet stats what settings should be adjusted and what would you set them to?

Headquarter Values
Regiment / Brigade Command Radius 5500 meters
Battalion/Squadron Command Radius 3000 meters
Company/Troop Command Radius 3000 meters
Base Order Rate per HQ per Cycle 1.75
Medium EW Orders Degrade 20 %
High EW Orders Degrade 35 %
HQ Loss/Order Loss 0.75

Hardware Quality Values
Electronics 8 of 10
Counter-Measures 7 of 10

Default Military Unit Values
Training 6 to 10
Morale 65 to 100
Local Initiative 1
Risk Profile 1

Air Force Values
Delay: Air Strike 15 minutes
Target Zone Discretionary Radius 1500 meters

Artillery Values
Delay: Pre-Planned Fire 2 minutes
Delay: On Call Fire 5 minutes
Delay: Between Fire Missions
% CB Detection 6 %
Max FSCC Age - Static Target 20 minutes
Max FSCC Age - Moving Target 5 minutes
FSCC - Min Tubes per Mission 8 subunits

Engineering Values
River Crossing Time 15 minutes
Stream Crossing Time 10 minutes
Swimming Prep Time 5 minutes

_____________________________


(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 24
RE: East Front Div/Rgt Scale Engagements. - 7/16/2014 4:50:15 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 807
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

The important part is probably the *relative* ratio with the German forces, which had much better Command and Control. My impression
is that German and Red Army elite units would have better morale than units in a Cold war campaign, but that is just a guess.
The order giving cycle should be much much longer for the Red Army, probably three times? How 'd that affect PBEM?

OK here is my silly attempt to give you some suggestions, for the values for Wehrmacht and Red Army.

I'd divide the command radius by 3 for the Germans and by 5 for the Russians



Electronics: 2 and 1
Counter-Measures: none?

Training: 9 and 2 (41-42) 3 (43) 4 (44 and later, Guard units)
Morale: 85 vs 20 (41-42), 30 42) 40 (44-45) allow for veteran/elite/Guard/SS

Air strike delay: 1 hour for the red army
Artillery: double the times for the germans, quadruple for red army

Engineering crossing time values: double at least? But both sides had good crossing capabilities given some planning.

(in reply to Double Deuce)
Post #: 25
RE: East Front Div/Rgt Scale Engagements. - 7/16/2014 5:06:40 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13127
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: governato

is that German and Red Army elite units would have better morale than units in a Cold war campaign, but that is just a guess.



I probably wouldn't agree with that. During the first stages of the war I would think morale would be high on both sides. A lot of time was spent telling everyone how much better at this they were than the other guy. So, for me at least, I think morale would be high for both sides at first. After the realities of combat set it then is when morale would take a hit. If you check I have morale fairly high for both sides at times.

Training is a different issue. This is there the WWII units should have the edge, depending on the theater and time of war. They learned their trade pretty quickly or there were no Grandkids later.


quote:


The order giving cycle should be much much longer for the Red Army, probably three times? How 'd that affect PBEM?

OK here is my silly attempt to give you some suggestions, for the values for Wehrmacht and Red Army.

I'd divide the command radius by 3 for the Germans and by 5 for the Russians



Electronics: 2 and 1
Counter-Measures: none?

Training: 9 and 2 (41-42) 3 (43) 4 (44 and later, Guard units)
Morale: 85 vs 20 (41-42), 30 42) 40 (44-45) allow for veteran/elite/Guard/SS

Air strike delay: 1 hour for the red army
Artillery: double the times for the germans, quadruple for red army

Engineering crossing time values: double at least? But both sides had good crossing capabilities given some planning.



For me there is no cut and dried numbers. It is soley dependent on unit, theater and timeframe as to which units are at what level.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to governato)
Post #: 26
RE: East Front Div/Rgt Scale Engagements. - 7/16/2014 6:00:29 PM   
Double Deuce


Posts: 1029
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
I think an excellent way to really tweak things for certain war periods would be through the Command Radius and Order Rate per HQ per Cycle settings where you would see units fight really well locally having higher, morale, training and stuff but less able to react to the big picture due to higher command and communication issues (less orders for higher command to effectively manage the overall force).

_____________________________


(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 27
RE: East Front Div/Rgt Scale Engagements. - 7/16/2014 8:38:14 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 807
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
Agree, with both posts, but one has to start somewhere and throw some darts on the board, so to speak. I also agree that values that highlight the vastly different C&C abilities of WWII armies vs 20th century and of the German vs Red Army is where to start. Then of course variability between units, year of the war, specific campaign etc etc are equally important and require specific research.

Probably one has to set a up a well researched historical engagement, lay down map, OOB and TOE and then play with the other parameters based on historical guidelines and intuition to see when/if it 'feels right'.

quote:


I think an excellent way to really tweak things for certain war periods would be through the Command Radius and Order Rate per HQ per Cycle settings where you would see units fight really well locally having higher, morale, training and stuff but less able to react to the big picture due to higher command and communication issues (less orders for higher command to effectively manage the overall force).



quote:



For me there is no cut and dried numbers. It is soley dependent on unit, theater and timeframe as to which units are at what level.

Good Hunting.

MR




< Message edited by governato -- 7/16/2014 9:40:21 PM >

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 28
RE: East Front Div/Rgt Scale Engagements. - 7/16/2014 9:09:20 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13127
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
You would want an action that has good documentation for each side. Those that meet that qualification on the Eastern Front are few and far between.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to governato)
Post #: 29
RE: WWII Mod - 7/17/2014 3:46:45 AM   
BROJD

 

Posts: 284
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP

Prefer cold war/modern day. It's a genre that i feel hasn't seen a lot of action.




Same here. There's lots of good WWII stuff out there, and I don't know how well this game would translate to WWII.

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Flashpoint Campaigns Series >> WWII Mod Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.125