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RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/7/2014 4:41:32 PM   
Icemania


Posts: 1842
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From: Australia
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Blackstork, if you have the time to do some automation between the Excel file and race files, please go ahead. However, as I've already mentioned, it's a very busy period ahead.

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 631
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/8/2014 7:48:26 PM   
SirFinbar

 

Posts: 33
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Thanks so much for this mod, really improves the AI.

I've found a nice way to play for my skill level. I play on normal, assign myself a 'Standard' system, then create the other empires manually. I keep everything random, apart from the AI's home system quality and tech level. For the systems, some get 'Standard' then others 'Great' then a smaller percentage 'Excellent'.

Seems to create a nice challenging campaign. I just really dislike games that hand the AI artificial bonuses on higher difficulties.

I also don't fiddle with taxes, to keep it fair. Promotes strategy. (I'm sure there's a ton of other exploits that I also don't use)

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 632
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/10/2014 11:24:24 AM   
Icemania


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Thanks SirFinbar. I share a similar preference to avoid AI artificial bonuses but what can be done with the AI has it's limits. Please keep in mind the Mod about text that recommends Hard as a minimum. The extra cash on Hard and above helps the AI a lot to manage areas that can't be further trimmed by Modding ... and limits the artificial bonuses.


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Post #: 633
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/10/2014 3:22:41 PM   
SirFinbar

 

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Perhaps I will consider playing on hard and above.

Am I right in thinking that you must play a pre-warp start, in order to have the improved research paths used by the AI?

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Post #: 634
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/10/2014 11:31:46 PM   
joproulx99

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 9/10/2014
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Just passing by to say GOOD JOB so far!

PS: non english dude so sorry for ruined grammar!

YOU CAN SKIP THIS PART:
-----------------------

I just recently upgraded to universe, bought this game at shadow's release, and although ive never been here(lol), i think back then i spent more time trying to mod this game AI to a point where i lost interest because of the limits and unresponding policies etc...

Basicly most of the time i had to find solutions that the ai was actually responding to through (exausting) trials and errors, instead of what I was originaly setting him to...

All in all the game seem to become more and more open and this can only be a good thing! I wish that all this modding community ask for get done by the dev team for the sake of it!

ON TOPIC:
---------
(i got Universe 2 days ago so bear with me)(or beer with me im a beer truck driver lol)

- I havent look at all ships yet but i know that humans capital ships have 2 ion defenses atm, 1 is max needed, it doesnt stack. Unless its a back up one (cough)

- I would suggest the devs to make fleets stop hyperdrive at weapon in range for standoff and very close at point blank. This IMHO is critical...I just ran a small test last night and my missile using fleet stop too close on enemy target...they SHOULD stop at max range seriously, think melee vs range dps, why would i stop melee range when im using long range tactics? make no sense lol (i come to this because id like to make the range of some weapons alot longer and it works well beside this)

+/- ON TOPIC:
-------------
Im just going to throw some ideas here that comme to mind, im still unsure if that should go to your balance weapon thread though but here it is:

Imagine gravity well stopping ships at 10000 instead of what? 2800 but make some weapons like missiles having very long range! like 15000(end game) instead of 990 (lol), you'd be able to defend a system (to some degree) with only that missile spaceport! because you make the decision to research missiles and gravity well to be a careful and defensive race. Now those race would be easier to defend but the idea of going far in space and get GW hyperdenied and outdps hard at closer range would give some very fun moments/choice.(anyway you get the idea)

I prefer the idea of weapon's role vs the early/late game idea...right now (idk in you're mod,havent test enough yet) but torpedos were just plain OP not because of dps or energy used no,just too high damage per shot compared to anything else making them remove chunk of shield that cant recover fast enough and in a sense bypassing armor rating way too much making armor a joke. Making them be all end all, oblitaring at short range and same range as missiles late game to boot(damage loss per sec, pfff my ass)

The problem with torpedos is they are magnified beams with a different name and stat and given a tech path...i think only 1 weapon should be jack-of-all-trade, beams are them and torpedos should be beams called torpedoes lol. I remember having test this to death, armor and shields were outclassed by torpedos high damage per shot, not dps or energy or anything. in a 1v1 vs long range missiles it might look ok...but in reality, in a real fleet vs fleet the torpedos will break your day.

-i suggest:
a)remove them!
b)make them join beam weapons becoming a preference path, like long ranged but less damage or something in beam tech path
c)make them a weapon that you find through exploration,and slighlty OP, possible?

-make phaser a unique path not part of beams, they have a unique role after all!

- I think some races should get locked researches, like armor, gotta fear these railgun guys since im playing x race that have none! :O
- in this line of thought we can create race specific techs, so why not abuse it to make so much more unique techs, is it possible to make a race unique armor tech but deny them the original one? if races can have multiple race specific tech it can be very easy to make all armors / shields / weapons different from race to race etc...so much potential...and work!

another thing

I think damage vs size vs energy used vs range vs damage lost per 100 vs generators energy etc..is a mess atm lol, ( not in your mod, i mean in general) who's the math guy behind this xD, it almost look as if it was purposefuly done to be as confusing as can be so its stay an enigma for everyone. I think it should be uniformed a bit more so that each value is given a ''price'' and converted to a general value/per size, then its a matter of +1 -1 system where if i chose 1 more weapon i have 1 less armor or one less engine, giving intuitive results. and since they all have same size / energy use per/second per/tech level i know the result of adding/removing a component much better etc...idk

Ion weapons need a serious buff, having to research them and all...they should compete with shield and armor

oh well i could go on and on but thats it for now :P








(in reply to SirFinbar)
Post #: 635
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/11/2014 12:06:01 AM   
joproulx99

 

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ive been doing a little test and when i set my game to max level tech, the game actually not your mod set the capital ship to having 2 area shield recharge and 2 ion defense...although you only ask for 1 in design template :(

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Post #: 636
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/11/2014 12:28:00 PM   
Icemania


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From: Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirFinbar
Perhaps I will consider playing on hard and above.

Am I right in thinking that you must play a pre-warp start, in order to have the improved research paths used by the AI?

Glad to hear it!

You can start wherever and the AI will apply whatever is left in the Research Orders as they are fairly long.


(in reply to SirFinbar)
Post #: 637
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/11/2014 12:31:33 PM   
Icemania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joproulx99
All sorts of ideas

I would recommend talking with lurci for Research Reloaded. When that is complete, and I have enough time to do more than a few forum posts, I'd like to apply the AI Improvement Mod to it (along with the unbelievable amount of material Blackstork is adding in Beyond which is already integrated with the AI Improvement Mod).

(in reply to joproulx99)
Post #: 638
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/11/2014 6:16:37 PM   
SirFinbar

 

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I envision a mega-mod!

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 639
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/11/2014 8:29:36 PM   
Jethro420

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirFinbar

I envision a mega-mod!


There's a lot of that going around... ;)

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Post #: 640
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/13/2014 8:37:31 AM   
Icemania


Posts: 1842
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From: Australia
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Hey all, will be offline completely for at least the next week and have a busy time at work for the next month. If any updates are needed I'll get to them when I can at that point.

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Post #: 641
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/14/2014 12:39:30 AM   
snowhusky5

 

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I don't know if you get this question a lot, but in the most recent version of this mod for extended universe, it seems like every race has a slower construction speed (-25%) on their native planet type, and a faster speed (+50% or +100%) on opposite types. Is there a reason for this, and if so, what? The only one I can think of is that by default the game has increased native type build speed and decreased opposite type build speed, and these settings cancel them out for some reason? Or maybe construction speed actually means construction time, so decreasing it is good?

< Message edited by snowhusky5 -- 9/14/2014 1:40:44 AM >

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 642
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/14/2014 4:14:03 PM   
Francoy


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Damn you are right!

The ColonyConstructionSpeedFactor from the races file are wrong.
0.75 should be 1.25
1.5 should be 0.75
2.0 should be 0.5

Here is a quick fix

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Francoy -- 9/14/2014 7:06:44 PM >

(in reply to snowhusky5)
Post #: 643
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/14/2014 4:23:13 PM   
Blackstork


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I've saw this before and wondered, but since i were busy and games were evolving smoothly i though it is misleading description in the game (it states bit misleading in race.txt)
Someone checked it how this affect right now? Trying to check this with Beyond Shandar Run.

_____________________________


(in reply to Francoy)
Post #: 644
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/14/2014 5:46:42 PM   
Blackstork


Posts: 802
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Hey Icemania, i confirm this is mistake, i will correct this for release of A.6 Beyong, you can take then and copy paste those strings.

Also i noted you used vanilla pictures (for vanilla races) for Extended Mod in Pedia files. they do not match Extended race art.

also Wekkarus miss string about their weapon and Energy research.

Please tell if the only related troop string you changed in 1.02 (except frieghter shrinking issue for Speed/Agility guys) is TroopGarrisonLevel ;1.5 (from 1)

thanks

< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/14/2014 8:33:43 PM >


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Post #: 645
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/18/2014 12:11:39 AM   
jarardo

 

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Does the 1.02 work with the 1.9.5.8 beta? Sorry if it's in the thread somewhere I can't find it. Would like to try the beta but not without this mod!

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 646
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/18/2014 1:44:10 AM   
PsyKoSnake


Posts: 111
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Yeah it work.

(in reply to jarardo)
Post #: 647
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/20/2014 1:31:40 PM   
Icemania


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Joined: 6/5/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork
Hey Icemania, i confirm this is mistake, i will correct this for release of A.6 Beyong, you can take then and copy paste those strings.

Thanks Blackstork

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork
also Wekkarus miss string about their weapon and Energy research.

Actually they do:
quote:

The Wekkarus also have deep knowledge of highly specialized Wave Beam weapons. This has led them to develop the potent PulseWave weapon. This unique type of beam weapon fires powerful waves of energy at targets. They focus on Speed and Agility with Energy Research.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork
Please tell if the only related troop string you changed in 1.02 (except frieghter shrinking issue for Speed/Agility guys) is TroopGarrisonLevel ;1.5 (from 1)

Yep

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 648
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/20/2014 1:35:26 PM   
Icemania


Posts: 1842
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: snowhusky5
I don't know if you get this question a lot, but in the most recent version of this mod for extended universe, it seems like every race has a slower construction speed (-25%) on their native planet type, and a faster speed (+50% or +100%) on opposite types. Is there a reason for this, and if so, what? The only one I can think of is that by default the game has increased native type build speed and decreased opposite type build speed, and these settings cancel them out for some reason? Or maybe construction speed actually means construction time, so decreasing it is good?

Thanks for the pick-up snowhusky5. I'll include the changes needed in the next version.


(in reply to snowhusky5)
Post #: 649
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/20/2014 1:51:04 PM   
Icemania


Posts: 1842
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From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Francoy
Here is a quick fix

Cheers

(in reply to Francoy)
Post #: 650
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/20/2014 2:26:13 PM   
Blackstork


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Old 0.75 is actually 1.33 because decreasing cost by 25% is = increasing speed by 33%

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Post #: 651
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/20/2014 3:42:46 PM   
PsyKoSnake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork

Old 0.75 is actually 1.33 because decreasing cost by 25% is = increasing speed by 33%



Why 25% = 33% it make no sense.

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Post #: 652
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/20/2014 4:46:05 PM   
Blackstork


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PsyKoSnake


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork

Old 0.75 is actually 1.33 because decreasing cost by 25% is = increasing speed by 33%



Why 25% = 33% it make no sense.



It makes if you wont cut and throw away some critical words i added to the math (i.e. saying that "mass of 1 elephant = masses of 2 giraffes" is not meaning that "1 = 2")
Decreasing cost by 25% of 1 means you increase speed by 1.33%

X * 0.75 = y where y is modified cost, x original cost
Icemania's design was to decrease cost (he though those numbers are cost mulptiplies according to how he filled them), but he mistaken and the numbers he modified is actual construction time multiplier

for that case with multiplier if we take y = x/0.75 = x * 1/0.75 = 1.33 * x

If design was to create modifier for construction cost (As Icemania's quite transparent intention in files he made), but in result it appears to be contruction speed, this is only correct mathematical way to calculate construction cost modifiers into construction speed modifiers



< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/20/2014 6:04:55 PM >


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Post #: 653
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/20/2014 5:44:23 PM   
PsyKoSnake


Posts: 111
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork

quote:

ORIGINAL: PsyKoSnake


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork

Old 0.75 is actually 1.33 because decreasing cost by 25% is = increasing speed by 33%



Why 25% = 33% it make no sense.



It makes if you wont cut and throw away some critical words i added to the math (i.e. saying that "mass of 1 elephant = masses of 2 giraffes" is not meaning that "1 = 2")
Decreasing cost by 25% of 1 means you increase speed by 1.33%

X * 0.75 = y where y is modified cost, x original cost
Icemania's design was to decrease cost (he though those numbers are cost mulptiplies according to how he filled them), but he mistaken and the numbers he modified is actual construction time multiplier

for that case with multiplier if we take y = x/0.75 = x * 1/0.75 = 1.33 * x

If design was to create modifier for construction cost (As Icemania's quite transparent intention in files he made), but in result it appears to be contruction speed, this is only correct mathematical way to calculate construction cost modifiers into construction speed modifiers




Thanks for the explanation

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 654
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/20/2014 6:31:14 PM   
Blackstork


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You welcome :)

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Post #: 655
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/21/2014 1:39:21 AM   
Icemania


Posts: 1842
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The Shakturi research colonisation costs and colony construction speeds have been corrected to align with Francoy's Table. That said, I'm not sure if those numbers are used by the game unless you make the Shakturi playable e.g. the design templates are still not used unfortunately.

0.75 should be 0.67 i.e. 1/1.5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork
Also i noted you used vanilla pictures (for vanilla races) for Extended Mod in Pedia files. they do not match Extended race art.

Thanks Blackstork now fixed for 1.03 which I'll release next weekend.

A question for all ... are there any other fixes needed?


< Message edited by Icemania -- 9/21/2014 2:39:55 AM >

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 656
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/21/2014 4:56:33 AM   
Blackstork


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

0.75 should be 0.67





I do not understand where you take this math? you wrote 0.75 for original planet type for all races, and assumed it is building cost multiplier, but since it is building speed multiplier it should be 1/0.75 = 1.33 building speed in order to provide same result as 0.75 building cost


< Message edited by Blackstork -- 9/21/2014 5:57:48 AM >


_____________________________


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Post #: 657
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/21/2014 1:14:12 PM   
Icemania


Posts: 1842
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

0.75 should be 0.67



I do not understand where you take this math? you wrote 0.75 for original planet type for all races, and assumed it is building cost multiplier, but since it is building speed multiplier it should be 1/0.75 = 1.33 building speed in order to provide same result as 0.75 building cost



Apologies, to clarify, the old 1.5 should be 0.67 (Francoy stated the old 1.5 should be 0.75). Not that it makes a material difference either way.


(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 658
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/21/2014 1:21:39 PM   
Blackstork


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Ah, yes, its correct, 1.5 should be 0.67 (i made 0.66) due to relationship between contruction speed and cost. Francoy's math have slight mistake,
It's same as 0.75 should be 1.33 etc.
If you need the "correct" math (its not matter so much, as you said) you can have it from Beyond race files. :)

_____________________________


(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 659
RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.02 Release) - 9/21/2014 2:17:30 PM   
PsyKoSnake


Posts: 111
Joined: 1/25/2012
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Here is the modified version. With 1.33 and .66 :P
Wanted to start my game as soon as possible :P

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by PsyKoSnake -- 9/21/2014 3:18:28 PM >

(in reply to Blackstork)
Post #: 660
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